Ralph Burns and Lauren Petrillo reveal seven proven upselling strategies to dramatically boost your new average order value (NAOV) and customer lifetime value (LTV). Using real examples from the beauty, CPG, and supplement industries, they break down how to effectively implement pre-purchase, mid-purchase, and post-purchase upsells—including bundling, subscribe-and-save options, thank-you page offers, and value-driven incentives—without disrupting the customer journey. You’ll learn how brands like Amazon, Apple, and Dollar Shave Club use upsells to increase profits by 35% or more, and how to apply these same tactics to your business in time for Q4. Whether you’re an e-commerce operator, digital marketer, or service provider, this episode is your upsell playbook for adding more value, converting smarter, and scaling revenue fast—all without selling “a bunch of crap.”
Chapters:
- 00:00:00 – Welcome to Perpetual Traffic: Let’s Talk Profit
- 00:00:26 – What Is nAOV and Why It Changes Everything
- 00:01:47 – Q4 is Coming—Are Your Nets Fixed?
- 00:04:45 – Unlock More Revenue with Strategic Upsells
- 00:04:55 – The Cross-Sell vs. Upsell Showdown
- 00:06:17 – Real Upsell Examples That Actually Work
- 00:15:38 – Why Subscription Upsells Are Profit Goldmines
- 00:19:51 – Incentives That Get Customers to Say “Yes!”
- 00:21:22 – Beauty Brand Deep Dive: Mascara That Converts
- 00:22:14 – What Makes a Great Cross-Sell Strategy?
- 00:22:56 – Bundles That Boost AOV Instantly
- 00:23:42 – High-Impact Upsell Techniques You Can Steal
- 00:24:47 – Overcoming Common Upsell Roadblocks
- 00:26:06 – Inside Tier 11’s Client Wins
- 00:28:12 – Use Popups for Pre-Cart Upsells? Yes—Here’s How
- 00:34:22 – The Art of Post-Purchase Upselling
- 00:38:30 – Final Takeaways to Maximize Your Profit
LINKS AND RESOURCES:
- Marketing Performance Indicators Checklist
- New Customer Acquisition Cost Calculator
- Get Your nCAC Calculator Now
- Tier 11 DataSuite
- 5 Forces
- Tier 11 Jobs
- Perpetual Traffic on YouTube
- Tiereleven.com
- Mongoose Media
- Perpetual Traffic Survey
- Perpetual Traffic Website
- Follow Perpetual Traffic on Twitter
- Connect with Lauren on Instagram and Connect with Ralph on LinkedIn
Thanks so much for joining us this week. Want to subscribe to Perpetual Traffic? Have some feedback you’d like to share? Connect with us on iTunes and leave us a review!
Mentioned in this episode:
READ THE TRANSCRIPT:
7 Secrets to Explode Your Profits with Upselling
Ralph: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Perpetual Traffic Podcast. This is your host, Ralph Burns, founder and CEO of Tier 11. Alongside my amazing co-host I.
Lauren: Petillo, the founder of Mongoose Media.
Ralph: So glad you joined us here today, and today is gonna be, part two. We weren’t quite sure when we were gonna do part two of this, which is all about N-A-A-O-V. Remind the audience what N-A-A-O-V is. Lauren e
Lauren: That new average order value, Ralph H.
Burns.
Ralph: right. New average order value. Now, this also applies to average order value. So if you are an e-commerce brand, this absolutely applies to you. We are gonna be talking specifically, more specifically on e-commerce here today. But if you have a digital products company, if you have a service-based business, a lot of this stuff does apply.
So listen to what we’re talking about here and think, Hmm, how can [00:01:00] I apply this to my business? In our first episode on cross-selling, we used the example of McDonald’s. trying to educate the perpetual traffic listener on how to upsell, and that’s what today’s show is all about because. NAOV, our average order value, new average order value is one of those marketing performance indicators that’s absolutely essential that you know, so you can figure out how much you are willing and able to pay to acquire a customer.
And as we know, the old expression on NCA is what he or she who is.
Lauren: Willing to pay the most for the customer is going to win.
Ralph: That’s right, especially in a competitive marketplace. So
Lauren: Hello, black Friday. Hello Q4.
Like these are foundational things, Ralph, like I’m so glad that you’re talking about this because like we’re knee deep in making sure everyone knows that it, the end of July, [00:02:00] you must have your Black Friday plan mapped out. And what you need to be doing now is prepping for Q4.
It’s like when fishermen are not at sea, what are they doing? They’re fixing their nets. This is a fixing net situation that you need to set up for a more successful Q4.
Ralph: That’s true. So now’s the time to do it. Now’s the time to, test this. That’s why we’re doing this like mini episode on N aov. ’cause it’s so vitally important. And if you don’t know what all these marketing performance indicators are, just head on over to tier eleven.com/mp.
Download the checklist. There’s also an NCA calculator that’s in there as well. How to figure out how to determine your, price you’re willing to pay to acquire a customer. If you can increase your LTV, which we’re gonna do an episode on that too, lifetime value, or some people call it CLTV, that helps as well, but that’s a component of your A OV.
So two different things here. NAOV is your new average order value. If somebody [00:03:00] buys for the first time, you have to be able to identify. This is what the Tier 11 data suite does extraordinarily well, is it identifies new users, people who have never bought from you, ever. Okay? End of story, 99.4% accuracy.
All right? So those people, you want to get those people to buy More often, but also buy as much as they possibly can. Not a bunch of crap. Okay? We’re assuming that you have a legitimate business, you’re selling good products. We’re gonna be talking about an example here, one of our beauty clients that sells amazing products and their vision is to actually help improve the self-esteem and the self-worth by helping 40-year-old plus females succeed in business.
Like that’s their goal. So they’re not trying to sell like a bunch of shit.
Lauren: Well, it’s like we say Ralph Disney doesn’t sell movies or park tickets. They sell creating memories. you’re selling an emotion, so you’re selling confidence above 40. it’s what is the emotion that you’re evoking so that [00:04:00] the products are just the vehicle on what you’re delivering on that.
But that’s what you’re selling in everything. In always. And that’s where a lot of what we had talked about in the previous recording for cross sellings, it was like, how do you connect. A better story. How do you connect to your consumer for a better experience?
Ralph: Absolutely, and that’s it. It’s like you want to create a great user experience. You want them to come back. Over and over again. we are not selling crap here. Yeah. So, all you affiliates that are selling scammy shit, like, just go to like marketing school podcast right now and listen over there,
Lauren: hey, Hey,
they’ve got some good stuff. I totally listen and every now and then, ’cause they’re short, digestible ones and I’m a big Eric Sux fan. Full disclosure, like I have his book right there leveling up.
Ralph: I know Eric and Neil are awesome. Anyway, I I just love to give him shit. That’s usually what we do. So anyway. All right, so today we’re gonna be talking about, there’s really, there’s seven strategies. These are not like the all be all end all, but there’s really seven strategies in order to upsell.
So. Going back to our initial episode here, difference between a cross sell [00:05:00] and an upsell quiz for you, Lauren e Petrillo, MBA with the laptop in front of you. So what is the difference between a cross sell and an upsell?
Lauren: , , The cross-sell is where you’re complimenting, so see cross complimentary. And the upsell is increasing more of the same. So the alcohol version, if you’re at a bar, what is the upsell? Make it a double. The identify term that we use like for, , McDonald’s is, , would you like fries with that?
So the cross-sell starts, a c, c is complimentary, and then upsell is, , increasing upping. The order value, which in the supplement space is great, especially if you’re like, do you wanna order more? Which, which can be with bundling or it can be like increasing the amount. Maybe you’re buying one bottle, there’s, a toothpaste ad.
So everyone like live fresh, they’re no way sponsor anything like that, but they do a great job of upselling in their funnel. So like, now that your phones are listening to it, [00:06:00] hopefully you get it. It’s a very expensive toothpaste, but their upsell is making it more appealing for you to buy more of. The same product, either in larger size or larger quantity, then pushing across all.
I’m sure they sell all the toothbrushes and other complimentary items, but yeah, that’s the difference between cross sell and upsell
Ralph: Now, one of the examples here today is gonna be, we’re gonna use bundling. So one of our, beauty and wellness clients sells a look like the no makeup makeup look. it is a bundle of six or seven products depending on which ones are. You know, in inventory at that particular point in time.
And it’s a great set. ’cause you’re selling the after state. We always talk about the before state, the after state.
You know, we’re big Ryan Deis fans, although he is retired, , now, but he is still taking money. , The point is, is that that’s what you’re selling here in a lot of cases.
And the big thing is that you’re adding value to the, to your customer
Lauren: Always. That’s the bottom line. The bottom line is always how do you add value without it costing you more?
Ralph: just a fun fact [00:07:00] here. Amazon, which controls 42% of all online shopping, which is an insane statistic, like Walmart and Target, make up like 8%
Lauren: Walmart, when they did their like Walmart plus the first year that they competed against Amazon Prime, they took 5% of market share. So I’m not gonna
poo poo. 5% acquisition in a solid 3, 6, 5 day strategy. Now, they haven’t sustained that type of growth, and it’s obviously a very competitive space for it.
But for those that are in the e-commerce space, if you are not taking advantage of having your feeds and all the different platforms, talked about TikTok shops extensively, but not all brands can get onto TikTok, shop, Walmart and other. . Resources per putting your products is massive and I’ve, we’ve had clients that poo-pooed Walmart because they assume walmart.com is the same as Walmart in store, but we’ve had luxury products.
Clients with high-end products make themselves available on [00:08:00] walmart.com. So Amazon definitely the giant in the space for now. while Walmart and Target are encroaching on it. As best as they can. It’s almost like the fight for AI right now, which is like the US versus China because of the resource and China’s open source and US’ closed policy.
Ralph: Anyway, the point is, is like Amazon produces a lot of sales online, but the funny thing is, is like the interesting stat that. Was trying to say before you went on your Walmart target diatribe is that upselling now is 35% of their total revenue.
Lauren: For Amazon.
Ralph: Yes. if you’re not doing this, like, and there’s reasons why, like, I always do it because I always bundle stuff together.
It’s like, oh, like I was in buying some like. New microphones and a couple of new cameras. ’cause we’re gonna start doing more of this video in person stuff in our video studio in Boston. And it’s like, oh, well would you like, you know, the battery that goes in, that [00:09:00] plugs in for the Sony camera that like, I’m like, yeah, I do.
Or would you like, like a bunch of like, you know, three or four ones that you can sort of swap in and out. So it was like, holy crap, I never thought of that, but I’m like, yes, that’s what I need. Of course I texted, I said, should I get this? He’s like, absolutely. So it’s like right there.
This is a great example of just like an average purchase. But the point was, is that they added something on, and I forget how much it was, it was like a 300 camera. It was like a hundred dollars like bundling sort of upsell here, which we’ll get into here in just a second. So anyway, so think about like your client journey here. Upsells like when shoppers are like at the point of buying. And most of the things that we’re gonna be talking about here are upsells at certain points of the client journey. and the first one is your pre-purchase upsell. This comes in the form of like product recommendations. like the bottom area of like your product pages, so that’s before they even add to cart, okay?
So that you see those. And we’ll [00:10:00] give some examples
here
today.
Lauren: scroll.
Ralph: Yep. So it’s like, you know, these are additional products that people will buy. So it’s like adding more to your cart, adding more, not complimentary necessarily. Sometimes they are kind of cross sells, you know, we might be overlapping a bit here, but the point is, is like that’s part of it.
So that’s like a pre-purchase upsell. Mid purchase is when you’re in the cart, like you’re in the right at the point of sale, you have already added to cart and you get like a popup .
Lauren: Like in the services base, a lot of people will have like a checkbox to include it. Like, Hey, if you’re signing up for this $97 challenge, add this, Viral hook package for $37. Just a simple check, like the Amazon one click buy solution is just like one click add
Ralph: Exactly. so there’s that sort of mid purchase, and then the, the third one is like post-purchase. We’ve all seen these. It’s like, Hey, you bought one. Great. However, your information is stored. They don’t say that, but it’s like, if you get two more, you can get 30% off. You get.
Four [00:11:00] more, you can get 52% off or whatever the percentage is. So that would be sort of the post-purchase upsell. So pre-purchase, mid purchase, and then post-purchase. So we’ll be talking about that on today’s show and sort of, that’s sort of our frame. Make sense so
far?
Lauren: Yeah, makes total sense. Let’s get into it.
Ralph: Let’s do it. All right. So one of the best ones, I’m looking for a new computer. Apple does this amazingly well, is they will give you sort of a side by side comparison.
So, it’s like, all right, well you’re looking for this thing, but then there’s also, your thing is maybe on the middle to lower end. But if you go over to the left, you’ll see the one that has the extra, terabyte of.
Memory or whatever it is for faster performance
Lauren: Best Buy does it too. If you look at it in person, I’m gonna always try to like push you to go in person to have human connections and see the retail experience. Because even at the Apple display at Best Buy, ’cause we’re looking at getting computers for our team, looking at the Mac Mini versus the Mac mini [00:12:00] studio, like it’s just gonna lay it all out.
So your price anchoring where it’s like the Mac mini studio. starts at 2000, whereas the Mac Mini starts at $800, but your price anchoring, you’re like, well, $800 is nothing in comparison to 2000. So you’re providing that psychological effect, but then you’re also showing side by side the memory caps at 64 gigabytes versus the other one can go as high as 512 and that like side by side.
And Amazon does that really well too, but can be annoying. ’cause it’s like theft almost, where you’re like, don’t show other people competitive products. That might be better than a solution that you’re offering, like, ugh. But those are two good examples.
Ralph: Yeah, Amazon does it extraordinarily well. Like when I was buying that Sony camera, there were higher versions. I ended up not buying them, but they like, they highlight your little column for your camera, and then there’s other cameras that are, I don’t know, that like this is the one that I had told me to buy.
So I was like, you know, I didn’t fall for it. But the point was, is like, I saw it [00:13:00] and I’m like, this is really good. So, in the beauty niche, for example. Like, we have two or three clients that do this all the time. So let’s say they’re looking for like a daily moisturizer and it’s 30 bucks.
but on the product page there might be a comparison chart that shows that product alongside a premium version of the moisturizer, maybe higher, like with SPF in it or something like that. You know, anti-aging peptides, 24 hour hydration,
a side by side comparison.
I’m like, well, you know, I can get this 31 that doesn’t have this stuff, or I can get this $50 one. Like, that’s a really good example of like the side by side comparison. In that case, I think it’s only like one or two other products, but if you have the 30, you might have a 50 and then you have a 70 That has even more benefits
And I think in a lot of cases, Amazon will do this with like five to 10. Sometimes you have to scroll way over to the right, which I don’t really like, I like to, [00:14:00] limit the upsell sort of purchases. ’cause the confused mind typically will say no. It’s like, oh, there’s too many things to think about.
I’ll just go with the one that I got. and I remember that when I was purchasing the camera, it like, it, did have that scrolly thing and it was on my phone and I’m like, it’s just, I don’t know. I don’t wanna look at it. So I just got the thing that I got. So anyway, so back to the original episode, we were talking about cross-sells.
Like you have to limit the options here. Don’t confuse people, but also look at. the back end of your Shopify store, what are my best sellers? Well, maybe the $50 moisturizer is your best seller because it has SPF 30, it’s got the anti-aging stuff. You know, like look at your data to figure out like, okay, which ones should I position?
And oftentimes, you know I know there’s apps that do this. I forget the app. That’s the name. They’ll highlight the one that they want you to pick.
So you see that, or it’s a little bit larger and the other ones are sort of in the background a little bit. So there’s a lot of sort of subtle psychological [00:15:00] clues here.
But literally you are not trying to spam someone. You’re not trying to be overboard. You’re just saying, Hey, you know, that’s a great option. If you want these other things, instead of like fumbling around the site to try and find it, we’re gonna offer it right up here, like before you even go into the purchase in some cases.
So you can do it either like pre-purchase, you can do it mid purchase. I don’t think this is really one that you can do post-purchase, but the point is, is side by side comparisons, work really, really well. Make sense?
Lauren: Makes total sense.
Ralph: Alright. The one that I love. Probably the best. ’cause we have a lot of, like CPG clients, obviously in the beauty space.
Supplement space is number two is upselling into a subscription. So switching from the one-time purchase to a recurring subscription, like, oh my God. How much does this help with LTV? Like we’re talking about not only increasing, you know, NAOV potentially, but really like what we’re talking about is really [00:16:00] increasing.
LTV and that LTV, especially on a continuity program, you’re turning a one time purchase into a recurring purchase with maybe a slight discount or an added convenience. We were on a line with a customer yesterday. We were going through one of our larger supplement clients, and obviously the subscribe and save is a huge thing on Amazon.
However, the subscribe and save on their site is slightly less than if you would buy it on Amazon.
Lauren: Oh, so they’re doing that model, okay,
Ralph: Yeah, and
it,
Lauren: for more Amazon buyers.
Ralph: no, they’re pushing for more people to actually price shop on Amazon. Amazon says, okay, it’s only, I forget the price. It might be like 2299 if you subscribe and save, but on their side it’s like 1999.
Lauren: Oh, sorry. So you’re making it more affordable on web on.com versus That’s why I thought they were doing it the other way. I was like, they’re giving away more margin. And that’s, I know that model, but I’ve never seen it work, so I was like, oh, okay.
Ralph: Yeah,[00:17:00]
Lauren: So it’s advantageous if you buy on Amazon, it’s like what?
40 plus, 46 ish percent of Amazon buyers are never going to leave Amazon. They’re always gonna buy on Amazon. But there are some that are gonna fall in love with your product and venture to see a bigger line of products you have. You might have dotcom exclusives or potentially more price advantageous costs, like in this situation where you get to save two bucks per.
Ralph: Yeah, absolutely. So what we tell all of our Amazon, like we probably had a half a dozen calls this week where like, Hey, we’re doing so much more business on Amazon than we’re doing over in our Shopify store. I’m like, well, let’s look at your pages. See how your pricing, hint, hint, you can run a.
All the time. 20% off sale and undercut your Amazon price and stay in compliance with map pricing and make your subscription less than they if it were, subscribe and save on Amazon. And that’s how you acquire a customer over on Amazon. And then they, when the next time they buy maybe a PERS on Amazon, they go to your site.
Lauren: you also own the customer. [00:18:00] You never get the customer’s information. You get a bit a chance that 1% of people using it Inbox flyer, like you can have one insert that may potentially catch and it’s like really good if you’re like, Hey, take this survey and we’ll give you a complimentary product.
Because you’re just, as an Amazon seller, you know that you don’t get any of that information at all. It’s so gate kept from you, but if they buy from you, you also don’t have to give up that 15 to 35%
Ralph: Yeah. I mean, it’s averaged like 15% or so. So I mean, I feel like you figure out your pricing, pricing versus
Amazon
Lauren: I’m just thinking about like fulfillment by Amazon because of also the cost of storing the product and all of those situations. So yeah, it’s 15% on sales, but on that, this is a solution. So you’re saying going back to like one of, because you have seven upsell solutions that can help you as a brand owner or agency provider for your clients.
And even if you’re not in eCommerce space, think of applicable ways. One of them that you’re saying. Is having, like the first one we talked about was like [00:19:00] the comparison so that you can see, , confirm the purchase that they want or potentially increase the value of the purchase. And then this is the second one.
Ralph: Yeah, perfect. So an example, beauty example here is Face cleanser 24 99. But at checkout, sort of a mid purchase, upsell, subscribe and save, get 15% off. And what they do is they actually have a dropdown of regular deliveries of one month, two months, or three months. So you get to choose which one
Lauren: Do they increase the discount on the base, on the frequency,
or is it a flat? 15%.
Ralph: it’s a flat 15% in this case, obviously, something to test. I mean, just like, in our previous episode on, , cross sells. It’s like, you gotta test this sort of stuff. But in this particular case, they don’t. So. Always be testing a BT. , Number three, I’m gonna make this quick here.
All right. Upselling with incentives. So, providing an extra benefit, like free shipping, a free gift, a discount on the next purchase. [00:20:00] If the customer chooses a higher value product, so let’s say a customer’s buying like a 39.99 foundation, an offer pops up and says, upgrade to our premium foundation, plus. primer. bundle for 65 bucks or 64 99 and get a full free size makeup setting spray for a $20 value and free expedited shipping. Like that’s a great offer. Like.
Lauren: less.
Ralph: but you’re getting $65, you’re upselling and you’re getting this freebie, like that’s kind of combining a lot of different things into it.
But this is obviously something to
test,
so you’re upgrading.
that’s absolutely what it is. So it’s, it’s an upsell, but it’s really, it’s an up upgrade of what you’re currently, you have in your cart, and that’s actually right, like mid checkout, so
that’s right at the checkout. So incentives is a good one. Alternating products. So think about like products that are, maybe superior or they have [00:21:00] more comprehensive elements to the products that you’re about to purchase. And then guiding that customer towards better options. So for example, beauty niche example, once again, , customers looking at your basic, like, is it volumizing mascara?
Lauren: I’m loving. You struggle so much on these terms. Like if this were sports analogies, you’d be like, I’ve got this all day. And now we’re talking about like volumizing mascara, primer. Foundation, powder setting powder, like I’m here for this.
Ralph: you could tell I’m not the one that actually does the work on these, but I sell the ideas. Like we have a team that is like a bunch of beauty specialists, so like they gave me all these, by the way. So anyway, so Volumizing mascara, I know what that is. It’s a mascara that makes your, eyelashes more volume, like thicker, right.
, So maybe alongside that product, it might be like a, you might also, like, this is classic Amazon selling, you know, lash Effect mascara, like that’s one of the ones that [00:22:00] we use. and then it shows like how it lengthens and volumizes and curls and does all these great things.
And
Lauren: You’re doing so
Ralph: I’m, am I doing good?
Lauren: You doing great.
Ralph: Maybe you have like a duo of like $35 with a primer. So you’re encouraging the upgrade. Like from an $18 purchase to maybe like a $35 purchase if you actually pull ’em all together. ’cause it’s a, you might also like alongside it, so this is a little bit, upsell, cross-selling, but it’s more upselling ’cause you are adding more to it.
So this could almost be included in our original list from our original podcast. So, , how am I doing so far?
Lauren: You’re doing great you’re completing your no makeup makeup. Look right now.
Ralph: I really am, as long as the lighting and, you know, the effects here on, Riverside or Right. I, you know, it’s kind of like the no makeup, makeup look, I don’t wear any makeup, so, all right. this is our favorite upselling into a bundle is number [00:23:00] five. Okay, so related multiple products all together in a basket, selling a look, the no makeup, makeup look, there’s a lot of, like, there’s another one I think it’s like just woke up, and still look pretty.
Like you’re selling obviously the after state here. So for example, related products bought together. At a slightly reduced price than if they were bought individually. and then you create sort of this perception of, greater value from more complete after state solution benefit.
Benefit benefit. So let’s say, you know, can you think, all right, here you go. I’m gonna ask you, do you have any examples of this upselling into a bundle?
Lauren: I’ll say that we do a lot of upselling into bundles for Black Friday. So there’s a lot of those pieces that we’ll do where we’ll have massive discounts in the bundles that will ideally take you through January. , But other examples that are gonna be upselling the bundle, keeping that beauty niche is always upselling into the travel kit.
[00:24:00] Upselling into a complete set. So there, some of the products that we personally sell, we have like 97 different brands. So we’ll say you can complete the kit that it’s with so that you have the same matching sets so that you can get all three always at a discount.
So we’ll do those type of bundles In the past we’ve created, I will just tell you from our experience what it didn’t work well.
We create three set, five set, and 10 set kits based off of skin type. So if you have oily skin, here’s your five step bundle. Here’s your 10 step bundle. Here’s your three step bundle specifically for your skin type. Remove the friction. And then if someone bought a product that’s in the bundle, we’d say like, Hey, this is inside our oily skin.
Anti-aging bundle. Would you like to upgrade to that bundle? I will say when we’ve done that, it was triggered based off of a product inside of the bundle. It actually hurts the point of sale. So in our use case, I can solve that one didn’t work. Where it was like distracting you away. ’cause like we had talked yesterday, what you’d never wanna do is interrupt someone’s full on [00:25:00] experience thinking about this out loud.
I bet that would’ve been a better post-purchase. Bundle upgrade where it’s like, Hey, we can add these other two products in your cart before it’s fully shipped without increasing any shipping costs to you like that. Like thinking out loud. I’m like, oh, that would’ve been a better solution.
Ralph: Yeah. the idea is like, in that particular case, what dollar volume are you taking them from, and then to, as far
as like the bundle goes.
Lauren: good question. So like, you know, 80 plus percent of the products are under $30. So then going into a kit that’s gonna be $50, it’s too much of a burden. So that I was like, wait, I was just gonna spend $25 on this moisturizer or on this toner. Now I’m going to a minimum of a 50 plus dollars purchase.
It caused too much friction versus it being a gradual increase. So in that case, if it was already purchased, and then I’m not now anchoring your $25 to a $50 product, you’ve already purchased $25. And I’m just saying, would you like to get two products now for an additional [00:26:00] $25 without any additional costs?
That would’ve been a better story to tell. So learn from my mistakes that didn’t work well. But other bundles that can do is like, we have a client that has, , a moisturizing product. And then we can say like, Hey, you can bundle, you can get two of them. You can get three of them. So it’s one for you.
It’s like we had called it like the air the spare, and one for your best friend kind of situation so that you have it as a gift kind of situation. So those are other ways that we’ve done it, but those are on like microsite pages where we make that a very specific product landing page. And then later down, once you have it, you have the option to see similar to your.
Previous one where you’re comparing. Then we have just comparing bundles that will put lower on the pages that provide more value. But for me, I’ve seen challenges where I’ve upgraded into a bundle before that’s caused more friction on the sale, but now I’m like, oh, I’m immediately gonna go test the post-purchase version to tell a different story.
Ralph: Interesting. So in the client that I was just talking about, which is a great example because they do [00:27:00] it so well, is like they do a, tutorial on the look. these videos are mostly face to camera with, , a. The subject matter expert in there. And so, for example, I’m looking at one right now. I won’t say who it is, but it’s like the natural and smoky makeup look. But with that is 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 products. So they’re selling the look and then they tell you how to do it, and you see the transformation. And this woman has no makeup to start. She’s very attractive. To begin with, but then after it’s like she has everything. It’s like the look is so amazing. Like, it’s so amazing, it’s so good.
and she’s using, like, she’ll go up right to the camera. It’s like, this is the sculpting brush that I’m using. This is, you know, the eyeshadow trio that I use. And so she’ll then apply it, show how to apply it. It’s just brilliant and they’ve got dozens of these and it’s just a great way of doing it.
And it works really well on social. And then you put paid ads behind it. It’s like, [00:28:00] it’s absolutely killer.
Lauren: It’s like the recipe
Ralph: Yeah, it’s like the recipe. You want the cake? Let me show you how to make it,
So that’s basically it. So anyway, that’s why I love bundles. These are definitely my favorite. We’ve got a few more here.
Upselling pre cart with a popup. Now this is one where you have not gone to the cart site yet, but you are looking at the page
Lauren: So you’re on the PDP, the product display page,
Ralph: Yep.
Lauren: and you’ve already clicked add to cart.
Ralph: , No, you have not added to cart yet, so it’s like you’re looking at, . Like Dollar Shave Club used to do this really, really well. Like you’re on the razor, but then you’re on the razor page.
But then the popup comes in, says, Hey, a special offer, like upgrade and save. 15%.
Lauren: To the groom kit.
Ralph: When you get the groom kit, which is, the, you know, the razor, then you get, , the shave butter. ’cause I just [00:29:00] used it this morning and then you get the moisturizer I guess I actually, I was totally upsold to this.
’cause now I’m thinking about it, it’s like I applied to all three this morning. It’s crazy. So that’s how well it works. It’s like, so I would’ve just bought, razor with the blades that come. And
that’s a continuity program
Lauren: Is you want the
bandaid or do you want the actual solution?
Ralph: Right. Do you want like the Neosporin plus the cotton balls and the hydrogen peroxide, you know what I mean?
Like depends on what kind of wound you have. But anyway, that’s the point. Like I haven’t even had a to cart yet, so I’m thinking about buying it. I’m hovering there and there’s an app. That we can probably do like a whole episode on like apps that we like that do this. But anyway, the app is if you stay on that page long enough, that means you’re interested or you’re reading about it and then the hover pop comes, it can’t come too soon.
Otherwise
it’s just annoying.
Lauren: Good. , Can I add a plus and a yes and to this, that I’ve seen really [00:30:00] well. So if you’re doing that type of popup, it can be to distract some. If there’s a lower value product and it fits inside of a bigger kit and you’re like, Hey. What you’re actually looking for is a grooming kit. And it’s not super simple.
Like, no, I just wanna eraser. Okay, exit that journey. It can be a point of friction where they’re like, I don’t want this, don’t be annoying. But in that use case, if it’s a very small price point and you’re like, I’m not actually making any money, and if we go back to like NAOV, if you’re NAOV is suffering, and it’s like you have, you’re selling a lot of these $2 products when you have a groom kit for $10, this is a very good thing to test.
But what I would add to it is. When they leave that screen, you can have it coded in so that the tab has a noise and a different banner so that you can have it in your tabs. If you’re like me, I don’t know, I probably have like 45 tabs open right now. While we’re recording on Riverside, you can have it. So then that tab starts to signal [00:31:00] notifications to draw someone back to the tab that they had abandoned.
So if you’re doing that popup, you have to make sure that you have a delay in place because you don’t want to interrupt. This is when someone who’s like, they’re on the fence. You’re like, Hey, you’re looking again, going back to that in-person experience, someone’s like looking around. You hate it. When someone comes up to you, it’s like, Hey, how can I help you?
Like, oh my gosh, I’m browsing. I literally just started looking at this. Go away. You behemoth. Troll digger you. But if you’re like there and you’re like looking at it and you need help, what Tumble is like, Hey, can I help you? We have a, we do this for sales, we have a 4th of July sale right now that’s going on where I see you’re looking at that razor, we actually have a full grooming kit.
Can I show it to you? This might be what you’re actually solving for. So that always go back to what you would wanna experience in, in person. ’cause that’s what we adopt to the online environment. So having that delay is critical. But then also that delay might [00:32:00] happen because they’re still considering, or they’ve left your browser and they’re on a different tab.
So I would just, yes, and of having that notification, ’cause then you can change what the tab is saying so it can continue to draw their attention back to it.
Ralph: that’s great. And by the way, you asked actually a different question than most people ask. When they’re browsing, can I help you as a yes or no question? You asked, how can I help you? Which is not a yes or no question, which is probably better. One of the things I, I was in Lowe’s was like Lowe’s or Home Depot, and a guy walked up to me like, like with the Lowe’s, like apron.
He is like, Hey, how’s it going? Good. What project are you working on?
Lauren: Hmm. What a good question.
Ralph: It’s a great question. I was like, oh my God, that’s so good. Like they have some kind of training. It’s like, do you need anything? You know, have any questions? Nope, I’m good. You know, it’s like, what project am I working on? I was like, I.
Oh yeah, I’m actually, I’m trying to like trim the trees, like to [00:33:00] trim back ’cause they keep coming out like, messing up view of the lake at my house. And he is like, oh, okay, so what you need is a pole saw. Like he’s got a couple of different versions, like where I’m like, where are those? I’ve been looking around for him.
He’s like, whether there’s the power version, there’s the electric version. Or you can just do like, so I. Just kind of cheap. But anyway, the point is, is like, that was a great question. so think about it that way. People are always gonna like, the easy thing is no. So in the example of Dollar Shave, I don’t know as if Dollar, I don’t have Dollar Shave Club up.
But anyway, I would guess that they probably have like a no thanks, continue to cart kind of thing or no thanks. Right Now you can test this, but look at your most popular product. And once again, go on the back end of your store, figure out what that product is like with Dollar Shave Club now that they’re owned by Gillette.
I mean, it’s Shaver. it’s the thing you use for shaving, you know, whatever that thing is called, a shaver. So [00:34:00] a razor, but it’s not really that. ’cause the razor blade is a separate thing. But anyway,
the point is, is like look at your most popular item and what can you actually.
Offer them as sort of a bundle, but it’s upselling before they actually add to the cart. And it’s just a better user experience, but don’t be too pushy on it. Make sense?
Lauren: Makes total sense.
Ralph: Alright, last but not least, upselling on the thank you. Page number seven. All right, so after a purchase is completed. Offering a relevant upsell, and we’ve talked about this a couple of times here today, or a recurring option.
This like your recurring thing. Hey, subscribe and save. Could be done on the thank you page. Okay. Offering a relevant upsell, like you’ve already bought one bottle of protein powder, you know you can get. Three for the price of X five six. I don’t know why it’s always three and six in the supplement space, but it always is going this, it’s like, use what everybody else uses, because that’s probably what works.
You know, it’s a [00:35:00] thank you for your purchase. Get 20% off your first month of the Deluxe Beauty box subscription, or whatever it is. Or add our bestselling, you know, hydrating mist to your next order for only $12. Whatever. It’s like, think about. Whatever they’ve purchased, you know, and then your, maybe one of your more popular products, this is a little bit harder to do so that it’s completely relevant.
Like a cross sell. It can be like, that’s why it’s in the upsell ’cause it’s on the thank you page because there’s not a lot of softwares that know what your purchase was and then can match it. We’ll have to sort of look into that. But the point is, is like on the, post purchase. Thank you page. There is a great opportunity for subscribe and save bundling, adding more, you know, your highest inventory, lowest selling product that you know is really good.
Try and get rid of it on your thank you page. Like I’ve seen that many, many times. So upselling on the thank you page is just one of the internet marketing and the digital [00:36:00] marketing sort of staples.
Lauren: Yeah. The post purchase upsell where you’ve got them in the e-commerce space, it’s like, Hey, like What we have tested is when it won’t increase your shipping costs, because beauty products are heavy. They’re water-based products that add more weight. More weight means more shipping costs, and that goes up every year.
So when you’re able to say like, Hey, like you don’t have to pay extra shipping. Ideally it even hits ’em to the threshold. But if it’s not, it’s like, Hey, don’t worry about it. We can still put it in your order
without increasing your costs. Like before, if you did have that order bump at checkout where you’re just increasing an additional product and bumping up that average order value, you could potentially increase the shipping and handling costs.
And we’ve worked with a lot of food and beverage. Products, and again, liquids is heavy. So we would find order bumps of increasing an additional bottle into your order would then add an extra seven pounds of shipping. It’s like, wait, hold on. This product cost me five pounds. It just was 12 pounds more. So if you have that threshold of like where you unlock free shipping, but if you’re doing that post-purchase [00:37:00] upsell where you can say, I can insert it.
Without it affecting shipping. That’s done really well for e-commerce. And then in the digital marketing space, like the internet marketing space, we’ve seen a lot where if you’re selling a challenge or you’re selling a webinar, right, they’ve already purchased and now you’re offering them what else can enhance their experience.
And a lot of people will do this, especially in the service space, is if it’s a post-purchase upsell, unlike the other tactics and strategies, you have to be very mindful of the psychology of the price. Because you, cannot deter, like I told you my example, we went from a $25, now we’re selling you $50.
It was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what happened? But here you’re actually encouraged to increase what they’re willing, ’cause they’ve already given you that initial commitment. So say you’re buying something for $24, you can now be like, Hey, there’s more that we can add to your card. Or in the service space. You might be like, you bought this $97, now let me upsell you into a $247 product.
Ralph: Right, right. you’re combining two kind of different things there a bit. We did talk a little bit about. Order bumps on the first episode on [00:38:00] that, which is usually, it appears on the checkout page as like a, small low cost add-on. No more than, between 25 and 50% of the original purchase price.
You know, like great thing is like, we use the Frank Kern example in the info space. It’s like, get the audio version on the $19 product for only $9 or $7 or whatever it is. like you could just check that box. So that sort of would be an order bump. You know, you can also do that on the post-purchase upsell page.
can do that or subscribe and save. So. Test where it is like that always, you know, I guess rule number eight here is test, test, test everything, of course, because these are just sort of generalized guidelines. But if you do like one of these literally and just focus on that. Like take the seven things that we’ve talked about here today and figure out, okay, that what I’m gonna do, and then just start testing it because.
This is the most important stuff, like I’ve said this before, it’s like our application page is the most [00:39:00] important page on our site. You know, your checkout is the most important page on your site, like just prior to checkout, like the pre-purchase upsell. Really important on your PDP pages, your post-purchase, like figure out where the friction points are.
Obviously you can look at this sort of stuff inside your Google Analytics and see where the friction points are within your analysis. You can also get an analysis done. From us over at tier eleven.com/apply. If you see where those friction points are, the point is pick one and figure that out and test the hell out of it now before Black Friday, cyber Monday is coming ’cause it’s coming fast.
So that’s
the reason why we’re doing this show right now. So.
Lauren: And for the media buyers and agencies listening to it, like you’re like, well, I’m in charge of before the click this. After the click stuff like, yes, data suite is gonna give you a lot of information. Other tools potentially might give you that even within like the meta ecosystem. If you have your audiences set up, you can see what the purchase conversion value is for your engaged audience, for your [00:40:00] customers, and for your new audience.
That new audience and your purchase conversion value will allow you to at least see from your Facebook ads attributable. Conversions and net NAOV. So it gives you a starting place. So if you do not focus on what happens after the click you’re discriminating opportunity for you to be a better media buyer
because you’re in-app metrics, those micros of your ROAS is predetermined based off of what’s happening after the click.
So even though we’re not saying follow and subscribe only to your in-app micros numbers, right? Like you have to look at the macro picture. You still have that as a component to the story that’s giving you guidance on how to make smarter media buying decisions,
Ralph: Absolutely. I mean, they’re so interrelated you bring up a really good point. A lot of media buyers are like, yeah, well that’s after the collect. That doesn’t really matter to me. It absolutely matters
Lauren: especially when your position is going away in the next two to three years. Like to be a better media buyer is to be a better marketer.
Ralph: Yeah, well, it’s also to be a more helpful resource for your [00:41:00] clients too or for your business. And that’s what we’re talking about here, like user experience and getting ’em to come back over and over again, and obviously purchase more helpful, useful products on the first purchase, which is all about NAOV and increasing that.
But you can increase that. You can increase your nac, and that’s how you beat the competition. So.
I’m gonna drop the mic right now. , So, make sure that wherever you listen to podcasts, wherever that is, leave us a rating and review. All right? We’re gonna read those out here on air. Really appreciate that.
’cause it gets us out to a wider audience and teaches people how to do all this shit the right way as opposed to the wrong way. So, and go back and listen to previous episodes. We will put all links in the show notes on this. All right. Well, thank you so much for listening this week. All our resources are over@perpetualtraffic.com.
On behalf of my amazing co-host, Lauren e Petillo
Lauren: So.
Ralph: till next show, see you. [00:42:00]
