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As the Meta and Google ad landscape continues to evolve, it’s no longer just about targeting customers. It’s about creating ads that work for AI first. John Moran is back with more insights into refining your ad strategy to match the AI revolution.
John breaks down content diversification, explaining how creative testing and varied ad formats are key to capturing audience attention and driving conversions. He also simplifies the complexities of model data and the impact of first click edge tagging for improving attribution accuracy.
If your ad spend isn’t aligning with your growth goals, John shares tips on consolidating campaigns and iterating creatives to find what resonates with your target audience. Plus, he explains how automated systems track and adjust campaigns based on performance, enabling you to focus resources on winning ads that deliver real results.
In this episode:
00:00 Understanding model data in advertising
04:09 The role of attribution in scaling campaigns
06:24 What percentage of ad data is modelled?
10:34 Content diversification strategies
16:45 Meta’s role in ad spend allocation
19:47 Evaluating ad performance beyond CPA
23:06 Where to learn more and get help
Mentioned in the Episode:
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READ THE TRANSCRIPT:
The Future of Media Buying: John Moran on cAPI Imports + Edge Tagging (Part 2)
00:00:00:00 – 00:00:01:21
John
We don’t create ads for people anymore.
00:00:01:21 – 00:00:03:13
John
We have to create ads for AI first.
00:00:03:20 – 00:00:06:09
Ralph
At what point do you say, well, that creative
00:00:06:09 – 00:00:07:00
Ralph
isn’t
00:00:07:00 – 00:00:08:08
Ralph
doing anything
00:00:08:08 – 00:00:09:19
Ralph
acquire new customers?
00:00:09:19 – 00:00:11:13
Ralph
how do you guide media buyers
00:00:11:13 – 00:00:16:10
Ralph
say, all right, well, that’s when you have to shut that one off. That’s when you have to do more of that one.
00:00:16:10 – 00:00:17:23
John
It’s actually fairly simplistic
00:00:17:23 – 00:00:20:03
John
And what the Andromeda engine does is
00:00:21:23 – 00:00:25:15
Ralph
one of the other big questions that I always get is
00:00:25:15 – 00:00:32:17
Ralph
and I’ve been at this conference for two days now, and this is always comes up like, you guys talk about model data all the time.
00:00:32:17 – 00:00:38:08
Ralph
Explain that sort of in layman’s terms on the meta and probably on the Google side.
00:00:38:08 – 00:00:44:14
Ralph
Yeah. Because people say, well, you know, I look in my meta, it looks like looks like everything’s accurate.
00:00:44:16 – 00:00:46:00
Ralph
Yeah. And I said, well,
00:00:46:00 – 00:01:03:09
Ralph
part of that a large part is models because the, the AI algorithm, the algorithm for meta is so good, they’re saying, all right, if these six people did this, then we’re going to extrapolate that these other six people did the same thing. So is it that simple or what’s your take on model data.
00:01:03:11 – 00:01:04:23
Ralph
How do you explain it to people.
00:01:04:23 – 00:01:08:12
John
Yeah. And I’ve learned a lot about the model data this last two months. And
00:01:08:12 – 00:01:09:11
John
basically just by
00:01:09:11 – 00:01:14:23
John
changing what we’re sending meta, I can see how it displays the results. So
00:01:14:23 – 00:01:16:03
John
model data.
00:01:16:03 – 00:01:17:17
John
And I’m not saying that it’s
00:01:17:17 – 00:01:19:00
John
this isn’t as.
00:01:19:02 – 00:01:20:22
John
Negligent I guess I would say
00:01:20:22 – 00:01:24:21
John
there’s a positive side or negative side, depending upon how you look at model data can
00:01:24:21 – 00:01:26:09
John
be either optimistic or pessimistic.
00:01:26:09 – 00:01:35:12
John
The optimistic side says, we know that conversions have happened because we can see people going to the checkout page. We believe it came from us, so we will give ourselves credit.
00:01:35:12 – 00:01:38:22
John
Or you could say we see everything happening on the site
00:01:38:22 – 00:01:41:05
John
and due to the fact that we
00:01:41:05 – 00:01:42:12
John
probably missed it,
00:01:42:12 – 00:01:43:22
John
we’ll count it as us.
00:01:43:22 – 00:01:46:09
John
So model data means pessimistic.
00:01:46:09 – 00:01:49:05
Ralph
Optimistic. It depends on which way you look. Exactly, exactly.
00:01:49:05 – 00:01:50:21
Ralph
For the average business owner,
00:01:50:21 – 00:01:52:18
Ralph
it’s helpful. It’s helpful.
00:01:52:20 – 00:01:55:22
John
Exactly. And for scaling really specific
00:01:55:22 – 00:01:56:18
John
events
00:01:56:18 – 00:02:01:16
John
such as a, you know, a launch of a new product that you need new customers to buy.
00:02:01:16 – 00:02:04:22
John
It could be really poor. So I’ll give you an example. There’s a very, very, very large,
00:02:04:22 – 00:02:05:20
John
promotional company,
00:02:05:20 – 00:02:07:22
John
a lot of TV commercials and,
00:02:07:22 – 00:02:11:19
John
they wanted to try meta. And I said, I’m going to predict what is going to happen.
00:02:11:19 – 00:02:12:11
John
And I told them,
00:02:12:11 – 00:02:14:09
John
I said, this is a this is a few months ago.
00:02:14:09 – 00:02:15:16
John
I said, you’re going to
00:02:15:16 – 00:02:24:04
John
start your campaigns on meta and you’re going to see some unbelievable results. Now, I asked him, how many sales do they have a day? They have about 12,000 sales a day.
00:02:24:04 – 00:02:25:18
John
and they said just, just wait to see that.
00:02:25:18 – 00:02:32:02
John
And they said, yeah, we’re down. You’re right. We we lost the A campaign. We spent $120. We had 4000 sales.
00:02:35:20 – 00:02:38:13
Ralph
And I was like, really? Oh, wow. That is amazing.
00:02:38:13 – 00:02:39:09
Ralph
So he’s like.
00:02:39:09 – 00:02:41:09
John
We have like a 62 million robot. So I’m like, I.
00:02:41:09 – 00:02:42:19
Ralph
Bet you oh, that’s it, you
00:02:42:19 – 00:02:44:08
Ralph
know, and so that’s.
00:02:44:08 – 00:02:45:21
John
That’s what happened is now
00:02:45:21 – 00:02:46:14
John
is it.
00:02:46:14 – 00:02:52:20
John
The pessimistic side says, well, they did it on purpose so that you will see such good results that that you want to give it more money.
00:02:52:20 – 00:03:01:07
John
Now the optimistic side says, well, they, they could have had ad blockers. I mean, even Shopify says that their attribution is only 55% accurate and U.S. territories 45% accurate.
00:03:01:08 – 00:03:10:05
John
Nation territories because of those issues. Yeah. So yeah, if you go into the back end of your Shopify and you use the marketing attribution, you hit first click. Sometimes a ton of those first clicks came from email.
00:03:10:05 – 00:03:14:22
John
That’s not possible. Yeah. You know, you have to come to your site, sign up for the email, leave and then come back through email.
00:03:14:22 – 00:03:17:23
John
So I was first got email right. So every channel
00:03:17:23 – 00:03:18:03
John
it.
00:03:18:03 – 00:03:19:03
Ralph
Doesn’t make any sense.
00:03:19:03 – 00:03:34:12
Ralph
Think about it like first clear vilest. That’s right. Like you never touch the site but suddenly you’re magically on an email list and that’s how you buy. So even Shopify doesn’t quite get this on the back. And there a big publicly traded, publicly traded, great company. Exactly. Yeah.
00:03:34:12 – 00:03:37:20
John
But they they they they just can’t get it right. It’s not possible. So
00:03:37:20 – 00:03:45:15
John
you can use that to your advantage or disadvantage. And that’s why I think like as Shopify they have no advantage of having more accurate attribution. That’s not their job. Right. But
00:03:45:15 – 00:03:46:22
John
if meta
00:03:46:22 – 00:03:48:16
John
just gets better at attributing them
00:03:48:16 – 00:03:49:15
John
to themselves,
00:03:49:15 – 00:03:51:11
John
that’s good for meta. Now, if Google
00:03:51:11 – 00:03:53:20
John
is better at attributing sales to themselves,
00:03:53:20 – 00:03:55:00
John
it’s it’s better for Google.
00:03:55:00 – 00:04:02:05
John
Now, what do you have is two hungry platforms that are getting really, really good at attributing sales to themselves through the guise of,
00:04:02:05 – 00:04:03:18
John
well, we probably missed it.
00:04:03:18 – 00:04:06:15
John
And that’s that’s where it is, both good and bad. So
00:04:06:15 – 00:04:11:18
John
that’s where it’s hard to scale is if you give it more money, I’ll give you a good, good visual.
00:04:11:20 – 00:04:22:20
John
Let’s say you have 100 sales every single day. So it starts down one goes all the way to 100. Yep. And you have $10 an ad spend. And every $10 you spend can attribute one sale.
00:04:22:20 – 00:04:27:09
John
So now as you add every $10, your sales go from $10, one sale, $10
00:04:27:09 – 00:04:30:19
John
one sale. Then you’re like, okay, now $20 to sales and $40 for sales.
00:04:30:19 – 00:04:33:13
John
And then our eight sales are like, wow, I’m giving this more money.
00:04:33:13 – 00:04:35:17
John
And it’s just showing more and more and more sales.
00:04:35:17 – 00:04:36:07
John
Now
00:04:36:07 – 00:04:37:11
John
snap back to your
00:04:37:11 – 00:04:40:07
John
backend of your Shopify. And you’re like, well, I still only have ten sales.
00:04:40:07 – 00:04:50:04
John
And that’s what that’s what it’s doing. It says I have more money, I can attribute more to myself because I am running longer, and I’m seeing those sales on your website for longer periods of time.
00:04:50:04 – 00:05:02:05
John
And people have been confusing that with scale. And that’s called attribution, not contribution is scaling. So when you only allow it to have a first click new customer of a product that come from a ad on that channel,
00:05:02:05 – 00:05:08:23
John
now when you add in money and another customer comes in, that’s when you see the back end of Shopify go from 10 to 11, like you’ll actually see a grow.
00:05:09:00 – 00:05:10:20
Ralph
You’ll actually see incremental growth.
00:05:10:21 – 00:05:13:01
John
Because it has to be first like it has to come from there.
00:05:13:01 – 00:05:13:21
John
It cannot be
00:05:13:21 – 00:05:16:14
John
Ten first click emails and then show up in Google. Right?
00:05:16:14 – 00:05:20:14
Ralph
Right. So it’s the most stringent measurement
00:05:20:14 – 00:05:24:16
Ralph
really, but most accurate, most honest and the most honest. Right.
00:05:24:18 – 00:05:29:00
John
Yeah. And if we can retrain the algorithm to develop a repeatable action
00:05:29:00 – 00:05:32:11
John
like those search terms are working, those are giving me new customers.
00:05:32:11 – 00:05:34:17
John
You know, this channel is working well,
00:05:34:17 – 00:05:40:23
John
you know, I’m using reels in this audience that I’m testing in the Andromeda model instead of meta. And they are buying it’s working. Well,
00:05:40:23 – 00:05:46:16
John
we already saw that the black box of targeting will spiral out of control in a good way
00:05:46:16 – 00:05:50:14
John
when it finds a pocket of success, and sometimes it’s a bad way, like when you get spammed.
00:05:50:14 – 00:05:55:23
John
Also, you’re like, yeah, we had 7000 leads come in. They’re all fake. The reason why that happened is because the number went from 0 to 1,
00:05:55:23 – 00:06:01:15
John
and then the targeting got a little tighter on that audience and focused more on ad spend grew on that audience. Now
00:06:01:15 – 00:06:05:08
John
the conversions skyrocketed because it says, Holy crap, I found a pocket of gold.
00:06:05:08 – 00:06:07:07
John
I hit the main line. I found the gold.
00:06:07:07 – 00:06:09:05
Ralph
Of the gold line. Exact spam leads.
00:06:09:07 – 00:06:11:17
John
Exactly. Alison. Spam goes, oh
00:06:11:17 – 00:06:13:04
John
yeah. Now imagine if those were.
00:06:13:07 – 00:06:15:06
Ralph
Like a vein of gold. Exactly, exactly.
00:06:15:06 – 00:06:17:05
John
Yeah. Imagine if those were first click new customers.
00:06:17:05 – 00:06:19:08
Ralph
Yeah, that’s that’s doing what it’s doing.
00:06:19:08 – 00:06:19:20
Ralph
Right.
00:06:19:20 – 00:06:21:03
Ralph
How much?
00:06:21:03 – 00:06:23:21
Ralph
Before we get into the kind of diversification which I do want to hit on that,
00:06:23:21 – 00:06:24:22
Ralph
how much
00:06:24:22 – 00:06:26:06
Ralph
as a percentage,
00:06:26:06 – 00:06:32:14
Ralph
if you look at meta and or Google, like, what percentage do you think is modeled?
00:06:32:14 – 00:06:33:14
Ralph
Oh, 40%.
00:06:33:14 – 00:06:37:02
Ralph
It’s 40%. As much as I can’t identify it by 40%.
00:06:37:13 – 00:06:37:23
Ralph
Okay.
00:06:38:00 – 00:06:39:08
John
Now if you have videos
00:06:39:08 – 00:06:45:10
John
it’s a little bit more like 60% because you got your one day view and then one day engage view one everyone’s imagery one day engage use video.
00:06:45:10 – 00:06:52:12
Ralph
So if you have all image ads yeah 40% of what you’re seeing inside the platforms is modeled. So it’s
00:06:52:12 – 00:06:57:19
Ralph
depending on how you’re looking at it. Right. Either optimistic or pessimistic. They’re trying to help you out.
00:06:57:19 – 00:07:01:16
Ralph
Let’s take the optimistic view. These platforms are trying to help you. Yeah.
00:07:01:16 – 00:07:04:10
Ralph
The pessimistic view is they’re just trying to take your money.
00:07:04:12 – 00:07:06:17
Ralph
It’s either true or low. Both are true.
00:07:06:17 – 00:07:13:04
Ralph
So it’s 40% if it’s image ads which require more of a click. But then if you have video heavy, I mean,
00:07:13:04 – 00:07:18:01
Ralph
we’ve got some campaigns that are practically all video. Oftentimes I know.
00:07:18:03 – 00:07:18:15
John
People
00:07:18:15 – 00:07:29:12
John
and those click attributed conversions come in a little bit less, but we just measure them differently. We understand that we’re going to get less clicks so we can be okay with a higher end platform. CPA as long as the actual business goal is still being met.
00:07:29:12 – 00:07:30:00
Ralph
Yeah.
00:07:30:00 – 00:07:31:03
Ralph
you heard it here first. Yeah.
00:07:31:03 – 00:07:38:01
Ralph
40 to 60% of what you see inside the ad platform business model. That’s not actual data.
00:07:38:01 – 00:07:48:21
John
It’s modeled. It’s what we believe and unbelievable. And that’s if they click accept and the consent mode. Yeah. Like God like right here. Now what’s funny about this is here’s the optimistic side.
00:07:48:21 – 00:07:50:18
John
Everything that meta and Google,
00:07:50:18 – 00:07:53:09
John
all of the users that Meta and Google bring to your site,
00:07:53:09 – 00:07:59:09
John
they are going to use approximately 30 to $0.40 of every dollar in ad spend, remarketing them
00:07:59:09 – 00:08:00:04
John
to bring them back.
00:08:00:04 – 00:08:07:07
John
So that’s why you see those that’s that’s frequency that that exists because, you know, as long as frequency is above one, you have remarketing. Right?
00:08:07:09 – 00:08:07:15
Ralph
Right.
00:08:07:17 – 00:08:09:07
John
Well re-engagement also.
00:08:09:09 – 00:08:09:17
Ralph
Well
00:08:09:17 – 00:08:15:13
Ralph
as a signal back to the algorithm saying like this person is interested because they were on your site. Exactly. So I’m going to show more ads. Yep.
00:08:15:13 – 00:08:22:02
John
Now you took a campaign and we said, hey, I need you to not only go find new customers,
00:08:22:02 – 00:08:26:01
John
but you also have to remarket the people that you’re bringing into the site
00:08:26:01 – 00:08:38:11
John
and try to bring them back to get those new customers. Like that’s the functionality of it now, the way that it is executed, this is the optimistic side is there is no choice for Meta and Google to do this any other way means that if they bring a person to your site,
00:08:38:11 – 00:08:41:15
John
they are going to remarket them and try to bring them back to your site.
00:08:41:15 – 00:08:44:21
John
But the area where they dive into in order to
00:08:44:21 – 00:08:55:09
John
to tag that person to remarket has all users for every other channel in there. So as soon as they bring one person to the site and they say, oh, perfect, you’re there. Did you buy something? No. Okay. You left.
00:08:55:09 – 00:09:06:22
John
I have to have my pixel tag you to remarket so that one click turns into technically now potentially a 10,000 user remarketing campaign
00:09:06:22 – 00:09:08:09
John
because that’s how many people are on your site.
00:09:08:09 – 00:09:20:14
John
So the reason why that large promotional company had 4000 sales that day is because meta again, doesn’t it’s not going to remarket only its own traffic. It has to remarket everybody on your site because it might have brought them there.
00:09:20:14 – 00:09:22:08
Ralph
We don’t know. Yeah.
00:09:22:09 – 00:09:24:21
John
So by virtue of Meta and Google.
00:09:24:23 – 00:09:32:03
Ralph
They might have seen an ad, right. Maybe at some time during that day or maybe that week or whatever. But yeah.
00:09:32:04 – 00:09:40:01
John
Yeah. So that’s why the platform’s over attribute, because it’s due to the simple functionality of remarketing. They inherit users from every other channel.
00:09:40:01 – 00:09:40:14
Ralph
It’s crazy.
00:09:40:14 – 00:09:46:02
John
Stuff. And then they model data to sales probably then. So that’s why I was all channels start showing all sales that
00:09:46:02 – 00:09:46:13
John
are
00:09:46:13 – 00:09:47:22
John
the only sale that you have. So
00:09:47:22 – 00:09:54:09
John
every campaign is like TikTok. I have ten sales meta. I have ten sales in Google, I have ten sales and you only have 1010 sales.
00:09:54:09 – 00:09:57:00
Ralph
Yeah. Check Shopify. Like how many sales that I have? Ten.
00:09:57:00 – 00:10:05:19
Ralph
Right. Yeah. And I have, you know, four platforms telling me I have 40. Exactly. Yeah. And that’s really like the dilemma. That’s the thing that we were really trying to solve. Yeah. With this because
00:10:05:19 – 00:10:11:00
Ralph
we have a video. Well I think one of the times you’re on here like the, the headline was Roas sucks.
00:10:11:00 – 00:10:12:00
Ralph
And here’s why.
00:10:12:00 – 00:10:18:14
Ralph
Because it’s an in-app metric. It’s directional. However, this Capi import
00:10:18:14 – 00:10:21:05
Ralph
whatever we need a theme for this. I know
00:10:21:05 – 00:10:23:14
Ralph
we really do need a name, but anyway, I’m
00:10:23:14 – 00:10:24:12
Ralph
I’m a bad marketer.
00:10:24:12 – 00:10:25:08
Ralph
Oh,
00:10:25:08 – 00:10:29:03
Ralph
okay. Good. Better than this. ChatGPT. We’ll figure this one out. Grok. What’s the,
00:10:29:03 – 00:10:32:11
Ralph
what do we call this thing again anyway? We know it works.
00:10:32:13 – 00:10:33:21
Ralph
It’s tier 11 data suite.
00:10:33:21 – 00:10:45:01
Ralph
Last but not least, here, the one of the parts of all of this which we really haven’t talked about. And this is, this is once again, this was I was texting while I was at this meta conference and like, hey, they just mentioned content diversification.
00:10:45:01 – 00:10:49:03
Ralph
The so I was at this beta conference in New York and it was the agency conference.
00:10:49:03 – 00:11:00:00
Ralph
And every single speaker talked about diversity of creative. Yeah. And they said it in many different ways. Content. They did say content diversification. What does your,
00:11:00:00 – 00:11:16:23
Ralph
content diversity have? Lots of content. Have lots of creator content, obviously video content, you name it. Yep. You’ve identified sort of ten different types, which, you know, I always the caveat is like, you don’t necessarily have to get all the types exactly right, but it’s like directionally it’s a tool.
00:11:16:23 – 00:11:27:02
Ralph
It’s a toolbox. So yeah. Can you explain the strategy. This is what you actually see. So we’re talking about sort of the mechanics behind it obviously with this copy import solution that we have.
00:11:27:02 – 00:11:27:17
Ralph
But
00:11:27:17 – 00:11:33:19
Ralph
the front facing ads, they can’t all be the same. They can’t all be, you know, pictures of the red shoes. Right?
00:11:33:19 – 00:11:34:17
Ralph
Right. You know, so
00:11:34:17 – 00:11:36:09
Ralph
what is content diversification.
00:11:36:09 – 00:11:38:13
Ralph
Just explain it’s fruitful there and how important it is.
00:11:38:13 – 00:11:38:22
John
Yeah.
00:11:38:22 – 00:11:42:04
John
this is actually more important because of the Andromeda update that happened,
00:11:42:04 – 00:11:43:15
John
for everyone back in May.
00:11:43:15 – 00:11:47:08
John
It started in December of 2024, finalized in May of 2025.
00:11:47:08 – 00:11:49:12
John
And what the Andromeda engine does is
00:11:49:12 – 00:11:50:22
John
it uses what they call
00:11:50:22 – 00:11:51:21
John
creative retrieval.
00:11:51:21 – 00:11:53:14
John
So a creative retrieval is and
00:11:53:14 – 00:11:56:06
John
this is actually if just Google Meta Andromeda, it’s right there on the.
00:11:56:08 – 00:11:59:23
Ralph
We’ll leave links in the show notes for this one. It’s a great article is actually it’s great image.
00:12:00:03 – 00:12:01:22
John
Which shows like Nvidia’s chips how they’re using it.
00:12:02:00 – 00:12:04:17
Ralph
Oh yeah. So cool. It’s crazy I know right. So cool. Yeah.
00:12:04:19 – 00:12:08:07
John
So the the the ads retrieval engine which is Andromeda,
00:12:08:07 – 00:12:09:13
John
basically says
00:12:09:13 – 00:12:12:22
John
I need to tell a story to these users because
00:12:12:22 – 00:12:25:17
John
the functionality of Andromeda means that when the creator does a targeting, you have to consolidate your campaigns because campaign ave with ad A and campaign B with also at A is now one campaign because they’re going to target the same person.
00:12:25:17 – 00:12:33:17
John
You’re just going to double up on your underspent, right? So it has to be consolidated. Only one piece of creative can be in a campaign. It cannot also be another campaign.
00:12:33:17 – 00:12:41:18
Ralph
So as an important point, there absolutely, absolutely. And we’re talking about one campaign, one ads that and really a bunch of ads. Yeah. Which we’ll talk about.
00:12:41:18 – 00:12:50:06
John
Yeah, exactly. And you can diversify your ad set if you wanted to diversify your, your, your, your hook and offers. And we’ll talk about that here in a moment. Right. But if you have, let’s say,
00:12:50:06 – 00:12:56:00
John
ten ads and you’re like, okay, I want to create ten hours, I want to get started. What we’re going to do is
00:12:56:00 – 00:12:58:05
John
what meta wants is how do you
00:12:58:05 – 00:13:05:01
John
capture the attention, build interest, get them to also want to take an action and be happy with that action.
00:13:05:01 – 00:13:08:08
John
And you have to do it all inside of one ad set.
00:13:08:08 – 00:13:20:10
John
So they have something called like the founder story. People like buying products from people they don’t really necessarily want to buy from brand brands. They want to buy from from users and from people. That’s why UGC is so popular and social media so social.
00:13:20:10 – 00:13:24:11
John
So the founder story is like telling a person, hey, this is I’m John Brown.
00:13:24:11 – 00:13:30:07
John
The reason why I started this company is because I saw a need that no, that is is there needed to be filled
00:13:30:07 – 00:13:37:23
John
in the industry. And you’re telling the reason why that story came about? Okay. Now I understand why they’re here. And this is my product. Okay. Well what is that? I’m going to do a product highlight.
00:13:37:23 – 00:13:40:17
John
That’s another that’s another ad type is a product highlight video.
00:13:40:17 – 00:13:51:01
John
Very very simple like product that is is highlighting. And maybe my three different product highlight videos is about what’s going on. Easy to carry handle is dent proof and it keeps your drinks cold for 12 hours whatever may maybe.
00:13:51:01 – 00:13:53:19
John
And then it says, okay, now what else do we show them?
00:13:53:19 – 00:13:57:17
John
Well, we want to have some UGC, some testimonials I love this
00:13:57:17 – 00:13:58:09
John
product, this
00:13:58:09 – 00:14:14:23
John
water bottle. And I’ve used it for 12 years and it’s the best thing since sliced bread. Okay. Perfect. So now I know why you’re here, what the product is. I understand the people like it. You’re basically building a logical sequence to a sale inside of an ad set that the intro to an engine can start to show.
00:14:14:23 – 00:14:33:00
John
This ad first, second, third, fourth. Or maybe it needs to show the second ad first in the first and second, then the, you know, third, fourth and fifth. So it’s identifying what people are resonating with and then they want you to constantly iterate it because you’re not going to cost to do product development. Intro. Weak. You’re not going to call the new product they have to do that for, but you have to then
00:14:33:00 – 00:14:34:12
John
you have to do iterations.
00:14:34:12 – 00:14:35:15
John
The reason why
00:14:35:15 – 00:14:41:19
John
is with Andromeda, once they start to show an ad with a frequency of, let’s say 2 or 3 to a user, it says, okay, I’m not just going to
00:14:41:19 – 00:14:50:13
John
show that up to ten times, like I need something else to show them, like give me something so I can go reengage them. Well, perfect. So like we’ll use the remarkable talent.
00:14:50:15 – 00:14:51:04
Ralph
So
00:14:51:04 – 00:14:52:09
Ralph
remarkable. Yes.
00:14:52:09 – 00:14:55:02
John
So it’s green. That’s cool. It’s lightweight and thin.
00:14:55:02 – 00:14:55:18
Ralph
Awesome.
00:14:55:18 – 00:14:57:10
Ralph
What else? What else? Oh, the.
00:14:57:10 – 00:14:58:16
John
Battery lasts 18.
00:14:58:16 – 00:15:00:11
Ralph
Hours. Oh that’s great.
00:15:00:11 – 00:15:02:18
John
I actually can use this instead of my laptop. It’s,
00:15:02:18 – 00:15:15:18
John
you know, maybe that’s another one. You can use this to say your laptop when you’re taking notes. You don’t have this big clunky thing like, so all you’re doing is imagining you’re sitting at a booth at a convention, and I have a remarkable tab comes up here and I’ll show you what bad markers do.
00:15:15:20 – 00:15:20:18
John
So I’m sitting at a booth and I have the remarkable tab, and I work at remarkable. And someone comes up says, what’s that? I’m like 20% off.
00:15:20:18 – 00:15:22:08
John
I said, what is that?
00:15:22:10 – 00:15:23:06
Ralph
Flavor. So I
00:15:23:06 – 00:15:24:14
Ralph
buy it. What is it? I don’t
00:15:24:14 – 00:15:25:04
Ralph
get a card.
00:15:25:06 – 00:15:30:12
Ralph
So that’s what it is. That’s what we do. That’s not how humans buy. No, no. But that’s how we build ads, right?
00:15:30:12 – 00:15:31:00
Ralph
That’s it’s.
00:15:31:00 – 00:15:40:18
John
Really cool. And we’ll make some like a Starburst come out the back of it and say 20% off sale. It’s like, grow up. It’s right. So you have to tell them, well, what is it? It’s remarkable. What’s that? It’s a drawing tablet. Okay.
00:15:40:18 – 00:15:50:22
John
Pen and paper does that buy. Yeah. So you have to think about how you’re actually doing like old school belly to belly sales and telling people about the product and why it’s unique and why people like it.
00:15:50:22 – 00:15:56:00
John
That kind of stuff. You have to do that remotely and all kind of inside of one campaign and one asset.
00:15:56:00 – 00:16:00:10
John
And so that’s the that’s create diversification is as long as you’re constantly iterating good points,
00:16:00:10 – 00:16:05:13
John
developing new concepts and new hooks into offers in order to identify what has a good,
00:16:05:13 – 00:16:10:03
John
good reception in the market. And then you’re going to steer more into that.
00:16:10:03 – 00:16:16:05
John
And as long as you’re continually optimizing those ads and doing iterations is constantly reengaging, those people
00:16:16:05 – 00:16:23:19
John
who are converting and because you’re using first click edge tag, new customer imports, those can be repeated and grow in a very, very specific way.
00:16:23:21 – 00:16:24:07
Ralph
Yeah.
00:16:24:07 – 00:16:36:09
Ralph
So that the on that so we used sort of there’s three sort of examples of the multiple ones that we use, we sort of have a box that we look at. It’s really it’s ten. It’s it’s also got like you know
00:16:36:09 – 00:16:42:08
Ralph
in addition to founder story, there’s like us versus them. There’s, you know, product features and benefits.
00:16:42:08 – 00:16:48:10
Ralph
There’s a number of different ones. But anyway, the point is, is when you’re putting these ads into an ad set,
00:16:48:10 – 00:16:51:15
Ralph
the question came up yesterday on the same client call,
00:16:51:15 – 00:17:04:00
Ralph
was, all right, we’re doing this content diversification strategy that is highlighting different parts of your story, who you are, what the benefits are. It’s resonating with certain audiences.
00:17:04:01 – 00:17:07:14
Ralph
At what point do you say, well, that creative isn’t
00:17:07:14 – 00:17:22:14
Ralph
actually doing anything to acquire new customers? For me, at what point in the how do you guide media buyers internally at your 11 say, all right, well, that’s when you have to shut that one off. That’s when you have to do more of that one. Yeah. So
00:17:22:14 – 00:17:23:09
Ralph
I was that all
00:17:23:09 – 00:17:23:15
Ralph
in.
00:17:23:15 – 00:17:25:04
John
It’s actually fairly simplistic
00:17:25:04 – 00:17:28:12
John
manner. Will do a lot of that for you initially. What I mean by that is
00:17:28:12 – 00:17:38:20
John
if you have, let’s say ten ads and you always have pro-rata rule where 80% of our sales are coming from 20% of your ads. And even though you got you may have good spend allocation, which means ten ads you have.
00:17:38:22 – 00:17:44:08
John
You know, if you look at the last 30 days, you’re going to spend ten grand, that nine grand, that acre, and on that seven grand on that. You always see the waterfall
00:17:44:08 – 00:17:47:14
John
of the ads, basically from top to bottom and usually see the results.
00:17:47:14 – 00:17:48:07
John
And
00:17:48:07 – 00:17:56:20
John
when you start to see ads that have a higher and higher CPA and then you’ll see the ads, those same as have higher CPA also start to earn less ad spend.
00:17:56:22 – 00:18:14:21
John
So media feeds, more ads bend to what is working. And that is typically by your hook rate and also your CPA like you got click the rate in there. But it doesn’t seem to really take up much of an effect, because it could also be a video that is shown to him. So, you know, you don’t really need to have the clicks, but says it can count when they engage view and when they view.
00:18:14:21 – 00:18:26:01
John
You still have CPA. So a lot of times what you’ll see is and and we’ll have like a trend line of spend that is kind of like in a heartbeat. And then all of a sudden it just kind of like starts to die off and it’s like, okay, we’re spending $100 a day now I’m only spending about 12.
00:18:26:01 – 00:18:45:23
John
And then even last week it was down to seven, and yesterday was a dollar like it will actually just start to kind of turn it off when it no longer needs it or what it says. I’m not actually finding any audiences that are resonated with this, or I have other as a resonating better with okay. And so when you start to see what ads have the highest amount of ad spend or what ad spend is increasing or growing, especially as you’re scaling, if more money is being given to that ad,
00:18:45:23 – 00:18:50:14
John
that’s your first indication to say, okay, that is a winning ad, or at least my to believe so because my company is also doing
00:18:50:14 – 00:19:05:06
John
better. How do I iterate that? How do I make a new version and maybe do a different hook or a slightly different concept of that ad? And that’s that’s where meta is basically saying like, hey, here’s your winners, here’s your I’m spending the most amount of money on it. If, you know, you might need a lot of people just say, oh, it’s spending too much money.
00:19:05:06 – 00:19:20:06
John
Let’s pause it. No, no, you want to make five new versions of that if it has a high amount of ad spend, because that is what is finding really good pockets of users. And if you can create five additional points now the people that just found out about what, like what your company is and or what your product is,
00:19:20:06 – 00:19:23:02
John
you’re going to now be able to tell them five other things about that.
00:19:23:02 – 00:19:26:08
John
You convinced them through the logical sequence of a sale to buy your product or service.
00:19:26:08 – 00:19:39:16
Ralph
So the platform itself does dictate the winners and losers, which is was never the case before. No, it was like, I don’t really care where I spend just as long as I’m spending your money. Yeah. So those ones that just sort of Peter out,
00:19:39:16 – 00:19:44:01
Ralph
are eventually just going to be paused by the media buyer in that particular case.
00:19:44:06 – 00:19:45:19
John
Yeah. Meta. Basically just got rid of maybe. Oh,
00:19:45:19 – 00:19:46:06
Ralph
it. Yeah.
00:19:46:06 – 00:19:53:13
Ralph
They figured it out for themselves. So how about in the case where are there scenarios. And this was actually another question that I had where
00:19:53:13 – 00:19:58:23
Ralph
there is more spend. But the cGPA in app is horrible.
00:19:58:23 – 00:20:05:07
Ralph
But you’re seeing on the CRM things moving in the right direction. What do you do in those cases.
00:20:05:07 – 00:20:06:12
Ralph
Like what’s that said.
00:20:06:12 – 00:20:09:07
John
And that’s what we have to look at is we already know that
00:20:09:07 – 00:20:18:23
John
not common where people are just going to like see an ad, click the ad and buy the products. The first time that happens, it does take some time. There’s a time lag, there’s a sales cycle, there’s a sales process.
00:20:18:23 – 00:20:25:08
John
Now, if you have ten ads, that all had an actual impact on the user in order to purchase something.
00:20:25:10 – 00:20:30:08
John
But the attribution of meta says, Will you get to have one point and it’s last click?
00:20:30:08 – 00:20:38:02
John
Remember meta attributions, last click attribution. So if I have ten ads and but I can only give credit to one of those. But they all are equal.
00:20:38:02 – 00:20:40:06
John
What do you do. Like where do you put that.
00:20:40:06 – 00:20:42:06
John
Where do you put that. So it has to go to the last click.
00:20:42:06 – 00:20:45:22
John
So what I’ve been using as is CPA is good. I understand it,
00:20:45:22 – 00:20:49:12
John
but just because it wasn’t the last thing doesn’t mean that it wasn’t,
00:20:49:12 – 00:20:56:18
John
you know, the best. Because honestly, the last thing may not really have much of an impact at all on the decision making process. So the person
00:20:56:18 – 00:20:58:15
John
is if I said like, hey, it’s remarkable.
00:20:58:15 – 00:21:11:03
John
Tab again. Yeah. So this is the remarkable tab. While it’s cool it does this is this is this is this okay. And then the last thing says it also comes a bit of sponsor I know. Right. Like oh my god. But if the last thing was just like it also comes in gray and you’re like I don’t give a shit, I want the blue one.
00:21:11:03 – 00:21:26:14
John
And you click the ad anyway and you buy it. It’s not like, oh my God, this ad is amazing. Not really. It was everything combined together. So we have to look at ad spending interactions more so than what was the last click that they did because we were going to skip over the other nine reasons on how they got there.
00:21:26:17 – 00:21:32:20
John
So CPA in-app is okay. It’s it’s directional, but I use it actually very, very little when we’re looking at,
00:21:32:20 – 00:21:37:15
John
how the ads are performing. And that’s where I kind of go back to this statement. I think we were we’re making originally, which is
00:21:37:15 – 00:21:39:17
John
if you have good concepts
00:21:39:17 – 00:21:42:15
John
and you’re testing those concepts with good,
00:21:42:15 – 00:21:43:13
John
with good nomenclature.
00:21:43:13 – 00:21:48:18
John
So concept one hook one offer one concept one hook to offer one concept one hook three offer one
00:21:48:18 – 00:21:52:18
John
you can identify. Okay. This one seems to have more ads been this is a better hook
00:21:52:18 – 00:21:59:19
John
okay. Does it is it working well. Can you make 2 or 3 other variations? Does it also perform as good, maybe a little bit worse or even better than that was happening?
00:21:59:19 – 00:22:05:14
John
Yes. Do we see the other hooks now earning less ad spend. Yes. Okay. That’s the direction we’re headed. That’s the one. Yep.
00:22:05:16 – 00:22:07:16
Ralph
It’s just that simple.
00:22:07:16 – 00:22:15:16
Ralph
Yeah. Well, it’s that simple if you have the right data. Really. And it’s it really does come back to you. And now you need a, like a top notch creative.
00:22:15:18 – 00:22:16:04
John
Oh yeah.
00:22:16:04 – 00:22:19:03
John
what’s funny is this is the other point that is actually really interesting.
00:22:19:03 – 00:22:22:23
John
We don’t create ads for people anymore. We have to create ads for AI first.
00:22:22:23 – 00:22:23:10
John
Yeah.
00:22:23:10 – 00:22:28:23
John
We have to convince meta that this is what product we have. And the meta says, okay, understand I will go find the user now.
00:22:29:02 – 00:22:38:02
John
Yeah. So if again if you’re at is hey guys, what’s that thing on your table over there. Might say 20% off. Yeah. Imagine telling that to a robot. Yeah. You’re gonna be even more confused in the person.
00:22:38:02 – 00:22:40:09
Ralph
Absolutely. Oh my god. So true.
00:22:40:09 – 00:22:45:09
Ralph
the big thing is, is lots of different types of content, lots of different angles, obviously
00:22:45:09 – 00:22:49:19
Ralph
don’t necessarily believe everything that you see inside of the platform
00:22:49:19 – 00:22:55:04
Ralph
itself, knowing full well that we’re talking about anywhere between 40 to 60% of it is modeled,
00:22:55:04 – 00:22:57:19
Ralph
you know, whether you take a negative or a positive view on that.
00:22:57:19 – 00:23:04:08
Ralph
I mean, they’re trying to do what’s best for them, but also they’re trying to keep you coming back, obviously to spend money.
00:23:04:08 – 00:23:07:02
Ralph
So there’s sort of a fine line between all these things.
00:23:07:02 – 00:23:10:03
Ralph
I guess the real question here is, is,
00:23:10:03 – 00:23:18:14
Ralph
if people wanted to find out more and understand this and if they said, this is all great, John Moran, like, where do they where do they go?
00:23:18:16 – 00:23:19:17
Ralph
Are they going over to,
00:23:19:17 – 00:23:22:23
Ralph
like going over to the website that I think you might be directing them to
00:23:22:23 – 00:23:24:10
Ralph
over at the ad lamp. Yeah,
00:23:24:10 – 00:23:24:17
Ralph
yeah.
00:23:24:17 – 00:23:28:11
Ralph
I mean, if you want to learn more about this, obviously tune in every, every Friday,
00:23:28:11 – 00:23:32:00
Ralph
the ad lab or on the tier 11 YouTube channel. I’ll leave that link in the show notes.
00:23:32:00 – 00:23:39:23
Ralph
And of course, if you say, screw this, I don’t want to do any of this sort of stuff. I don’t want to teach any of my media buyers or my staff how to do it. I just want somebody else to do it for me.
00:23:39:23 – 00:23:44:20
Ralph
You know, you get John’s expertise, John’s expertise, like you really invented this concept.
00:23:44:20 – 00:23:47:00
Ralph
You discovered it through your own,
00:23:47:00 – 00:23:53:05
Ralph
your own money and your own businesses, like six, seven, $8 million worth of testing and spending.
00:23:53:06 – 00:23:55:18
John
600 K a month in our one campaign now, I mean.
00:23:55:18 – 00:23:56:23
Ralph
Unbelievable. Yeah.
00:23:56:23 – 00:23:58:13
Ralph
That’s crazy. Yeah. It’s nuts.
00:23:58:13 – 00:24:06:07
Ralph
And, you know, again, the CPAs that you guys know, you obviously we use that as an example. There’s a number of other examples that we use and screen shares on this those Friday lives
00:24:06:07 – 00:24:09:05
Ralph
of course if you want our help you can get it over at tier 11
00:24:09:05 – 00:24:13:02
Ralph
uh.com/apply and you get this type of expertise.
00:24:13:02 – 00:24:13:15
Ralph
So
00:24:13:15 – 00:24:14:05
Ralph
we talked about
00:24:14:05 – 00:24:22:18
Ralph
some of these individual businesses that the results that we’re seeing are pretty remarkable. The key is, is to set it up right. You know, remarkable. You should be,
00:24:22:18 – 00:24:25:20
Ralph
you know, filling out the perpetual traffic advertise with a warm,
00:24:25:20 – 00:24:29:07
Ralph
getting on as a sponsor here, or maybe not as much free potentially.
00:24:29:08 – 00:24:31:06
Ralph
Like, why would I pay three?
00:24:31:06 – 00:24:33:11
Ralph
Hopefully. Well, good. Keep begging. You know, saying our name.
00:24:33:11 – 00:24:35:10
Ralph
It was like 17 times.
00:24:35:10 – 00:24:38:08
Ralph
Where can people connect with you specifically? Yeah.
00:24:38:08 – 00:24:41:18
John
By LinkedIn. It is the best. Yeah. So my LinkedIn, I don’t have, like a website or anything.
00:24:41:18 – 00:24:44:05
John
But LinkedIn is is the best. But if you want to like kind of
00:24:44:05 – 00:24:49:08
John
also learn about this where we, we do a lot of testing in the, in the ad lab and then Friday’s that that
00:24:49:08 – 00:24:50:18
John
was a 3:00 eastern.
00:24:50:23 – 00:24:53:01
Ralph
Right. Two 3233 yeah, yeah. 232
00:24:53:01 – 00:24:55:15
Ralph
yeah, we’re on Pacific time right now. So yeah, no idea what time.
00:24:55:17 – 00:25:01:08
John
And I just got back from the UK like as I got. So I was like, oh, six hours ahead to normal to three hours behind. I’m like, well.
00:25:01:09 – 00:25:08:02
Ralph
You know, I’m going there from here tomorrow. So I’m like, I won’t even know what day it is tomorrow. So weird. Yeah. But yeah, Friday is.
00:25:08:04 – 00:25:08:10
John
The 30th,
00:25:08:10 – 00:25:08:19
John
30.
00:25:08:19 – 00:25:10:00
Ralph
Eastern over at
00:25:10:00 – 00:25:10:23
Ralph
the tier 11. Yeah.
00:25:10:23 – 00:25:11:16
Ralph
Because we, we.
00:25:11:16 – 00:25:26:11
John
We teach them case study style. And that’s why I love is, you know, conversation is great. Like, this seems like theory. But we do a lot of case study. Like once we did this see here we press the button and then we roll it. This is what happened. And like it’s very hyper specific right over a lot of people’s heads.
00:25:26:11 – 00:25:29:07
John
But some getting harder. So you know, I mean you could
00:25:29:07 – 00:25:33:04
John
you could take the approach. It’s like, well, as long as it’s a conversion from somewhere, I’m happy, but
00:25:33:04 – 00:25:40:08
John
it always will work until it doesn’t. And then I always say, if you’re not understanding why it’s doing well, you won’t know how to fix it when it’s not doing well.
00:25:40:08 – 00:25:43:12
John
Yeah. So that’s that’s what this does is it allows you to identify
00:25:43:12 – 00:25:46:10
John
okay. That is actually doing well. And I know why. Because I can see it.
00:25:46:10 – 00:25:48:04
John
You know it’s good data in. Good data out.
00:25:48:04 – 00:26:01:00
Ralph
Yeah. Very sage words of advice. Well of course, all the links and everything that we mentioned here at our on the show notes over at Perpetual traffic.com. Of course, like I said, if you need our help, you need John’s help. It’s,
00:26:01:00 – 00:26:04:22
Ralph
tier 11.com/apply. Obviously, we’d love to talk to you about how we can
00:26:04:22 – 00:26:11:03
Ralph
help you out doing all of the things that we mentioned here inside your business to scaling real businesses, because that’s what we love doing.
00:26:11:04 – 00:26:14:05
Ralph
Oh yeah. We love doing it. Yeah. It’s an addiction.
00:26:14:05 – 00:26:21:06
Ralph
There’s nothing like it. So from sunny San Diego. Yeah, yeah. You’re going to be on stage. You probably have to get some money. Yeah, yeah.
00:26:21:06 – 00:26:23:23
Ralph
You get something to eat before you actually get on stage.
00:26:23:23 – 00:26:24:23
Ralph
Break a leg today.
00:26:24:23 – 00:26:27:01
John
Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for having me on here. Yeah.
00:26:27:01 – 00:26:28:01
Ralph
Absolutely. Great.
00:26:28:01 – 00:26:38:18
Ralph
The first time. No, I actually live on perpetual traffic. You’re actually the most popular guests on the show. That’s the one. You have the highest rank shows. So there you go. So
00:26:38:18 – 00:26:40:04
Ralph
good. More drama and the better.
00:26:40:04 – 00:26:43:15
Ralph
All right, well, wherever you listen to podcasts, obviously leave us rating and or
00:26:43:15 – 00:26:46:13
Ralph
review. We’ll read that out on the air, of course.
00:26:46:13 – 00:26:46:20
Ralph
And,
00:26:46:20 – 00:26:55:10
Ralph
it allows us to get to a wider audience and teach people how to do this stuff the right way through metrics that matter and growth that scales ultimately. So
00:26:55:10 – 00:27:00:00
Ralph
on behalf of John Moran, thank you once again for coming on the actual traffic.
00:27:00:00 – 00:27:01:22
Ralph
Until next show. See if.
