Ralph Burns and John Moran are giving you an exclusive sneak peek into Tier 11’s Data Suite, designed to solve the long-standing issues of attribution and data integrity in digital marketing. They explore how this tool leverages edge servers and CDNs to clean up and optimize data, offering marketers better visibility and accuracy for decision-making. They point out the pitfalls of traditional tracking methods, share insights on ad spend optimization, and discuss the implications for small and mid-sized businesses navigating a complex ad ecosystem. Their conversation is laced with examples that explain the impact of precise data in scaling businesses effectively.

Chapters

• 00:00:00 – Welcome to the Party: Ralph’s Big Data Reveal
• 00:01:00 – Oh, Privacy, You’re Killing Me: The Data Crisis Unpacked
• 00:01:36 – The Secret Sauce: Tier 11’s Data Suite (You’re Welcome)
• 00:02:29 – John’s Here, Let’s Get Serious (Kind of)
• 00:05:15 – Attribution: The World’s Most Annoying Puzzle
• 00:08:14 – The Edge, the Warehouse, and the Interface Walk Into a Bar
• 00:13:14 – War Stories: Real Clients, Real Wins, Real Chaos
• 00:18:19 – Tech Nerd Alert: The Edge Servers Explained
• 00:21:05 – Tag, You’re It: The CDN That Knows Everything
• 00:25:45 – Lost in Data Limbo? Here’s How to Get Out
• 00:28:12 – First-Party Data: The Cleanest Dirty Laundry You’ll Ever Own
• 00:30:35 – Performance Max Is Lying to You (But It’s Okay)
• 00:32:20 – Smarter Decisions Start Here: Data You Can Actually Trust
• 00:34:22 – Autopsy Time: How Campaigns Succeed (or Crash)
• 00:35:38 – Performance Max vs. Reality: Spoiler Alert, It’s Complicated
• 00:36:20 – ROAS Dreams and Brand Nightmares
• 00:37:43 – Cold Traffic, Warm Wallets: Campaign Tips That Work
• 00:38:38 – Brave New World: Non-Brand Search Campaigns for Beginners
• 00:43:54 – Feeder Strategy Gold: Insights You Didn’t Know You Needed
• 00:45:24 – Q&A: Your Burning Questions, Our Smug Answers
• 00:54:30 – Black Friday: Scaling Without Losing Your Mind
• 01:00:05 – That’s a Wrap: See ya!

LINKS AND RESOURCES:

• Tier 11 Jobs
• Perpetual Traffic on YouTube
• Tiereleven.com
• Marketing Performance Indicators™ Checklist
• Schedule a Tier 11 Discovery Call
• AdCritter for Agencies
• Agency Freedom Live – December 2024
• Mongoose Media
• Perpetual Traffic Survey
• Perpetual Traffic Website
• Follow Perpetual Traffic on Twitter
• Connect with Lauren on Instagram and Connect with Ralph on LinkedIn

Thanks so much for joining us this week. Want to subscribe to Perpetual Traffic? Have some feedback you’d like to share? Connect with us on iTunes and leave us a review!

Mentioned in this episode:

AdCritter for Agencies

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Read the Transcript below:

How to Solve Your Digital Marketing Attribution Problem Once and for All

Ralph: [00:00:00] Hey folks, Ralph here with something that could seriously upgrade your top of funnel ad game. If you’ve been a PT listener for any period of time, you know that we talk about top of funnel all the time and how challenging it is for you to get quality top of funnel clients or leads or customers and then convert them typically at bottom of funnel.

Ralph: Well, TV advertising is one of those areas that we haven’t discussed here on PT all that much, but our friends over at Ad Critter have figured this stuff out. They do connected TV ads, so you can be everywhere without spending millions on Super Bowl ads, but they pair it with display retargeting, so you’re hitting the audiences with a complete approach.

Ralph: You reach them. Then you remind them and then you collect the revenue. It’s a strategy designed to deliver and let me tell you, it really works. We’re testing this at tier 11 and so far the results have been [00:01:00] very impressive. Now with AdCritter, creating custom audiences are so easy. You don’t need to reformat files, you don’t need to mess around with complex spreadsheets.

Ralph: You just upload any file in any format and you’re ready to go. And the match rate is awesome. They make it easy to connect with the right people, the actual people that have interacted with your ads in the past, and then allow them to naturally flow through your funnel so you can convert them at bottom of funnel.

Ralph: Now, the folks at AdCritter, we twisted their arm to get us a great deal for you, the PT listener. They are offering a special deal for y’all, and that is you can get a 500 campaign credit, meaning 500 in free money to test out the platform. Or dollar for dollar matching on any TV campaign up to five grand.

Ralph: Imagine the impact of that match. Spend five grand, they’ll add another five grand in display. That’s a huge opportunity here. Now it’s only offered to you. The PT listener head over to add critter. com forward slash PT and check it out. [00:02:00] Hello and welcome to the perpetual traffic podcast. This is your host, Ralph Burns and the founder and CEO of tier 11.

Ralph: So glad you could join us here today. Today I am very excited. We’re rebroadcasting another tier 11 live that we did just a week or so ago with a sneak peek at a tool that you’re going to hear a lot about in the coming year because I think it is that transformative. It’s one that we’ve been working on for over a year now, really excited about it.

Ralph: We have tested it internally on The vast majority of our clients and are starting to see some incredible results, incredible results, meaning it’s lifting the veil on all the unknowns, the unattributed traffic that has been probably frustrating the hell out of you. Over the course of the last couple of years, ever since Apple dropped its ATT prompt in the summer of 2021, it’s gotten worse in the last 24 months.

Ralph: The [00:03:00] problem that we’re solving here is data. And the lack of data and the obfuscation of data by privacy concerns, by cookie blockers, by Ad blockers by GDPR, by CCPA, by all of these privacy restrictions that are coming down the line. In fact, 42 percent of the U. S. is going to be covered by some kind of privacy restriction in this year, and it’s actually going to increase.

Ralph: In 2025. The problem right now is data. You can’t see it. You don’t know what your users are doing. You don’t know what your visitors are doing. Well, the solution is here because the solution that we have discovered is the linking of three diverse marketing tech tools called the edge. The data warehouse or the warehouse and the interface interlinking three separate technologies to create a solution that we are seeing almost eliminating entirely [00:04:00] that problem of unknowns, unattributed and direct traffic, as well as all that SEO traffic that They say it’s SEO, but it’s actually coming from other sources.

Ralph: And what we’re talking about here is the tier 11 data suite. Now you can, you can get this solution through the two other Martech platforms that we’re going to be mentioning in today’s episode. However, the full solution is only through us at tier 11. We do only integration between all three of these Martech solutions.

Ralph: However, I’m not going to get into all the tech right now. We’re going to get into a pretty heavy here in today’s show between myself. And John Moran. And by the way, like we haven’t even released this to the world as of yet. We’re planning on January 1st launch for this product. But the point is that there is a solution around the corner here, which I think you’re going to be really, really excited about.

Ralph: We’re super excited about it right now, especially for the results that we’re seeing and John’s going to be talking about some of that. With both his own businesses, he’s probably one of the most skeptical people when it comes to any [00:05:00] attribution software out there. We’ve tried them all. We’re investors in a lot of them.

Ralph: Data and the lifting of the veil on all of that unknown traffic. Is one of the biggest problems and one of the biggest solutions. Many, many companies have been trying to solve for years and years now, and we finally have a solution. So we’re going to get into that solution and how you can maybe even do it yourself in your own solution, unless you’d rather come to us at Tier 11 and have us solve it for you.

Ralph: So without further ado, here is a sneak peek at what’s coming on down the line with Tier 11 Data Suite with myself and John Moran. Enjoy.

You’re listening to Perpetual Traffic.

Ralph: Hey, good afternoon, John Moran. I love doing these every week. They’re a lot of fun. I record two podcasts every single week, and then I do these. And now we’re actually throwing [00:06:00] these onto Perpetual Traffic, and they’re some of our most popular episodes. Go figure. Hey, how about that? Because we’re actually talking about real stuff

John: that’s really working.

John: It’s important to the people, it’s important to give the people what they want. I almost said give the people what we want, which is the same thing. Well,

Ralph: what people want apparently is stuff that we have, so that’s kind of cool. And then, you know, I’ve yet to be retargeted or like targeted for any of our YouTube ads, though, which I know are chock full of these episodes.

Ralph: So every time I turn on YouTube, I’m like, where am I? Where are we? I know we’re

John: doing a little bit more proactive than remarketing. We’re finding new people, but that’s

Ralph: probably it. Because I already know about tier 11. I already know about this. So exactly. We measure by NCAC. So that’s good. So I’m

John: not an NCAC.

John: Like you don’t want me as a customer. I’m already a customer. You are always on the site and you never convert. So you’re out of the audience.

Ralph: I’m going to have no money whatsoever. That is absolutely not the case, [00:07:00] especially

John: on Ralph is kind of in the negative because we spend more money for you and it’s true.

Ralph: It’s probably all break even at this point. So we’re, we’re kind of excited about something that we wanted to do a little sneak peek on today. Are you as excited as I am about this?

John: I am so excited because this is a extremely important topic since like last year at least, and it’s extremely important that people get a way better understanding of the technical structure of this because It’s one of the legs of the stool.

Ralph: Yeah,

John: that’s how important it is. If you don’t understand this, if you can’t leverage it, or if you’re misinterpreting data because of it, this should make it a lot more clear to everybody, no matter where you are in your journey as your for your professional career

Ralph: for sure and how this ties back. Not to give our marketing team credit because they didn’t want us to do this, by the way, like, well, we’re having a big launch in this.

Ralph: You guys are now blowing it, but this is we’re leaking. This is a leak. It’s a leak to a private [00:08:00] audience here. And, you know, just between us kids, not like anyone’s going to see this, but they probably will. The point is, is that this comes back to a lot of the things that we’ve discussed on every single one of our lives.

Ralph: Is that you always go back to the data, you go back to the MPIs, you go back to the marketing performance indicators and CAC specifically being one of the big ones. But how do you get that data so that it’s clean and you trust it? How do you get those MPIs and understand them so that you can make, not data driven decisions, actually data derived decisions, however you want to put it, like you’re making better decisions because you have better data.

Ralph: And a lot of people say they have better data, but a lot of them are full of shit.

John: Yeah, I keep hearing saying, like, we’re gonna take your data, throw it through A. I’m

Ralph: like, wait, hold on, hold on, stop right there. But this is actually something that we’re now seeing. Like, we are seeing visibility where we had previously had not been able to, and it comes back to the data being clean, the data being pure, the data being accurate and highly [00:09:00] effective.

Ralph: And then you and our creative team, for example. Can now get together and say, oh, well, this is the stuff that’s actually working to get to the MPI, get to the goal for the client. So we call it the tier 11 data suite. And we’ve been working on this for quite some time, it’s a partnership between really sort of three different martech technologies that we have been able to sort of seamlessly integrate together are brilliant.

Ralph: C. O. O. Ryan Hodges wrote the integration that no one else has. We have exclusivity to it. That’s the key to this whole thing. That’s the I. P. That’s the killing. Almost like a functional patent. Basically, it really is. So cool. Do you want to explain it? Or do you want me to explain it? I know we have a cute graphic that we are constantly improving upon.

Ralph: You might not see this on our site, but this is sort of one of our, this is, well, I was about to say this is our first iteration, but the iteration of this is probably like the 17th or 18th iteration of it. I’m excited to [00:10:00] show it, to see it and talk about it and explain how it works here, because this is the stuff that’s now driving our decisions when it comes to how we manage our clients and how they get their results and all the stuff that we talk about here on the show, because it’s funneled through this whole thing.

Ralph: So without further ado, John Moran introducing Tier 11 Data Suite for the first time anywhere. Hey,

John: so the data suite, it’s multi step, it’s much different. Then probably what everyone is used to understanding because basic understanding of data suite or data in particular as well, platform fires a tag on my site and tells me what happened.

John: And that’s true. That’s kind of like the basis. That’s pretty much how Google works. Um, a lot of times that’s how even third party attribution companies work is you’re using their tag, even like heat mapping and screen recording. It’s usually just a tag you put on your site and it fires. And while that’s good, two years ago.

John: That’s been heavily [00:11:00] deprecated in the last about 720 days to the point where all of these interrupters, privacy settings, consent mode, cookie blockers, ad blockers have whittled down to what Shopify has even said on their own data. Shopify’s data is 55 percent accurate in the United States, 45 percent accurate in Asian territories.

John: That’s the only 22 things that they published, essentially, and I’ll give you a correlation and a comparison so that you have a better understanding. Well, what about to present if you’re to log into Shopify’s back end and go into the marketing tab and look at their attribution model, that attribution model, even if you said, like, first click and last 30 days.

John: That attribution model will show approximately 55 percent accuracy if you’re in the United States and if you’re marketing to people in the United States, and it’s almost by law. The reason why is there’s been essentially a removal of third party cookies. So purchased historical traffic is now illegal basically from all the big providers [00:12:00] and being able to piece together a person’s journey through multi steps.

John: Has failed due to the implementation of the tech. Mostly it’s because the implementation of the tech is being the engine that that tech is run on is how fast is your website. That’s one of the biggest crux of this whole thing. Someone comes to your website, it fires the tag, they change pages, it fires the tag again.

John: What people don’t quite understand is that even Nike themselves takes 4. 1 seconds to load a page. And that’s fast. That still failed the Core Web Vital. And this is Nike. This is not Now, anybody small like this is the big boy and at four or big girl, big people, whatever it is, that is a 4. 1 seconds for largest contentful pain, which means the page takes 4.

John: 6 low. This is just the homepage. If you go into a page that’s more image heavy, more video heavy, things like PDPs where they have social proof, it gets even longer. A lot of times your average largest contentful pain for like a small business is anywhere between like eight and 16 seconds. And what [00:13:00] this means is that if you’re putting a tag.

John: on your site for attribution, and that tag is deployed towards the bottom of the HTML. That is going to take whatever seconds it’s going to take for that thing to fire. And if it does not fire, It’s going to lose the person and it’s going to leave it up to fingerprinting even within one visit. What this means, if they get to your site and they’re on page one and the tag fires, it’s like, good, we see Ralph here.

John: Ralph goes to page two. And it goes to page three, but it didn’t, he wasn’t on page two for four seconds. It’s ads. Ralph’s gone. Now we’ve got this new person here. Direct. Let’s everyone, let’s welcome direct direct. There’s nothing to do with Ralph. It’s Ralph. Yeah. Ralph’s gone and directs here. And that happens all the time.

John: And nobody knows who direct is, and no one knows who direct and now you log into GA4 and half the people are direct. You log into sometimes Northbeam, Triple Whale. It’s like unattributed direct. Like, don’t worry, throw on [00:14:00] our AI. Yeah, I know. Don’t worry, throw on our AI. And we’ll tell you what we think it is.

John: That’s a very expensive decision. And then even Meta is like, Hey, you know what, we’re gonna use model conversions. We don’t really know, but here’s what we think happened. Exactly. And here’s what we think happened. And not only that, here’s what I think happened. Let’s throw that into a multimedia omni channel mix.

John: So now you’ve got a whole bunch of uninterpretable sources coming from different points in their journey, showing up randomly inside the channels as brand new to the site. Give that seven days and a hundred thousand users. And at the end, it’s kind of all blended together and half of it’s unattributed and you’re like, well, shit, I don’t know what to do now.

John: I have half my data is accurate. Imagine your kid coming home with a report card and it says all C’s. Some are A pluses, some they’re failed. That’s what we’re doing here. Also, all C’s. It’s like, well, shit, you could be a student all the time. Or you could be, you could be going to summer school. I don’t know.

John: Did you flunk history or math? I don’t know. And that’s your business, right? But [00:15:00] all C’s. It’s, it’s, it’s exactly what we’re doing. It’s like our businesses, man, I hope it’s good. Like that’s it. So I hope we’re the A plus student and I hope I’m not going to summer school, which is a, you know, an FBA loan or an SBA loan to keep myself afloat.

John: So that’s why. Tier 11 we’ve introduced and built and have collectively started to use and see good success. Something called the data suite. I have to head and share screen again. Sorry, I know they need to plug that in. They don’t pay me to be a producer on this show, by the way.

Ralph: I didn’t cue you up. I know we’re talking about it, but here we are.

Ralph: Giving our marketing team a heart attack in so doing, but that’s okay. By the way, this is not

John: rehearsed. I’m just

Ralph: winging this here. I

John: understand it real well, but I have not presented this.

Ralph: So basically the problem is the unknowns, the direct, the unattributeds. You have no idea what these people have done.

Ralph: And half of it is your fault because your site’s not fast enough. Because your site isn’t fast enough, but also there’s pop up blockers. There’s ATT prompts. [00:16:00] There’s all these other things that sit on the browser at mode, consent modes, like all of that, that’s blocking all of that from happening. And this is going to get worse and worse and worse.

Ralph: And we’re going to have to rely on the platforms to model. Or the third party attribution systems to model the data to a certain degree or just not show it at all because they don’t know what the hell it is. They don’t know who Ralph was. Ralph now becomes direct. John

John: becomes unknown. Your return customers are now direct new because they don’t know where they were.

John: They don’t know who they were. Your old customers, your old visitors sometimes are half new now. So it negates the NCAC.

Ralph: Like you don’t know who that new customer is. You don’t know. And your ECPNB is 50 percent off. Yeah, now that’s effective cost per new visitor. That is one of our 15 MPIs, very important, the cost that you use in order to figure out whether or not you’re getting, are you getting new people to your site?

Ralph: Because that’s why people hire us, to get them new customers at an affordable price, makes sense for their finances. Right? Mm hmm. It’s usually how

John: [00:17:00] growth happens. And, you know, can you afford to scale that, that, that network? This is going to seem like a big sales pitch. It’s not. Half of this is understanding how to, it’s understanding the source of data.

John: This is also the

Ralph: reality that we live and this is not going to get

John: any better unless you have a solution for it. So this is how things should run. So here’s your user. This is Ralph. Ralph, I’m now a female, is a very, exactly, with a nice, nice laptop sitting crisscross applesauce because Indian style is not easy.

John: I’ve never sat like that in my entire life.

John: It’s funny. I’m actually sitting like that now. That’s my niece. How’s my back? I’m old. Anywho, so user journey starts with visits various platforms. So user Joins one of the apps, they’re logging into Instagram and they say, you know what, I’m going to hop on Instagram and I’ll look around and I’m going to click on an ad and now that ad, that’s where this portion comes in that usually everything else breaks is when the person clicks on an ad and [00:18:00] they go to the website, typically they go right to the essentially origin server like they’re going right to the website.

John: And this is where this thing breaks here. That’s simple. Just going from an ad click to the actual server itself of where your website resides is where things break your privacy tools, cookie blockers, browser based blockers have no effect on data suite. All this stuff is passed back through, which we’ll go through in a moment.

John: But essentially, Yeah. Absolutely. It is all being failed at that point in time, and that’s why even Shopify can’t give you accurate data as to what Shopify sees in their publicly traded, massive entity. They are still off.

Ralph: A lot of people don’t really understand exactly how the Internet works. Your website is housed on a server that is called the origin server.

Ralph: So when you click on an ad in this case, or you go to a website. That origin server calls up that HTTP and then delivers it into your browser. That’s how the internet works. So

John: was that accurate? Basically, [00:19:00] yeah, and it’s it’s traffic for a reason. You’re literally going to someone else’s server. It’s like going to their store.

John: Now, if your, if your front door opens in four and a half seconds, you’re like, yeah, I want to leave this door. Like, that’s kind of the thing. Right.

Ralph: What

John: if you went to

Ralph: Costco and it took you four seconds for the door to open? Would you actually walk in like one, two,

John: that’s a long four seconds. Yeah, or the greeter is for a second delayed.

John: Like you walk in for a second center. Like, do you have your I d like, yeah, now directs here.

John: We don’t even know if this person’s a customer. Anywho, that’s actually really good analogy. I’m gonna use that later. I like that. Here’s the edge. So this is the edge. Now what the edge does is essentially saying before you get inside of Costco. Before you go through and bypass the greeter is on a 15 second delay.

John: We tagged you in the parking lot. The greeter has got binoculars on the roof of Costco says Ralph’s here. Ralph’s back. I know where Ralph came from. Exactly. We see him. We know where Ralph is. So it tags you before. Pardon my French, but your [00:20:00] site bugs it up. That’s big. Yep. It’s big because of all those blockers that are on the site.

John: Exactly. Blockers on the site, blockers from the client, uh, from the client, but the user. The cookie blocker, the app blocker, they have all that stuff. Basically, we get to like ATT prompts, right? I was 14. Exactly. We get to tag them before that all becomes a thing. And Allison says, how does service that dragon play into your data suite?

John: We dump a lot of money a month into this. I won’t give the name out there. I don’t want to ever slander anybody, but they use another company that does data suite type of actions and says, would this be something that would eliminate that with your data suite? The answer is yes. This is the difference.

John: Elevar, other companies like them, or you have other companies. Edgemesh is another company that does this. There’s another one. Who is the other person that does this? There’s Elevar, Edgemesh, obviously, Nordbeam, TripOil. Then you have, who is the other people that, there’s one other one that’s escaping my mind.

John: But all of them have different ways of deploying tags, right? And edge mesh is one company that uses obviously an edge tag [00:21:00] feature. They do things a little bit differently for different reasons. There’s just going to be more for site speed purposes, not attribution tracking. The data suite uses edge. That is the edge tag that we have.

John: That is similar. Other companies, those things like Alibar, Northbeam, those type, use a website coded that’s fired. It’s fired from the server side, but it’s prompted by the website. It’s not necessarily an edge server that’s going to a data warehouse that is separate. So the way that the tag deploys is extremely important because it’s like you have a amazing tag.

John: That’s your engine of your Ferrari, but the Ferrari doesn’t have wheels like you can have amazing tagging capabilities, but it’s can’t go anywhere. It’s not fast enough to actually deploy, and so that’s kind of the analogy. There is the way that things are deployed matters from that visit for the first time for the next.

John: Years, really, if it fails at the beginning, it will never propagate later correctly at the end. So the [00:22:00] edge tag, this is that where it’s like, okay, someone’s on their way to the store tag, and then that goes into the data warehouse. The data warehouse then feeds information into the interface, which is wicked.

John: And that’s where you see the data that looks like this. So the edge tag that’s coming from the data warehouse, when a person comes to the site and says, Okay, this is the new visit percentage. We know that Google ads is running performance max, which is why only 5. 5 percent of these people are new. And it costs you 33 every single time there’s a new visit.

John: This is important. As shit, because if you look at Google ads, it’s like 2 clicks and these things are getting 400 row as no, that’s not true. This is the health of your company. Yep. I’m only, we’re only spending 30 grand out of 225, 000. So about 10 ish percent, because we know that this is never going to scale.

John: And I would waste a hundred thousand dollars in six months of my time because I didn’t know that, and I didn’t know this. And that is coming from the data warehouse because the edge tag is so accurate. It’s like we tracked 95 percent of these people before. [00:23:00]

Ralph: Let me just explain this part of it. So the edge, people like, well, where did you find the edge?

Ralph: Well, the edge has always existed. There’s something called a CDN server. Remember when people say, well, content delivery network, CDN server. So for those of you who are not techie, like when somebody says, clear your cache. Basically, it is a server that is located closer to where you are proximity wise.

Ralph: There’s 7, 000 of these things all over the world, okay? And CDNs have been around forever. This company that we use, this MarTech company, figured out a way to use that pre existing technology in a very affordable way, but to help marketers. With this very issue, this technology has existed for years, 20 years plus, and they’re backed by the largest CDN on the planet, which is the most secure on the planet, HIPAA compliant, all these other sorts of things, we’re not going to [00:24:00] get into all the details here, our marketing department is going to be able to explain that at some point in time, the point is, it’s like this tech has existed For years and years, this is just being deployed in a different way to give marketers greater visibility, lift the veil on all those unattributed, all those unknowns, all those directs.

Ralph: She didn’t know what the hell you were doing with those because they were primarily model data. Now it doesn’t get rid of all of them, not all of them. You still have a small percentage of it because nothing is perfect. But the point is, is the visibility is pretty darn good. It is almost perfect. I don’t want to oversell it.

Ralph: It’s

John: actually, Oh, I’m going to oversell the shit out of this. Cause this is my company here. And I’m going to go, I’m going to try to see, can I, uh, 10, 19, 20, 23. No, this is Traveloo. Oh, Traveloo. My, yeah. Anywho. So I’m going to do this. I’m going to go back to this here in a moment, but yes, it’s not perfect, but I actually, you know what?

John: Now I’ll just, I’ll spoil it. So here’s the full funnel model. This is using full funnel attribution. It says, Hey, [00:25:00] organic had 141, 000 of your revenue out of 789, 000. Now, this is my personal brand. I have never run anything, but a little bit of Facebook remarketing, which is why this thing is 0. 5 percent new visits, man.

John: That’s really accurate. The revenue says, Hey, 141, 000 revenue from organic. And then we said, wait a minute, that can’t be possible. We don’t have organic traffic. We’re reselling a luggage like Samsonite. No one knows who travel is. That’s never come from anywhere else. But the return traffic is like, it can’t be right.

John: So they say, okay, well, what if I do click date first click only. So now using the same filter since 10, Says, alright, remember like all of your organic? Yeah, that wasn’t actually, you know, 150, Took 150, 000 of organic traffic and turned it into 4, 000 because it didn’t start there from first click. And this is why I kill brand campaigns for people all the time.

John: Like last week’s case study where I was like, hey, we took this one campaign and we just wiped it out. That was spending two thirds of the cost and two thirds of the revenue. We just [00:26:00] wiped it out. Save two thirds of our ad spend that week’s 10 G’s and one week, no, 15 G’s in a week. Didn’t lose a dime.

John: That’s because of this. We’re good marketers because we understand this is how we believe things are working. And then this proves it. So 150 grand down to 4, 000, it’s not a hundred percent, but 98 is pretty good.

Ralph: The other example that we have, it’s like it eliminated. If you compare side by side and we’ll leave this for our marketing team to show this, but we compare GA four versus.

Ralph: Wicked Reports, like Wicked Reports is the interface. We tried to build our own interface. John, I spent 150, 000 wasted money. Angela will always laugh at that. Back when we were just printing money and we were doing crappy work, actually. This is years and years ago. But Wicked Reports is, is A lot of people have tried Wicked Reports before.

Ralph: And they didn’t like it because it didn’t really have any of the stuff that you just showed. It’s completely transformed from my perspective. Like this is, [00:27:00] we obviously have a stake in that company. So I have a slanted viewpoint for sure. However, for the mid sized small market individual, forget enterprise North beam can take the enterprise.

Ralph: They’re a good company too. I’m not going to say anything bad about those guys. Of course, I’m an investor there.

John: It’s great. It’s not our audience and not the people that are on

Ralph: the call, but that team does really good work. However, this is the stuff that’s relevant to you. Wicked Reports has completely transformed.

Ralph: And now with this, which only you get through data suite, by the way, because they don’t use edge tag. They don’t use the edge, they gather their data in some other way, which we’ll get into a later date. But the point is it’s like this data that’s coming in because it’s being caught in the data warehouse.

Ralph: It’s now first party data.

John: Yep. And I know we have about five minutes left before we want to get to some, some questions. And I have a little bit of update on some strategy stuff, but I do want to just at least kind of. Go through the rest of this. If it’s cool, when it goes into the data warehouse, this is where everything shoots back out of this.

John: This is the [00:28:00] central hub for everything. This feeds the data that you’re going to look at in your reports. This also passes it back to the ad platform so that the ad platform has additional data. Now I’m, you all know, I’m a big proponent of in app measurements bullshit, right? I still am, but this feeds more of that.

John: So it’s not that 50 is now 70 and it’s a perfect 50 is actually probably 100 in reality, but I have my in app data go from 50 to 75. I’m 50 percent closer than it was the actual true height. Excellent means faster optimizations. It means that my slanted T row as a T. C. P. A. Goals that are using half data targets because it is only half accurate can be a little bit more accurate.

John: Now, all of the information that I need feeder strategy is gonna be twice as fast because it knows where those people are coming from. So it knows, okay, that person actually came from that campaign because data warehouse said this is a return user. Let’s go after them. So all of this is yeah. Going back a couple of years when everyone really liked meta and Google ads conversion tracking before it all broke down, [00:29:00] this kind of brings it back.

John: So it’s like if you were one of those people that got kicked in the proverbial gonads about the iOS, this alleviates that a lot of us were in 2021 was a horrible,

Ralph: well, actually, the end of 2021 was a horrible year, we lost like half our

John: customers like it was a bloodbath. Yeah. I mean, all Meta really did was remove this stuff here.

John: Yeah, basically, it’s what they did. They had an interface with a good amount of data. They’ve removed that. Now it’s like we’ve rebuilt Meta. Then also this thing can be sent to the CRM tool. So HubSpot, if you have Shopify, all that information that is being sent to the platforms, not only for ads, but the platforms for measurement, leaflet.

John: low lead quality, source of leads, reporting that comes to your C suite, quarterly results, if you’re a publicly traded company, what you’re actually going to produce is numerous returning revenues. You don’t lie to your investors. All of that can be set right to you for a low, low cost of hire us. But, uh, so all that data though, makes your data much more accurate.

John: So this centralized hub goes back to the platform to make it more accurate. It goes back to the interface to tell you [00:30:00] what the truth is. It goes back to the e commerce platform. So your sales team is going to be better. Better, you know, equipped to manage newer opportunities more effectively. All of this stuff is, is now much more.

John: Streamlined and accurate and easier to make very good data driven decisions off of and I will say data driven because this is the data warehouse and it’s the most overused cliche thing that you can probably say data driven. But this is using. A higher amount of more accurate data for you to become a good marketer again.

John: Yeah,

Ralph: it restores your ability to actually be data driven. Everyone says their data driven. So we say data derived, but we’re still working on that from a marketing standpoint. But the point is, is like data driven usually has an element of I just don’t know. I don’t care how great you are. Like there’s always going to be that.

Ralph: That’s the reality. This largely solves that

John: almost 100%. That’s a big deal. I mean, I challenge [00:31:00] anybody to go into GA4 right now and try to get the direct channel, be less than 5 percent of your overall visits. Use anybody you can. I don’t care. Exactly. That’s the bad part though, is that’s where it’s like, I was pushing all of the MPI so much.

John: And even killing conversion tracking because I’m like, it’s all useless. Yeah, it is. It’s all useless. This is now okay. Like I have twice the amount of more accurate data. I’m like, even if you don’t pipe it back into the platforms, I’m still not looking at the platforms for metrics. I’m looking at, I’m using the marketing platforms as marketing platforms.

John: Don’t use it for measurement platform. No, that’s all I would say. But this will tell you if what you’re doing is right or wrong. It’s great. Every

Ralph: platform, every tool has its place. Like we say, in app ROAS sucks. It does. However, we still do use it as I need a benchmark. Absolutely. I need it for it. I need it for

John: my bidding strategy models.

John: Yeah, a hundred percent. I wouldn’t trust any of the NCAC data.

John: I wouldn’t trust any of that. I try to exclude my customers. It’s like, I found them again. I’m like, [00:32:00]

Ralph: I found the same ones over and over again. Great. Look at me. When in fact they’re like, well, why do I have the same amount of revenue? And it looks like you’ve got 400 percent ROAS. This week, like that’s still like at the crux of everything that we’re trying to

John: achieve here.

John: You want to see something? What’s something scary? And what’s something like absolutely horrific but funny as hell? I would love to. Watch this. This is the part where everyone should be like, aha. Now this makes sense as well. I’m getting a new verse returning big reveal. Here it is the big reveal. As soon as Google loads all right, here we go.

John: Ready and action. This is watch how stupid Google is with matching said. Hey, Google. This is a performance max campaign for new customer acquisition only and new customer acquisition. We have this thing set for at least like since mid October, only bid for new customers. It’s like, you got it. We uploaded our customer list, everything, yada, yada, yada.

John: And we’re like, awesome. [00:33:00] And I said, all right, let’s spend 332 after the new setting. What happened? Cool. It’s still there. Like it’s still We have 6, 600 in existing customers. And this thing actually, we already launched a standard shopping campaign, which is why these are reducing. But they, we said, Hey, only bid for new customers says great.

John: Out of 518 that are known, 125 of them are returning customers. We got them back for you. What the hell? Like new customer only. It’s like, don’t worry. We got the same exact amount we did two weeks ago. And that is because it doesn’t know it can’t match. It has to go and do enhanced conversions later on to find out.

John: Guess what? I still fucked you over. That is why when people are like, well, John, why don’t you use new customer acquisition setting? Try it. It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. It does whatever it wants anyway. It doesn’t matter because the data in this account isn’t using data suite. So right now it just says I’m going to market whoever I want to.

John: And then I’m going to find out later that. There’s a whoopsie daisy, but ROAS is great. So you’re happy. Yeah.

Ralph: Yeah. Well, I mean, they have to make themselves look [00:34:00] good at some point. I mean, you know, it’s funny as if they didn’t, I pay more. It’s true. That’s counterintuitive. Isn’t it right? Unbelievable. All right.

Ralph: Well, there’s our small reveal for today of the things we’ve been working on. Uh, we talked about this back in the desert in November, and you were like, are you serious? Do you actually really have that? I’m like, yeah, I think we do rise like, oh, yeah, it’s gonna be great. And then we all of a sudden saw you and I were like, holy shit,

John: we actually

Ralph: really

John: do have it seen anything that can reattribute organic traffic to 95%.

John: And that’s because of what I learned there. I know, right? Because of what we learned there, that’s the reason why I did this. That’s the knowing Francesca’s. Yeah, this is the same thing with Francesca’s. This is the same thing that we said, okay, that we can actually take all of our branded traffic that we spent 36, on.

John: And I’m like, let’s just pause it. Just kill it. We don’t need it. Just save us 35 grand there [00:35:00] and the broad campaign here that spent 6, 000 more, which is 500 percent more because they started to scale it up all of a sudden just lands with a quarter million. In two weeks, and that’s because we know that all of these users here with this data, it’s not needed.

John: It’s because these are all people that we know. When you count the people that are coming organically, they’re googling the brand name. Why? They didn’t start there. So don’t overspend on those people because you will still get it anyway. This. Being able to see this saved us $33,584 in 14 days. If that’s not a use case for knowing exactly where people are coming from, I don’t know what is.

John: That’s insane. But that is mer and c ecp, nb. Everything right there just is. It allows us to utilize this, all the NPIs, all those beautiful

Ralph: NPIs, all the things, which by the way, if you don’t have the the, the download yet, go to 11 com NPI for crying out loud. Download the damn thing. Give us your name and email.

John: That’s all you need to be [00:36:00] like, it should be like gospel now. And I expect John Moran’s dog and my disciples to all read the 15 commandments that are on the but we’re actually building an entire

Ralph: page on this with your videos. You did videos on each individual one. We’re like each one of those home. So each one of those bastards.

Ralph: That’s right. Yeah, that’s right. Yep. You looked good by the way. All those videos. Excellent. Anything you want to show updates for things that we’ve talked about in previous shows or that was just kind of it, or do you want to go right to questions?

John: You know what? I’m dissecting. I’m doing campaign autopsy right now for this week.

John: Next week, we have two feeder strategies where Pmax beat standard shopping. And the other feeder strategy where standard shopping beat PMAX and two separate reasons why and which one would apply to you. So I’m going to have more to explain on that where it’s like, which one should I do at what levels?

John: Be like, well, if you’re this type of client, do that. If you’re that type of customer or client, do that. Or I’m just going to call you a client. But if you’re this type of business person, advertiser, whatever it is, the ways to which to implement feeder [00:37:00] strategy. Both of them had a better performance combined, but the targets and the ad spend and which one to implement had so many other external factors that I’m building out the, if you are aligning more this way, do that.

John: If you’re aligning more that way, do that. But both of them are crushing it. It just depends upon which one earned it. And those are extra anyway, factor. So teaser for next week, that feeder strategy for e commerce, at least for performance, max and standard shopping will have horrible performance or great performance if you follow.

John: Or if you don’t follow these rules, you’ll be 50 50. So this will give you clear insights as to, okay, I should implement it this way. Portis brand.

Ralph: Very cool. Can’t wait to see that. Yeah. Before we get into questions, I have a question for you. So this came up on a discovery call this week. They’re like, yeah, I don’t need any of your Google help and using performance max.

Ralph: And it’s working great for me. I want to talk to you guys about matters. What would be your answer to that?

John: How do you know? It works great.

Ralph: It looks great. You say it

John: well, it looks good.

Ralph: Yeah, it looks good. Is it actually helping anything looks

John: right?

Ralph: [00:38:00] Yeah. And it’s like, well, how many of those, that 900% ROAS on your P max is actually new customers or just Google

John: recycling old ones?

John: It’s like how many new and returning users are there? When they say don’t know, I say, well, how many new and returning customers are there? And then they say, I don’t know.

Ralph: So you install Terra 11 data

John: suite. You can now see that. Yeah. And if everything is off of roas, why don’t you just run nothing but brand?

John: Why not sure, why not get 10,000 roas? Fuck, great. Take it to the moon. Great. Bye bye bye. Bottom line. But that’s the always the questions. That’s usually, if I say, if that is what you’re basing it off of, then why not just run brand? Well, because you know, I need to do some proactive marketing. I agree. Now, how much of that is that yourself know the answer?

John: Like if, if your

Ralph: competitors are bidding on your name, keyword, brand, all that? Yeah, absolutely. You need to have that. Mm-Hmm, . Hundred percent. You should have it anyway no matter what. It should always be included,

John: but a lot of times performance Max is 80 percent of your ad spend to those people. Yeah, and that’s what it is.

John: Is if to say [00:39:00] the row as is good, then your response is usually then why not just run brand and do you do also say, well, the response to that is, well, I know I need to do some cold traffic product marketing and I know I want to use blah, blah, blah. Excellent. Can you tell me what yours is? Well, is it 1 percent or 99?

John: Because that is the, I have a C could be an A plus could be an F. I

Ralph: don’t know, I don’t know which class you actually got the A or the F in, still, I’m concerned. I would be the A in history and the F in math, but anyway, I got a C average. Hey, it doesn’t matter, that’s all my parents really care about, right?

Ralph: I’m a C student!

John: If I got a C, I was golden, as long as I didn’t get like, too many D’s or an F. Yeah, I couldn’t fail, that was the other thing. You actually can hop into report editor and find out how well your cold traffic campaign is doing. That’s what we did for the mushroom people that we then launched standard shopping, got went from a half a percent conversion rate to a 12 percent conversion rate in a week.

John: That’s pretty tremendous.

Ralph: You know, it’s [00:40:00] funny though, here we are C students running these. Businesses and,

John: but I have more data, so I get to bring the textbook to my

test,

John: you know, the answers to the test. That’s the key. I got the answers written in the inside of my water bottle. Like I did in high school.

John: I’m like, I think we should, I think, I think we should reduce that a bit over there. Wow, John, you’re a genius. Oh,

Ralph: my God. So true. I’m

John: not smarter than everybody. I just have more data.

Ralph: Let’s just hope our kids don’t watch this tier 11 live. Okay. Because as far as they know, I have an average and all. You know what’s funny?

Ralph: I tell

John: my kids, get good grades. You don’t have to learn it. You don’t have to like it. Just pass. Just get good grades. Just get good grades. Should we go into questions? Let’s go into questions.

Ralph: Let’s do it. All right. Jose V is here. Hey, Jose V, a long time listener, watcher at what budget level do you usually recommend for e commerce businesses to start non brand search campaigns?

John: Yes. So it always, again, get those MPIs top of mind always a hundred percent. That’s Yeah. First thing to start, go to the MPI [00:41:00] download, look at things like Nkaki, CPNB, learn those intimately. That will then inform you of your budget because right now, when you’re looking at what budget level do you usually start with, uh, non brand search campaigns for e commerce, number one, I usually don’t, I usually start just standard shopping first.

John: Or if you have no omni channel traffic, performance max, it could work great because you don’t have any existing brand or existing customers or existing traffic to go after to mess everything up. Performance max can work great. Non brand search hard. It’s always more expensive than e commerce than shopping.

John: Usually by about 40 percent more. Your CPC is from search to shopping. You’re 40 percent more search CPC than shopping. But here’s the difference. And Jose, I think this is something that I always ask people to take off their data hat, take off their Google Ads hat, put their marketer hat back on and watch.

John: Here’s something great. Jose, I’m going to assume you sell Crocs. Okay, I know you don’t, but I’m going to [00:42:00] assume you sell crocs. All right, here’s what I am going to tell you of reason why I don’t start with search. A lot of times I won’t even really run search for the first year for e commerce. Here’s the reason why.

John: If you are selling crocs and let’s just imagine you’re not the crocs company. This is your ad here for your website that you sell crocs. These are the ads that you’re also having. That you’re also running that are selling crocs, I have to go and click on this ad and you pay Google 40 percent more for me to be able just to find out what they look like.

John: Are they on sale? Who is it by? Do you have any sort of discounts? Do people like it? What’s your name? And what’s the price? I can find all of that out before you have to pay Google. But if I click over here, you have to then pay Google for me to know what does your product look like and how much does it cost.

John: So that’s why I like shopping ads absolutely first before search ads. And yes, you can do extensions. You can do a sale extension. You can do a price extension. You can [00:43:00] do an image extension for sure. But I can’t do that nine times in one search. Croc scan here, here, here, here, here, here. See what I mean? So always run shopping because if you’re just starting off as a new company, Start from your bottom up, go to the people who are looking for your product first, that are not googling your name and then say, am I getting a good click through rate on that picture, that title, that price and that, you know, social proof and my brand name and everything.

John: And if so, if you get a good click through rate, you start to get good sales. Max that thing out before you then jump into search too, because you want to go to all the people that know they want to buy the red one for that’s quite a good price right now. And then you move up to say, I know the people I want to go sell Crocs do that search shopping versus search is I want the blue Crocs on sale shopping is I think I want Crocs.

John: Or sorry, search is, I think I want Crocs. That’s upper funnel. Cool. Now, for a budget, I would actually just bake in to keeping a top line MER at a small spend. Assuming you already have shopping up and running and everything’s good. So don’t pay 40 percent more to test your business. [00:44:00] Pay very little to test your business.

John: And then adding in search is just easy. I don’t know, start off. I’m already spending a thousand bucks a day. So let’s just add a hundred, see how it works. It becomes a much less important. It makes sense.

Ralph: Let’s get to, well, it’s good that John Moran’s dog and John Moran’s disciple are both here. Thank you very much for showing up boys.

Ralph: I assume their voice, uh, Paul, welcome. Uh, let’s say John Moran’s dog actually has a question. How do you optimize Google ads for a DTC apparel client when the best selling category has a 50 percent return rate compared to a 10 percent for other categories?

John: Yes, and I think we had this question last week and I didn’t really, I don’t know if we got to it, was return rate for people return the product or when that product sells people return 50 percent of the time to buy other things.

John: Um, I, I don’t know if we got to that, so please add it in the chat as soon as you can. And I’m going to come right back to it. We still have 15 more minutes to add it in and we’ll jump as soon as I see it or someone else sees it, we’ll jump right back into that one. Okay.

Ralph: I am being asked to [00:45:00] say, check out our poll in the comments about our data suite and be sure to respond.

Ralph: I, we have handlers to make sure that we follow the rules. Please everyone do it. We have laws here, John. I don’t wanna get whipped again. 11 laws. Please do it. 11 live laws. How about that? In addition to the other laws, barely keep those straight. Law

John: participation, everyone participate. The law of MPIs thou

Ralph: shall use thine MPIs.

Ralph: I think one of our comments actually, he says disciples. Doran Disciple actually said that. Yeah. Hallelujah. He says, thank God that people are, people are listening. Alright. How does server side tracking play into your data suite? Did you answer this one before?

John: Yeah, we said this one lie, but yes, this could eliminate the need for that company.

John: Yep. Yep. We

Ralph: tested them too. They looked good, but didn’t cut it. John Moran’s dog. All right. He’s not just a pretty face there. When do you recommend combining feeder strategy with PMAX for e commerce clients? And when should it be avoided? [00:46:00]

John: That’s going to be a whole episode next week, but I’ll give you a couple of quick tips like he knew what you were, what you were going to be presenting next week.

John: I know. Right. If you’re already running PMAX, add standard shopping, obviously. And if you’re already running standard shopping, add PMAX. Now, the difference is if you’re running standard shopping and you’re adding in PMAX, standard shopping should remain 80 percent of the ad spend. On the flip side, if you’re already running PMAX and you’re running sta and you want to add standard shopping, standard shopping should actually be 50 percent of the ad spend.

John: The only variable that this differs on is if you have a high amount of meta traffic. You’re going to need to increase your standard shopping faster than your performance max to see if you can see a global scale, and that’s what we’ll be covering next week. All right, so

Ralph: stay tuned for that. Make sure you do check out the poll in the comments, however, and make sure you respond on Datasuite.

Ralph: It’s the first time we’ve revealed this to the world, so I feel like, you know, this group here. Like they’re, they’re the [00:47:00] insiders. They really are. Yeah. They’re not just to say you’re, you’re our

John: test audience because it’s like, you’re more advanced. So I’m like, okay, they don’t get it. You

Ralph: guys don’t get it.

Ralph: That we’re really screwed. Uh, all right.

John: I definitely explained something wrong and this must be ever clear or something.

Ralph: That’s not water. That’s just straight vodka right there. Uh, it’s just, it’s going to get really, really bad. John, John Moran drunk next Friday. All right. Tyler C says, would you run the max click feeder strategy for brand?

Ralph: What’s your logic? There

John: actually, no, I spend the least amount of money on brand as I possibly can. Brand is always the last step here. It is. I have a really, really great mental exercise for everyone to go through and you need to be completely honest with yourself. Otherwise it doesn’t work because cognitive dissonance is what we have to overcome here, which is exactly why we spend so much money on brand.

John: So it’s a hard thing to ask yourself to do this, but check this out and be really honest with yourself from this one use case. Here we go. You see an ad on meta. And it’s for the best new granola bar you’ve ever had in your life. It’s upside down. And you’re [00:48:00] like, that looks cool. The best new granola bar you ever had in your life.

John: And it’s upside down. So it’s called Valley nature, not nature Valley. It’s a different brand. Never heard of it. So I know, right. It’s new. And so you click on it, go to the website. You’re like, man, this looks really, really good. And then you leave. And you see a YouTuber marketing and maybe you don’t click on it and then you say, you know what, I see another meta ad and I was like, okay, that’s pretty cool to have a really cool flavor that I like, and I’m going to go, I’m going to, I’m going to.

John: I’m going to go buy it point where you said, I’m going to go buy it. That is the decision to then Google search the brand. You do not end up just randomly Google search the brand and say, well, shit, I want to buy it now. No, the decision as to which, what you want to buy happens before the branded search.

John: So how much money do you have to spend in order to make sure you capture a person? Post decision. And that’s why branded row as doesn’t really mean that that [00:49:00] campaign did anything that is the result of how many people made the decision before taking that action. And before you spend the money, you’re going to get the money anyway, high chance.

John: So don’t spend all of your asthma there. That is, you’re, you’re basically saying these people already bought, sold and are enjoying the product. They just haven’t paid me money yet. You know, that’s how much money you want to put into that last step. So just understand that the buying decision people make happen before they Google the brand.

John: So spend as little as you can there. That will keep your NCAC totals low.

Ralph: Okay. I beg to differ on one part of that. You are using an impulse buy as your example. However, if it is a larger buy, The inverse relationship or the direct relationship, or that’s not inverse, the direct relationship to research and gathering information based upon the size of the investment.

Ralph: You just bought a car. I’ve been actually going to the jeep website. I’ve been googling jeep going there, checking out that car. I am not ready to buy it yet. I am still in [00:50:00] information gathering mode. So there is some value to branded search to a certain degree for people that are in the consideration phase, which is what I’m in right now.

Ralph: So how would you respond to that?

John: Well, you’re not close to your buying decision yet because you were not going to, are you going to buy it off of jeep. com? I’m probably going to go to the dealership. Maybe this is a bad example, but it’s just one that just came to my head. What are you going to, what are you going to Google next?

John: Uh, dealers near me Jeep. Okay. And whatcha gonna do, when you find a dealership, it has some jeeps, you’re probably gonna click on that ad, right? And then you’re gonna be on the, on bobs jeep.com and you’re gonna say, holy shit, that got the blue one, the, the X package. Everything that I, I want. Yep. I’m going to take 24 hours and just think about it.

John: And I’m going to talk to my spouse and what are you and your spouse going to do? Make a decision, right? Could be. Yes. Could be. No. Well, let’s say you make your decision to say, you know what? Let’s go check it out. What’s the next thing you do? I go to the Google Bob’s Jeep, Google [00:51:00] Bob’s Jeep again, and find out directions to it.

John: Right. Exactly, because you made your decision, and you made your decision to move forward with it, and then you Google the brand. So this isn’t about Jeep. com, this is Bob’s Jeep. But also, now, you heard it from word of mouth, so you’re more organic traffic than anything else, but you weren’t influenced by ads.

John: But yes, but still, when you Google search a brand name where you’re going to go and pay that person money, typically, you make your decision before you Google. You do not Google Bob’s Jeep for some reason and say, I don’t want a Jeep yet, I don’t even know if I like it, but holy shit, I’m making an appointment.

John: No, you always make a decision

Ralph: before you do that. My question back to on brand though is if you have a higher consideration, let’s say thousands of dollars versus a couple of dollars, do you end up spending more on branded search just as a general rule based upon the consideration factor of the product

John: being purchased?

John: Not necessarily. I will actually spend enough to not lose out on every click. And that’s where I say, don’t try not to overspend. And that’s when that Francesca’s we didn’t lose a dime and we gained 22, 000 clicks [00:52:00] at 98 percent less CPC because we stopped the overspend. We still captured everybody. But we didn’t spend as much.

John: And that’s where the people will make most of the time, 80 percent of the time ish, making their purchase decision before they Google the brand to then go and buy it or go to Amazon, that’s why Amazon follows everybody else’s marketing. They make the decision and they type in Amazon, but don’t say this is 80 percent of my strategy.

John: And that’s the overspend. Okay. I think it’s just a mindset shift

Ralph: more than anything else.

John: Oh, and we got to like hammer this out, which I love this kind of

Ralph: stuff. We’re repeating it over and over again because people have got to get this shit. Like, all right. Tyler C, he gets it. Are there feeder strategy case studies I can check out?

Ralph: That’ll be

John: next

Ralph: week. Probably next week.

John: Yeah. Unfortunately, the feeder strategy case studies, like you’re pretty much just going to get here, unfortunately. But that’s because it’s being, we’re building it in real time and testing it in real time. So you guys are actually like sometimes here. No joke.

John: You’re actually everyone on this channel sees it before even like leadership at tier 11 does. Yeah.

Ralph: John, John just stepped out of [00:53:00] the lab before he actually came here, but he changed out of his lab coat, took off his safety goggles, which I’m sure you wear when you’re in there. No, seriously, this is the place.

Ralph: We’re testing this out. This is why you guys got, you know, that the sneak preak. Uh, sneak, sneak, sneak preview, uh, sneak peek, uh, St. Waters, a little gin right here. Uh, a sneak peek of, uh, tier 11 data suite. So anyway, so you’re getting really super cutting edge. Yes. Make sure to vote. On the poll about data suite in the comments section.

Ralph: All right, Tyler C for the feeder strategy in the conversion campaign. Are you targeting an audience site visitors or relying on Google algo to establish familiarity?

John: No, I’m actually doing only Google algo because I don’t want to necessarily target the site visitors as an audience. I want them to do that on their own, but if I take a tag that has been filled up with a bunch of meta users, I don’t really want it.

John: I want the tag to come from fresh Google users, and the match rate between a [00:54:00] Google tag and Google tag is much better than a meta pixel to Google tag. So if you pre build it, you’re going to get a whole bunch of meta pixels. Users there, which is good, but that would be a feeder strategy between Meta and Google, not Google to Google, which is like standard shopping and P Max.

John: Got it. Makes sense. Mitch Barnum,

Ralph: our newest member here. Maybe he’s been listening. I saw him a couple of weeks ago. Thou shall use the MPs. I said it was John Moran’s dog who said that it was Mitch Barnum and said it. Brand for the win. Just kidding. Bread only for the win. Yeah, baby. All the ROAS. All the ROAS, all the goodness.

Ralph: You look fabulous, Mr. Agency guy. All right, LinkedIn user. I don’t know who a LinkedIn user is. Hi there. Which tool are you using for Anonymous? Yeah, this is basically an unknown. This is an unattributed right here. Unattributed question. Oh my God. Where’s Wicked to tell us who’s joining our lives? That’s it.

Ralph: We need to find out who this person is. Which tool are you using for optimizing your feed? Thank you, John.

John: Yep. So it’s interesting. You’re going to have a hard decision made coming up in this year or two. So if you [00:55:00] haven’t looked at the YouTube affiliate program that is being released in beta right now, highly recommend you go and check it out.

John: YouTube affiliate, what it means that it’s going to, Google is going to open up the floodgates to anybody that has a YouTube channel to simply go and select products from your catalog that they can autonomously put on their uh, YouTube channel to go try to sell without you even knowing it. And then you have to pay them your commission and you get to set the commission.

John: So you’re like, Hey, if anybody comes to my YouTube channel and buys my products from your YouTube channel, I’ll pay you 25 percent and that is gonna be an open, no holds bar. Everybody can be an affiliate if they wanted to. The problem is you only get that through content API, which is the Google and YouTube app instead of Shopify.

John: If you use data, if you watch, if you use optimizely, you will no longer be eligible to join that YouTube affiliate program. Changing feed management tools suck. So before you decide If you’re going to be choosing one or the other, see if you’re going to want to be a part of that YouTube affiliate program.

John: Cause if you say, Hey, you know what? That’s something I could probably could do them in the future. Just go with the content API with Google YouTube app. If you’re like, no, I’m never [00:56:00] going to need affiliates to buy my product. I really like data feed. Watch. That’s my, one of my favorite ones. They’re great.

John: They should be a sponsor of the show, I think, actually, her perpetual traffic. I’m actually talking to Magdalena right now, so. Oh yeah, that’s right. We should connect. I got an email inbox, I got an email from her inbox, from her in my inbox right now that I can get back to today. We’ve used

Ralph: them for years.

Ralph: They’re, I think they’re great. All right. They are. Nice cap, Ralph. Yes. PBR for the wind. It’s a Friday, by the way. All right, Joey, our buddy here. When scaling for black Friday, do you scale a full budget spread out across the whole month? Or do you save some time to eject at time of the sale?

John: I actually reduce that time of sale almost like the day of really a lot of time.

John: That’s going to be like the branded traffic and that kind of stuff. Very little bit, a very minority amount of people are looking for like last minute gifts and deals. And that’s really expensive. My opinion is you start a week before your time lag and you scale up to as high as you possibly can afford until like the day before day of the black Friday sale.

John: And then. [00:57:00] You can, if you’re more impulse buy, keep it high during the result. But a lot of times what you’ll find is that the people that are purchasing are new to the site 4567 days ago, so you don’t have to spend it a bunch. You can do a really good job actually reducing by about half and getting 99 percent of what you were going to do.

John: But you can save a lot of profitability that way. Cool,

Ralph: got it. Thanks for the question, Joey. By the way, we’re getting close with Joey’s. That referral from Joey. So appreciate that, pal. Hey, uh, money with Mark. Look at this handsome devil off topic. I love the stat. Oh, it is Movember after all. But what would lead?

Ralph: What would a legion Google as strategy look like at a high level? Yep.

John: Okay. So I would use a feeder strategy on search. So use your exact match max clicks or manual CPC. They combine that with the T row as or TCPA broad match using. The same exact campaign just cloned with those two changes. Then I would use a DSA campaign at 20 percent of your ad spend using the dynamic ad targets that are [00:58:00] also overlapping with the same landing pages that your broad match and your exact match search campaigns are also using.

John: Make sure 10 percent of your money is allocated towards a I would need to do a phrase match or potentially exact match brand, but unless you have like such a unique name that you can broad match it and no one else is going to have like flubergaster. com like, it’s just like nothing that’s going to overlap with anything that you can use broad match should be fine, but that would be my kind of like first four things to start off with.

John: Got it. Makes

Ralph: sense. Powell, as far as I know, a new watcher here. How do you still, how do you deal with the situation when PMAX feed only with high ROA still blocks the display of standard product ads, manual

John: CPC? Uh, I use a low T roas. It seems to be really aggressive, so if you have a P max feed only and it’s doing really, really well, I will go down to like a 20, even a 10% T roas.

John: Is that a standard shopping campaign? And I will double the ad spend compared to the p max. Usually just launches it to the moon. Okay. He says max click settings with a large max CPC does not work well. Max click’s you really can’t do. I mean, you can set up max click’s bid cap, but I [00:59:00] would run this thing on a low T roas or a high TCPA, have it be smart bidding and have it.

John: Be really aggressive. What that does is it basically does the same thing as performance max does. But that campaign says I could spend twice as much. And so it earns a better ad rank. Now, if you’re, you should have your account be in November or sorry, in October, where Google rolled through all the accounts is okay.

John: P max no longer takes priority. You might be lagging behind, maybe, but that has worked in every account that I’ve tried it. Got it.

Ralph: Dylan. Yes, we are going to explain CDNs way more. But we’re just giving you guys a sneak peek here and trying to make it as, uh, easily digestible as possible. You’re absolutely correct.

Ralph: Static files. Yep. We’ll get more into that. In other shows, especially when we have marketings sign off, we started to jump the gun here. A lot of people don’t realize it’s, yeah, it’s not instantaneous, right? I know. Yeah. It’s speed of light. Really? I mean, it’s not instantaneous. Nothing’s fiber optic. Yeah.

Ralph: Um, did you eat the flowers? [01:00:00] From that jar, John, I don’t know. This is an inside joke with Ollie. This is a very important. Oh, that’s it. Yeah. It’s the bouquet of flowers. This is

John: actually the, this is actually the flower water with plant food. It’s like my protein shake. Who needs protein shakes when you have like flower water.

John: I grow into a big, beautiful flower. That’s it.

Ralph: It’s going to start sprouting flowers on the top of his head. All right, Tyler. See, we only got time for like one or two more questions here. Is there a point to testing feeder strategy for non brand campaign targeting an audience like a member’s audience?

Ralph: I’m thinking no, but want to hear your

John: take is a point. Oh, is there a point to testing feeder strategy for non brand campaigns? Oh, yes, you absolutely could. Now you’re going to have to clone those campaigns and target both of them. Don’t leave one on observation because otherwise it just spikes out like crazy.

John: My opinion though, for audience, if it’s not a known audience. Be very weary of how Google classifies an audience right now in Q4. Everybody is tagged with Black Friday, Saber Monday shopping and Christmas shopping, even if they’re like Jewish, just because they went to a website, had the hat of sale. Like it doesn’t mean they’re actually even interested in even Christmas.[01:01:00]

John: So just be very mindful. Jewish people shop on Black Friday, Saber Monday. No, I was saying Christmas shoppers, like that’s what’s funny is like because they visit websites, Google’s like, Oh, you went to a website that had a Christmas shopping sale. So you’re on there. You’re like, no, I just wanted shoes and they just happened to be running.

John: So the audiences are just more like their correlation, not causation. So be very mindful. The person that bought a drum set for their five year old was a gardener. Did they buy it because they’re Gardner? No. So that’s the thing. Just be very, very mindful. And if it’s not, if it’s your own audience, that’s not really feeder strategy because obviously you’re not trying to find new people.

John: Got it. So just be mindful of that first. Makes sense. Just so people know

Ralph: Hanukkah actually starts on Christmas this year. You believe that doesn’t really, isn’t that strange? Yeah. My wife’s Jewish. So she’s not really Jewish. She’s Jewish.

Ralph: That’s funny. Yes. Uh, tier 11 can confirm. He did eat all the flowers. And I think we actually got to all of our questions here and [01:02:00] congratulations. The stashes all year round from money with Mark, but that’s, that’s amazing. Anyway. Thank you everyone for your questions. We’ll be back next week. John’s going to have a big reveal on some more stuff coming out of the lab.

Ralph: And, uh, yeah, we’ll probably have a few more things on data suite as well. You heard it here first. This is just the intro and the basics. Just the sneak peek, you know, the leaked preview. That’s basically what it is. All right. It’s like my only fans. I tried to leak it myself. It never works. You know, I got to see your OnlyFans account.

Ralph: All right. Thank you so much. It’s just me with flowers. Just you with flowers. Flower water. Yep. All right. Well, everyone have a great weekend. Thank you so much for all your questions, all your participation, and we will talk to you next Friday on Tier 11 Live. See you, everybody. See ya.

You’ve been listening to Perpetual [01:03:00] Traffic.