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Are you trying to squeeze every last bit out of Meta, Google, and TikTok but still missing a piece of the growth puzzle? What if one of the most powerful performance channels is hiding in plain sight on your TV? That’s exactly the concept we dig into today as we explore the opportunities inside connected TV and why it’s becoming a must-have in every marketer’s media mix.
We’re joined by Vibhor Kapoor, Chief Business Officer at NextRoll, to unpack how CTV has evolved from a “big brand awareness play” into a precision-targeted, full-funnel performance channel. We get into CPM shifts, attribution clarity, identity graphs, retargeting flows, and the wild amount of audience-level data available inside modern streaming platforms.
Plus, we talk about how repurposed social creatives, not $200K production shoots, are already driving 2–3X stronger ROAS for brands and B2B companies. As you build your 2026 plan, this conversation will redefine multi-channel advertising and where the smartest budget shifts are happening.
In this episode:
04:00 What NextRoll does now: the evolution
08:29 How NextRoll handles attribution on social platforms
14:44 Why AI-driven budget optimization is necessary
19:29 What is CTV and why is it exploding?
25:35 CPM shifts in CTV targeting
28:14 Targeting and retargeting CTV ads across devices
33:22 Real-world CTV results
38:08 What marketers must know for 2026
Resources mentioned in this episode:
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Connect with Vibhor Kapoor:
- Website: https://www.adroll.com/
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vibhor
Connect with Ralph Burns:
- LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/ralphburns
- Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/ralphhburns/
- Hire Tier11 – https://www.tiereleven.com/apply-now
Connect with Lauren Petrullo:
- Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/laurenepetrullo/
- LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurenpetrullo
- Consult Mongoose Media – https://mongoosemedia.us/
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READ THE TRANSCRIPT:
5 Secrets of AdRoll’s CTV Breakthrough REVEALED With Vibhor Kapoor
00:00:00:00 – 00:00:08:15
Vibor
You need to think about connected TV as a full funnel channel. Think about it as a performance channel as well.
00:00:08:17 – 00:00:13:03
Ralph
This is a platform I think that businesses need to understand, especially if you’re marketing online right now.
00:00:13:04 – 00:00:23:03
Lauren
There’s so much more precision targeting inside CTV than any of us thought. What should people start thinking about and be aware of? As a lot of people are going to start planning their 2026 budgets.
00:00:23:08 – 00:00:26:03
Vibor
I’ll give you two. And one is.
00:00:27:14 – 00:00:57:21
Ralph
Hey, before we get into today’s show, just a quick reminder that we are still offering the creative diversification package over it to your 1130 plus creatives per month, 5 to 7 variations every single week. Plus, you get the media buying and the tier 11 data suite for free. This offer is through the end of the year, and now is the perfect time for you to meet with our team and plan out your Q1, Q2, and Q3 exactly like we’re going to be talking about here.
00:00:57:23 – 00:01:19:15
Ralph
The learnings that you will gain from Black Friday, Cyber Monday. This is the opportune time to talk with our team about how you can crush it in 2026, using creative diversification. It’s the biggest breakthrough on meta since ads in the newsfeed back in 2013. Once again, you buy the creative diversification package, you get the media buying and the tier 11 data suite for free.
00:01:19:17 – 00:01:25:10
Ralph
Limited time offer through the end of the year. Check it out over at tier 11. Com forward slash CD.
00:01:25:21 – 00:01:41:08
Ralph
Hello and welcome to the Perpetual Traffic Podcast. This is your host, Ralph Burns, founder and CEO of tier 11. Alongside my Travel globe hopping, conference loving co-host.
00:01:41:13 – 00:01:53:21
Lauren
Lauren, he drew a among his media end of wherever today’s destination is. This is my last conference of the year, Ralph. So yes.
00:01:53:23 – 00:02:14:15
Ralph
I’m just kind of wondering when you’re ever going to get home. But anyway, yeah, if you hear some, some strange noises in the background, it’s just yet another Ryan Days conference. I believe that you’re at today. So, anyway, we’ll just blame Ryan because we can. Because he used to own the show, but now he doesn’t. So anyway, I just always like to remind people of that.
00:02:14:17 – 00:02:24:11
Ralph
So anyway, so we are here today. Yeah. One of the things that’s cool, by the way, before we get into today’s guest, who we have never talked about any of the stuff that he’s going to be talking about.
00:02:24:11 – 00:02:27:02
Lauren
Today, we have and it’s so exciting.
00:02:27:04 – 00:02:49:23
Ralph
I know it’s almost like 800 shows now. It’s like he’s going to talk about something we’ve never talked about, but a little shout out to our friends over at Spotify. We now have well over a hundred reviews or 100 ratings ratings slash review over on Spotify. And we, I think, went onto that platform less than like a year ago.
00:02:50:01 – 00:03:09:01
Ralph
We weren’t even on the platform. We were averaging about 4.8 stars, which is insane to me. So and that’s not even me like self grading us because I can’t even do it when I’m logged into Spotify. So, you keep track of this stuff way more than I do, but I just thank everybody who’s listening on Spotify and everybody listen to the show.
00:03:09:03 – 00:03:24:23
Ralph
We’re really trying to teach you how to do, marketing the right way through metrics that matter, growth at scales and bring new stuff to the table here, which is hopefully what we’re going to be doing here today. So do you do you feel, star worthy Lauren, with all those five star reviews?
00:03:25:01 – 00:03:42:16
Lauren
Oh, I of course I do. My ego can keep growing bigger and bigger and bigger. The only thing that I don’t like about Spotify is you can’t leave a qualitative review. All you can do is drop a number of stars. So if someone’s being lazy, doesn’t know how many, are where to leave reviews. Spotify is super easy.
00:03:42:18 – 00:03:45:15
Lauren
You only have one option five stars.
00:03:45:17 – 00:04:04:02
Ralph
Yeah, you can leave comments though, so we do respond to the comments, but those are kind of far and few between. Anyway, thanks for everyone who has left us a rating and review. And we’ve got, you know, well over 800 reviews over on Apple. So anyway, enough about us. Let’s get into today’s guest. We are super excited to have Vaibhav Kapoor.
00:04:04:04 – 00:04:24:12
Ralph
I believe I pronounce that correctly, he is the Chief Business Officer at Next Raw and you’re like what is next role? Well, the reason why he is on is because you probably don’t know that next role is actually the parent company of what a lot of you might be aware of is ad role, and ad role isn’t what you think it is.
00:04:24:12 – 00:04:31:03
Ralph
And that’s why we have Vaibhav here today. So welcome to Perpetual Traffic to spread the word on what you guys do over there.
00:04:31:03 – 00:04:52:05
Vibor
Thank you Ralph. Thank you Lauren. Excited to be here. And yes, you may have known about ad roll from the past as the retargeting platform, but we’re in a very different company today. Having gone through our growth and shifting our strategy over the last 15 years. But excited to be here. Thank you for hosting us.
00:04:52:07 – 00:04:57:20
Vibor
And congratulations on all those reviews. I know it takes a lot to do things right to get there.
00:04:57:22 – 00:05:01:02
Ralph
Yeah, I we didn’t even bribe anybody to do it, which is incredible to me.
00:05:01:03 – 00:05:13:00
Lauren
So and we definitely never took any of our friends phones or new people we’ve met at conferences and demanded that we go into their Spotify accounts. Never, ever, ever have we ever done that.
00:05:13:02 – 00:05:37:11
Ralph
No, actually, I think Lauren has done that a couple of times. But anyway, it just adds a few things to the, to the equation here, I bet. So tell us about like, what you guys are doing, because I don’t think people realize what the platform is all about anymore. And as a former affiliate, as somebody who has used AD in the past as a pure retargeting play, a lot has changed.
00:05:37:11 – 00:05:55:03
Ralph
So maybe just give us an overview of how the company has changed. Obviously, it seems like there’s been some maybe some acquisitions and some other things that have gone on along the way. But yeah, this is a platform I think that businesses need to understand, especially if you’re marketing online right now. We ourselves are now doing programmatic CTV.
00:05:55:03 – 00:06:04:06
Ralph
So it’s, you know, from a selfish standpoint, that’s one of the reasons why I wanted to have who are on here today. But give us a little bit of background as to how the company has sort of evolved and what you guys are doing now.
00:06:04:09 – 00:06:33:06
Vibor
Yeah, absolutely. Having to do that. So you are right that we were born about 15 years back. We were really focused on retargeting, and primarily for display. And we’ve come a long way over the last 15 years. So the way I describe Andrew today is like a connected advertising platform. And what we do is we work with brands and agencies helping them run what I say full funnel multichannel marketing campaigns.
00:06:33:08 – 00:07:06:10
Vibor
So what do I mean by that? We’re no longer just a retargeting platform. We have campaign strategies that you can activate which are full funnel, which means if you have prospects that are early stage in your funnel, they are at awareness and research. We engage with them. If you want to run, campaigns which are lower funnel, we help you run those and we help you run those campaigns using our platform, which is deeply integrated into other CRM systems as well as e-commerce systems.
00:07:06:10 – 00:07:33:17
Vibor
So think about Shopify, think about HubSpot, think about Salesforce. And we do this across both B to C and B2B. So you think about, yeah, you know, a yoga mat company, think about a nutrition company that’s really trying to engage their audience in a direct to consumer context versus a tech company which is trying to reach out to audiences, which might be a business decision makers buying a piece of tech, maybe a cybersecurity solution.
00:07:33:19 – 00:07:59:06
Vibor
We work across both B2C and B2B, across all stages of the funnel, but also across channels, which is, I think, a good t off to the conversation we want to have today. So we will primarily display and over the course of the last few years, we’ve evolved into social as well as we have evolved now into CTV, which is a really exciting new space.
00:07:59:12 – 00:08:25:05
Vibor
As more and more time is spent there. So that’s that’s what we are. I would say we just don’t run campaigns. Of course you want to be efficient with what you do. So we have tools for cross-channel attribution. And of course, with everything that’s happening in a genetic world, you have agents which can help you go run campaigns, understand performance and optimize those campaigns.
00:08:25:06 – 00:08:29:14
Vibor
So that’s where we are. And, excited about the future.
00:08:29:16 – 00:08:43:20
Ralph
Yeah. So when you say social, we can get into connected TV because I don’t think it’s necessarily I think people understand somewhat what connected TV is. Maybe we can just explain that a bit further. But when you say social, that was an aspect I wasn’t familiar with. What?
00:08:43:21 – 00:08:50:11
Lauren
Oh, I was all sat down. I was like, what now? Social? Literally. I was like, writing my notes was like, say, more?
00:08:50:12 – 00:09:17:03
Vibor
Yep. Apparently there are two places on social where we work with our customers. One is in terms of understanding performance. So we have a product called cross-channel attribution. And what we’ve done is we, we offer integrations into multiple platforms, and social tends to be one where there are several campaigns that customers are running, and we help them measure the performance of those campaigns.
00:09:17:05 – 00:09:40:11
Vibor
So typically, what happens when you’re a marketer and you’re wanting to understand your performance? You are looking at each of the channels and their performance in isolation. And when you try to look at the collective performance, you your head starts to spin, because what you see is that there is inflated outcomes that the collection of all those, comes to you.
00:09:40:13 – 00:10:13:12
Vibor
So what we do is we look at UTM performance across multiple channels, and we give you different attribution models, and we give you two data for you to be able to see all which channels are having, what contribution to what kind of campaigns. I’m running, whether it’s at awareness, research or consideration. So cross-channel attribution is one dimension where we play in terms of marketing, and digital marketing.
00:10:13:17 – 00:10:51:12
Vibor
The other aspect is on LinkedIn. So as I called out earlier, we have a product for account based marketing which uses our advertising technology, also has go to market orchestration of campaigns. And there we give the ability for customers to be able to place media budgets in LinkedIn through the deep integration that we build LinkedIn. So LinkedIn as a channel and the rest of social as performance, attribution and measurement is how we solve for for social.
00:10:51:14 – 00:11:00:21
Ralph
So when you talk about attribution, are we talking about a view a click like how is that measured. You know top middle bottom of funnel. All that.
00:11:00:23 – 00:11:29:17
Vibor
In terms of the attribution, I’m talking about the attribution model, whether it’s last leg weighted first leg, we give you the ability for you to be able to understand your attribution using any of those models. And then certainly depending on the channel, you may have a certain measure that’s more relevant. Right. So, that’s that that’s what our strategy is, which is give a, a platform a cycle.
00:11:29:18 – 00:11:41:01
Vibor
Switzerland of, measurement and attribution so that marketers can make a judgment in terms of what channel is working most for them.
00:11:41:01 – 00:12:13:11
Lauren
So when you say like working most for them, I’m just like like I’m going back to the the different pieces, like it’s going to come back in June because like you said, you’re connected to Shopify to connect to Salesforce, your contact to the home spot. So you’re taking where the user is living and having all those pieces. And so then when you have all these multi touchpoints, do you see a lot of the brands that are not just like taking the pieces of Admiral so they have more effective campaigns, but do you then see them also leveraging those insights to drive better offer decisions.
00:12:13:11 – 00:12:35:10
Lauren
Because of that multi-channel approach. And like I know it’s going to come further to like the TV side of where you’re just pushing people will probably things like pushing awareness, but like how much of that information when you’re looking at, you said cross-channel attribution and like having all those pieces come into like marketing directors purview to make smarter, offer decisions.
00:12:35:12 – 00:13:00:15
Vibor
Yep. And that’s really the end goal on your your point is spot on, which is, yeah, you want to understand the performance and attribution of different channels, but to what end? The end is you want to drive optimizations of your spend. And once you understand on these in a dedupe to data across multiple channels, then you can make smart decisions.
00:13:00:16 – 00:13:02:10
Vibor
And I know.
00:13:02:11 – 00:13:10:23
Lauren
Be like, yeah, not dedupe, but triple can’t do or like it’s not just duplicate as ad twice. It’s like quadruple click.
00:13:11:01 – 00:13:36:05
Vibor
Yep yep. And this insight from all of this was the inside. The drill of this product was digital marketers coming to us and saying, wow. When I look at the performance of each of the channels individually, and when I look at my outcomes, the data doesn’t match my I’m always head scratching. How do I understand the contribution of each of these channels?
00:13:36:06 – 00:14:09:21
Vibor
So that was the insight we were leveraging to go with develop this product. And then what’s the end game? The end game is you should be able to drive optimizations. In fact, in some of our new tools that we have built using AI assistants, we launched this about ten weeks back. We wanted to give the ability for digital marketers to be able to not just create campaigns, understand this performance, and then be able to drive the optimizations under certain guardrails.
00:14:09:21 – 00:14:44:00
Vibor
Imagine a world where you saying, hey, display is working better for me with this customer. If you’re showing multiple agencies, then CTV or CTV is working better than social, right? I will. I give you the guardrails to shift budget up to 10% from one channel to the other. That’s the world that we are designing for, which is have the guardrails, have the optimizations that can be automated and they’re human assisted when there’s self-learning that’s involved.
00:14:44:02 – 00:15:00:19
Lauren
That’s the objective stuff that you spoke about earlier. Right. And therefore that’s the agenda pieces. Whoa. I mean, I just think of like, how many times do I like with our team? Like we have strategists, we have many buyers, we have the creative production team. And then we’re looking at where can we put our dollars in the most cost effective way.
00:15:00:20 – 00:15:21:09
Lauren
You talk about LinkedIn as the social person I like, I immediately text Ralph. I’m like, why would I run ads inside of LinkedIn directly? It feels like it’s disadvantageous. But you’re saying, look, the reality is, is you need to start having a global view. And so, hey, business owners that are working with tons and tons of different agencies, they’re not talking to each other.
00:15:21:09 – 00:15:45:08
Lauren
And when they’re not talking to each other, neither is your revenue driving systems. And so what you’re offering in this solution, especially as it pertains to LinkedIn, you can then shift budgets to LinkedIn. If you’re seeing like thought leadership campaigns driving more strategic value or shifting to the CTV ads, let’s say, like something on Netflix or Hulu is driving a lot more representation in certain markets.
00:15:45:10 – 00:16:06:14
Lauren
All that to say, those are genetic flows. And where it’s going is what every brand owner and agency owner like. And you’re just like, oh my gosh, thank gosh. Because it’s manual and it’s expensive. And especially when like for us, we have to partner with other agencies that our brands are working with and get this information. And they’re like, I don’t want to show you my data because I don’t want you to audit us or come up for our business.
00:16:06:14 – 00:16:15:17
Lauren
I’m like, I need to know the halo lift. Like it’s it’s this competition field that you’re trying to say is is coming to an end.
00:16:15:19 – 00:16:22:00
Lauren
Like, I don’t have to demand from other agencies the information it’s going to show and then allocate the budgets most cost effectively.
00:16:22:02 – 00:16:53:18
Vibor
Oh, dang. I am optimistic about the future. And I think it’s early days, but I absolutely see a future where you see, human assisted, more autonomous agent that can help take the mundane away and help you make smarter decisions. Do I see that? Absolutely. But we are also like ten weeks into this, right? And I think if you look at the workflow of a digital marketer, right, the these are the first set of basic workflows.
00:16:53:18 – 00:17:19:08
Vibor
Create a campaign with agility, understand performance by running some reports in an automated manner. Right. And be able to have a conversational interface to say I won’t be the report of this particular campaign in this geography, right to going in doing optimizations under, certain guardrails. But that’s just a subset of all the workflows that a digital marketer has.
00:17:19:08 – 00:17:34:05
Vibor
So I think the potential of 1015, most of the most significant workflows and then getting more it can take is absolutely there. I feel I feel excited about it. I feel confident about it.
00:17:34:08 – 00:17:48:04
Lauren
All right. I was getting so excited. I was like, oh my gosh, it’s less mundane and more marketing. And that’s what agencies are being hired to do. But we’re getting caught in the weeds of all this project management, mundane at times busywork. Like sometimes it’s like there’s a substitute teacher and you just have to do the things you have to do.
00:17:48:09 – 00:18:06:16
Lauren
But I think it’s important because you need to have that level of client communication. But I mean, I’m like stealing them, like no more mundane, more marketing. And that’s the direction, like you said, it’s going where ten weeks. And like, you know, we see this hockey stick of how AI is being integrated well for tech teams and what the agenda, clothes and that type of stuff.
00:18:06:21 – 00:18:11:20
Lauren
But like, sorry, I like your optimism. It’s so nice to hear this.
00:18:11:22 – 00:18:36:14
Vibor
And I think at the core of all of this is our fundamental belief that great marketing firstly, you should save and copyright that less mundane, more marketing. I like that, but I think at the core of all of this is a principle that we operate under, which is great marketing is not focusing on 1 or 2 channels, but it’s multi-channel.
00:18:36:19 – 00:19:01:11
Vibor
And why? Because audience spend time across multiple channels. And if you really have to engage your audience, you have to think in a multi-channel world, and you have to measure a number of that channel work, and you have to optimize, and you have to keep looking at your media mix. And I think we have gone through many trend chasing phases in our industry.
00:19:01:11 – 00:19:05:00
Vibor
So I would say if there was one takeaway, I would say, I think across channels.
00:19:05:02 – 00:19:26:21
Ralph
Yeah, well we’ve been we’ve been advocating that for years, but still, still I usually find it CEOs, they’re like no, no, no, no, no, I need to know exactly how much Google is pulling for me. Meta’s pulling for me. You know, my native advertising, my organic, my SEO, all these sorts of things. It just doesn’t work that way because they all work in an ecosystem.
00:19:26:22 – 00:19:46:23
Ralph
You should actually look at it as a in an ML world. The part to this, I think that maybe the traffic listener hasn’t really heard much about maybe once or twice in the course of the history of the show is connected TV. Just give us an overview. When started talks about an OTT connected TV like what is it?
00:19:47:01 – 00:20:05:03
Ralph
Why should the small to mid-sized business the agency owner continue? Like think about adding this to their media mix here, because most people sort of think of that stuff as like big brand channels, and it’s not really direct response. It’s all that sort of thing. So just explain it just in general terms and then obviously how you guys utilize it.
00:20:05:04 – 00:20:31:14
Vibor
The first thing I would just say is in terms of the definition, at the simplest level, connected TV, the definition is a TV that’s connected to the internet, right? There is a broader category called oddity, which is over the top. And the idea there is you have an internet connected device that streaming content. It could be on your iPad, it could be on your tablet, could be on your desktop or mobile, but it could also be on TV.
00:20:31:16 – 00:20:54:02
Vibor
What we are really talking about here is the growth and explosion and the opportunity we see with connected TV, which is TV devices that are connected to internet and are streaming content. Why is this interesting? I think it’s interesting because of certainly the growth and the shift that we are seeing in audience behavior. Let me ask you a quick question.
00:20:54:04 – 00:21:06:12
Vibor
How much time do you think is spent on streaming TV in an average US household? Upwards? 2 to 3 hours, less than 2 hours or 5 hours.
00:21:06:12 – 00:21:09:08
Ralph
On a TV itself, or any device.
00:21:09:08 – 00:21:12:09
Vibor
On TV. It’s below less than to.
00:21:12:11 – 00:21:16:01
Ralph
I would say a couple hours. I would say 2 to 3 hours.
00:21:16:03 – 00:21:20:00
Lauren
I would say I would say 2.7 to 3.2 hours.
00:21:20:02 – 00:21:21:05
Vibor
Oh my God, it.
00:21:21:06 – 00:21:28:16
Ralph
Is a lot of times it’s on in the background because I’ve been to so many houses. It’s like if the TV is on like all day long and they’re not even watching.
00:21:28:16 – 00:21:29:12
Lauren
Oh shoot.
00:21:29:17 – 00:21:58:23
Vibor
Yeah, yeah. So interesting data points. If we look at some of this research, 2.37 hours, two hours and 37 minutes, you were pretty damn close, both of you. So thank you for giving that response. And the interesting thing is, if you compare that to the time that’s spent on the phone and use divided by the time spent on phone for productivity versus entertainment, you’ll see that the time spent on streaming TV now is very much getting to be at par.
00:21:58:23 – 00:22:13:18
Vibor
We, in fact, had a watershed moment earlier this year, but the amount of streaming TV content and the time spent there exceeded linear TV, which is some of the traditional TV right now. What’s the other interesting thing.
00:22:13:18 – 00:22:19:17
Ralph
Like cable you’re talking about? Like when you say traditional that’s buy it through Comcast okay. Got it. Yep, yep.
00:22:19:18 – 00:22:23:16
Lauren
What is cable. Who has cable.
00:22:23:18 – 00:22:25:06
Ralph
It’s where you get your internet.
00:22:25:08 – 00:22:40:04
Vibor
Yes. We still have a lot of households I think it’s 30% of the US households still have cable. I think. Really. Yeah I think I was looking at big data earlier, but it’s it’s not like we’re not in single digits by any means.
00:22:40:06 – 00:22:40:23
Ralph
My mom.
00:22:41:01 – 00:22:48:07
Lauren
I feel like only bars. I thought like bars and restaurants subscribe to cable. Like what?
00:22:48:09 – 00:22:51:19
Vibor
Yeah. That is, that is certainly the stats there.
00:22:51:19 – 00:22:52:21
Ralph
And old people.
00:22:52:23 – 00:23:31:02
Vibor
I think audience behavior is shifting. Right? You whenever you look at something that’s interesting or emerging, you look at secular trends. So audiences are spending more time there. We just talked about that. The second thing that’s really interesting for me is the attention span. And there was research done on this which said that when you, look at an impression on display, you look at an impression on social and you look at an impression on connected TV, you see much greater attention on connected TV versus social and display in fact, I was looking at some of this research.
00:23:31:02 – 00:23:59:22
Vibor
I don’t remember who has this. I had this in one of my presentations earlier in the year on the Future of Media forum. Eight times better attention span than social and 16 times better attention span than display. So you get better attention. You have growing time spent there. And then finally there’s content explosion, right? You see so many streaming TV services now.
00:24:00:00 – 00:24:25:02
Vibor
Now what’s happening is everybody has a $20 bill with one streaming service which is the non ad service. Right. And we all know what happens when we get there. We’re saying like oh I’m going to take an ad supported service. And there are now just ad free services. Yeah. So so the economics the time span, the attention. It’s all screaming that there’s more time over there.
00:24:25:02 – 00:24:49:08
Vibor
And I always feel that audience drives activation. Activation drives action. And I think somewhere squashed in between that is is advertising. So, I think that’s that makes this a really interesting challenge. Now, with that overview, I think Ralph, the other question you’re asked me was, isn’t this just for big brands, right. It actually is not. That was the world we live in.
00:24:49:08 – 00:25:18:05
Vibor
We thought that, hey, this is really for the Super Bowl commercial. This is for the big brands that the household names for every product that we use, but not quite now because you have more content, which means there is greater supply and demand. And the typical measure of incomes of TV was always reach. You can’t reach. The other thing that we haven’t talked about is that CTV is the reach of TV.
00:25:18:07 – 00:25:35:00
Vibor
With the level of personalization that you can get on web, display. Right. That’s the best of all worlds. And I’m seeing this CPMs continue to come down, which is one of the primary measures that’s used for at least, measuring reach.
00:25:35:05 – 00:25:43:21
Lauren
Oh, let’s talk about CPM. Wait, what are those CPM coming down? I was like, give me some numbers because I know my CPMs across different things. And I’m like, optimism.
00:25:43:23 – 00:25:52:15
Vibor
Especially now like most things in life. It depends. But let me let me answer that more directly to the classic marketer.
00:25:52:15 – 00:25:55:08
Ralph
He’s a marketer, too. He’s going to say it depends.
00:25:55:10 – 00:25:57:01
Lauren
We knew it. We knew it.
00:25:57:01 – 00:26:19:09
Vibor
Oh no, I can I can look at the data and say that there was a point in time where more CPMs for CTV were upwards of 40, $50. But now what I’m seeing is if you just went and looked at the mean, the CPMs are in, I would say, and this is not just our data, but just general data.
00:26:19:11 – 00:26:27:12
Vibor
It is in the high teens, and it really depends because it’s about the campaign objective, which you boards really understand. Right?
00:26:27:12 – 00:26:28:05
Lauren
Of course.
00:26:28:07 – 00:26:48:13
Vibor
If you’re going to try and go really broad, yes. Your CPMs way better. But if you’re going to say, I just want to target all BMW X5 owners that have an automobile for the last three plus years in this zip code, with this kind of, demographic profile, suddenly your teams are going to be higher.
00:26:48:13 – 00:27:18:16
Lauren
So I’m getting Facebook 2016 vibes in this type of targeting and this type of accessibility, and then the ability to have the funnel tracking like the ROI aspect of Facebook today, unless you’re in a sense in that category, combined with the ability to track to the designer brand, to the behaviors and the demographic elements of before, it’s like, well, I don’t want to say out loud.
00:27:18:19 – 00:27:36:09
Lauren
And anyone that’s a policy listener like, close your ears. But like so much has happened where restrictions on advertising has come to those big channels. So like what I’m hearing is that is CPMs that are competitive to a lot of social media platforms. You have the ROI component. That is why we tend to lean in the the big three.
00:27:36:14 – 00:27:55:13
Lauren
But you’re saying that like performance in ROI of CTE are familiar and comparative to the meta, the Google and the TikToks of the world, while having additional layers of personalized targeting that you’re not available to access in some of those bigger networks anymore.
00:27:55:15 – 00:28:23:13
Vibor
Absolutely. And we’ve done, we did a lot of work with audience data partners. And we often, we offer as an example, audience segments that can that are a few thousand audience segments that you can use if you want to drive a campaign. And I think the other the other myths, so to say that I would bust it’s not just a brand awareness flick.
00:28:23:15 – 00:28:50:23
Vibor
We think that you need to think about connected TV as a full funnel channel. When you use it with sequential targeting and retargeting, it is actually driving mode a both upper funnel and mid follow. And I think that’s the other sort of myth that exists out there that only think about it for brand awareness. You actually should think about it as a performance channel as well.
00:28:50:23 – 00:29:23:00
Vibor
And we offer this capability where, as I said, going back to the fundamentals, multi-channel marketing and advertising. And when you think about the channels in concert and you deliver a consistent message and you reinforce that message across multiple channels, think about CTV ad and you are able to retarget so on with display, because when as what Ralph was saying, when TV’s playing in the background, often the research also shows you’re holding another device in your hand.
00:29:23:02 – 00:29:59:01
Vibor
We are all on multiple devices, right? So the engagement with CTV retargeting or web retargeting back on CTV is also where you start to think about this, not just as a channel for broadening reach, but actually driving mid funnel engagement. So that’s the other myth I would just throw back to all the questions you were asking. But Lauren, I think that’s the process, the promise, which is get the level of targeting and personalization, but be able to do it in a medium like this, which has the greater attention.
00:29:59:02 – 00:30:29:08
Lauren
I just want to know and understand when Meta’s and Googles and TikToks of the world are doing such broad targeting and you’re getting such large volume to your website, you’re saying, essentially we can take that massive, broad audience filter down to who is a qualified audience based off of targeting, of targeting assumptions, whether that be the type of car they’re driving, the level of income, all those pieces that we used to be able to do, you’re able to now say like, yeah, get cheap traffic elsewhere.
00:30:29:10 – 00:30:41:04
Lauren
Then we’re going to retarget and filter your retargeting. So you’re not retargeting everyone. You’re strategically retargeting and bringing that experience from web to CTV, where they are 16 times more attention.
00:30:41:05 – 00:31:05:00
Vibor
You are essentially right. And as and I’ll, explain what’s the product work that needs to get done for this to be true. I which has been done like we have done that right. You typically in a streaming TV scenario, you have an household identifier is the identifier that’s associated with the streaming TV device, which is behind your TV.
00:31:05:06 – 00:31:40:00
Vibor
Think about like Apple TV as an example, and then you have a household which has everyone that has an identifier on the web. Right? It may be because I’m using Google Chrome, and I have cookies turned on, or I may have someone that’s my son. That’s using a Safari browser. Now, the work that we have done to make CTV a performers show is to build an identity graph, which teaches your identities between household and your web identifiers.
00:31:40:00 – 00:32:26:10
Vibor
When you’re able to do that fundamental work, you’re able to do retargeting. And that at the most fundamental level, is the work that we have invested in and finished earlier in the year that you can think about CTV as a performance channel, you should, in fact, not just scan, that gives you so much power, that gives you the ability for you to be able to attribute traffic off in terms of your site visits, when, impressions that you have on TV, you can attribute purchases, you can understand, oh, which creator worked, which didn’t work, which geography did did work in, which time of the day, which publisher and publisher and advertising inventory
00:32:26:10 – 00:32:53:20
Vibor
would be is CNN, MLB, or, I don’t know, Hulu. And which day of the week? Right. These are traditional measures of linear TV that now you are able to associate and attribute back. And there are some leaders in the industry that really focus on independent. Third party measurement. And innovate is one that we have partnered with.
00:32:53:22 – 00:33:23:00
Vibor
We don’t want to be grading our own homework. We want someone else to be grading on homework, which is basically what’s the performance we are delivering because we are an advertising company, right? What we do is we understand your campaign parameters and we help go find audiences in a publisher network. That’s the work we have done. So we have innovated, which can help you do all this measurement, and see how CCTV’s driving the actions that you want to die.
00:33:23:00 – 00:33:45:01
Ralph
So I would love to hear any sort of case study or results that you guys have had. We can leave the company name out of it if we need to for confidentiality. But I mean, this all sounds good, but I mean, at the end of the day, it’s about results, especially people who listen to this show. A lot of them are performance marketers.
00:33:45:01 – 00:34:10:23
Ralph
And like, all right, this guy sounds like he knows what he’s saying, but where’s the proof? So can we talk about that specifically and how it actually works? Not in necessarily just, you know, ad role specifically or next role as a company specifically because you have more than one product just aside from Adderall. The point is, is like, how does it work alongside, because most of the listeners of the show are already advertising on Google, TikTok, meta.
00:34:11:01 – 00:34:13:23
Ralph
So yep, let’s talk about that.
00:34:14:01 – 00:34:43:10
Vibor
Yeah. Happy to talk about I probably take this to the use cases that I’ve seen, which are really interesting and will leave some thoughts for the audience. So the first, I would say earlier in the year, we had a customer in Australia that’s a clean tech company. They sell solar panels and they ran a campaign where you could win, a free automobile, a lot, a lot of name names.
00:34:43:10 – 00:35:21:07
Vibor
I’m trying to sound. I’m going to sound a little abstract. And they ran a campaign where the whole idea was that they wanted to engage audience in a certain geography in Australasia. They had a few successful campaigns, through the course of that year. Second, I can think of, community college, which is in the East Coast, that is run a few campaigns with us because they believe that their programing is very relevant for students of a certain geography against, of a certain demographic.
00:35:21:09 – 00:35:44:11
Vibor
And they really wanted to reach out to those students, in a certain borrow in New York. So we worked with them, in terms of running campaigns, whenever it’s the right time of the year where students are applying to community college, that’s one we have seen. We’ve only talked about these as direct to consumer use cases.
00:35:44:11 – 00:36:14:18
Vibor
Right. I’m trying to participate in a lucky draw to win a certain automobile and perhaps win, solar panel, service, solar panel capability in my household. But we haven’t talked about B2B use cases. We are seeing multiple technology companies here in the Valley where they are thinking about CTV and their running campaigns actively to drive audience to their conference.
00:36:14:20 – 00:36:36:15
Vibor
We know that conferences are back in a big way. I know a lot of you are at one right now. And certainly understanding your audience demographic in a B2B. So let’s say it is CMO or VP of marketing that are in a certain geography, and you want to drive their attention. We have seen that as a use case.
00:36:36:17 – 00:37:08:21
Vibor
Another use case we have seen is, digital, an experience company that has experiences either around Kentucky Derby or F1 or a certain PGA tournament that understands that certain audience really care about that experience. And going after those audience in terms of running CTV campaigns in concert with their rap campaigns. So I’ve got all of these examples, and I think the favorite quote I have in terms of performance.
00:37:08:21 – 00:37:46:12
Vibor
And, Ralph, you said, performance specifically, right? Is this tech company in the Valley that told us that after they ran their CTV campaign, their performance was 2 to 3 X better than what they saw with another channel. I would like to name that challenge. So, so I think just hearing about two, three times better Roas relative to the other channels they’re using for video, given the precision of targeting, was music to my ears.
00:37:46:14 – 00:37:51:17
Vibor
And I think we have an opportunity to do that on a repeated basis with many other clients and agencies.
00:37:51:19 – 00:38:09:00
Ralph
We will be leaving links in the show notes for these, because we do have a number of case studies on your side. If you’ve got additional ones that you want our listeners to, review, we will leave that over at perpetual traffic.com. I know Lauren is itching to ask perhaps the final question as we conclude here. Well, I’m.
00:38:09:00 – 00:38:35:04
Lauren
Just like, it seems like we’ve talked about so much of like, what’s coming and what’s being developed and on like this area of advertising that most don’t. So I agree with everything that you’re seeing. And, what’s working now? Where where do you see this going? Where do you see, CTV specifically. And brands or businesses, our listeners that want to use CTV, what should they know now for the rest of 2025 and into 2026 and beyond to stay competitive?
00:38:35:05 – 00:38:48:05
Lauren
Because I don’t know if other people are listening to this being like, shit, there’s so much more precision targeting inside CTV than any of us thought. Like, what should people start thinking about and be aware of as a lot of people are going to start planning their 2026 budget?
00:38:48:06 – 00:39:09:17
Vibor
Yeah, I’ll give it two. And one is more of a hesitation that often customers have. And they could be brands or agencies. One is, oh, do I have the creative. Do I have the creative for me to be on CTV? That’s the question that’s lurking at the back of their head, for sure. I would say you do.
00:39:09:21 – 00:39:42:21
Vibor
If you have social content right, you can easily use that as source content to create CTV ads. We already have that as a service that we offer. You got A67, you’ve got a six second, eight second clip. We can easily package that into a CTV ad along with a QR code. We got that. And we all know what generative AI is doing in terms of lowering the barriers, right?
00:39:42:23 – 00:40:07:05
Vibor
So I think creative is no longer a barrier to adoption. If that’s something that you’re wondering, and you can go to our site or you can, look at our links or hit me on LinkedIn and, we’ll be happy to answer questions on that. The second thing I’ll say, what I’m excited about, futuristic, is the interactivity that’s going to come in CTV.
00:40:07:05 – 00:40:32:13
Vibor
We believe that there is going to be a greater degree of interaction. It can come in terms of having an ability to be able to stop an ad, to have a carousel, to be able to move around, to be able to flip colors in your car ad that you’re looking at, to be able to pick a QR code and add something to your shopping cart.
00:40:32:13 – 00:40:45:02
Vibor
So I think interactivity, is the next frontier that I’m excited about. In addition to don’t worry about the creative, I think creative is about you can easily cross.
00:40:45:02 – 00:41:07:01
Ralph
So we have a newer customer. We’re not doing their connected TV as of yet. And as soon as we started doing the research and then they became a client of ours, as soon as we started doing the research, I started seeing their connected TV ads on my little Roku TV. As I watched ESPN in the morning, and it was one of their meta ads.
00:41:07:06 – 00:41:24:17
Ralph
It was just it was it was basically it was the same thing. It was really good, by the way. So we’re like, great. So we’re running the same ads. I mean, they were they hired us to do a lot of their new creative. But the point is, is that I remember that was like the thing that all of a sudden in my mind, I was like, this is not something that you need to hire.
00:41:24:19 – 00:41:46:16
Ralph
You know, some 150,000 quarter of $1 million photo shoots, Super Bowl type of that type of thing. You can repurpose what you’re already using. It’s got to be the right type of thing. Obviously, you need a strategy that goes along with it. You need messaging all these other sorts of things. But it’s not. It’s not as and I was shocked by how good it was and it was direct response.
00:41:46:16 – 00:42:01:08
Ralph
And it was really simple. And it was like, I know they were it was used by them. It was filmed with an iPhone. So it’s not beyond the reach right now by any stretch. And I think that is a barrier that a lot of people think about when they talk about connected TV.
00:42:01:10 – 00:42:12:04
Vibor
Yep, certainly CPM no longer barrier creative, no longer a barrier personalization and reach best of both worlds. So add that to your mix with simple message.
00:42:12:06 – 00:42:13:08
Ralph
There you go. Well, you.
00:42:13:08 – 00:42:29:18
Lauren
Just said interactivity is good. Like sorry Ralph, I sorry. I was like you saying interactivity. Where we have multi-channel, no one is like what the multi device people. You said that they’re on TV and they’re on their phone at the same time. So someone can take action because they’re, they’re distracted and both devices with the attention on you.
00:42:29:18 – 00:42:44:18
Lauren
So I’m like you have that component of interactivity. Like you’re talking about experiential learning. Like even on the you’re using the same meta creative, you’re buying into CCTV, but you’re adding an extra layer of a QR code. They’re watching TV with their phones out.
00:42:44:20 – 00:42:45:21
Ralph
Yeah.
00:42:45:23 – 00:42:54:00
Lauren
So then you get to have that experiential connection, like nothing gets that multi-device consumption as fast as this is done.
00:42:54:01 – 00:42:57:11
Vibor
Yep. Absolutely great. Great add ons there lol.
00:42:57:12 – 00:43:08:15
Ralph
Yeah yeah. That’s everything all together. Well where can people connect with you and that role specifically? You did mention your LinkedIn profile. Is that the best place for people to connect with you?
00:43:08:18 – 00:43:33:22
Vibor
Yeah, absolutely happy to do that. I’m happy to leave my link there. Before Kapoor hit me up on LinkedIn. I’m very active there as well as yeah, I drool.com. Agile is our primary brand across both B2C and B2B, while Nextdoor is certainly the holding company. And, thank you for having hosted me. It was exciting to have the conversation.
00:43:33:22 – 00:43:35:16
Vibor
And I love the interactivity.
00:43:35:18 – 00:43:54:00
Ralph
Yeah, no, I think it’s a lot of fun. Really great to have you guys on. And for anyone who wants to connect, obviously connect with, before or over on LinkedIn, we’ll leave links in the show notes there for y’all, as well as all the resources that we mentioned here. There’s quite a few of them over at Perpetual Traffics.
00:43:54:01 – 00:44:17:11
Ralph
And of course, if you want to leave us a rating and review wherever you listen to podcast, we’d be happy to take those as well. Helps us get out to a wider audience to teach people how to do the right, the right things with these types of messages here. And CTV isn’t something that we’ve really covered a whole lot about, but, metrics that matter and growth at scale, that’s what this is what this podcast is all about.
00:44:17:13 – 00:44:20:14
Ralph
The thank you so much for coming on to Perpetual Traffic.
00:44:20:14 – 00:44:24:19
Vibor
Thank you. Appreciate it. And I’m certainly leaving a review tonight as well.
00:44:24:21 – 00:44:48:06
Ralph
You know, listen, that show that guy from AD roll. Yeah. That’s that’s what you’re gonna say is amazing. So on behalf of my amazing co-host Lauren Petrillo. So till next show, see you.
