Ralph and John Moran get into the complexities of multi-channel attribution, with a strong focus on YouTube’s challenges and potential for growth. He and John break down how businesses can better understand YouTube’s role in driving conversions, even when the platform’s metrics might make it seem like the weak link. They talk about real-world testing strategies, including post-purchase surveys and ad copy tweaks, to capture a clear picture of what works. By taking a holistic approach, Ralph explains how YouTube, Facebook, and Google Performance Max can work together to reveal surprising insights, making this episode essential listening for marketers looking to scale smartly.

Chapters

• 00:00:00 – Kickoff: Setting the Stage for Success
• 00:00:39 – Cracking the Code: YouTube Attribution Challenges
• 00:01:53 – Solutions in Focus: Navigating Multi-Channel Attribution
• 00:06:09 – Beyond Basics: Why Post-Purchase Surveys Matter
• 00:11:40 – Real Results: The Pet Hair Rake Case Study
• 00:20:46 – Ad Testing for YouTube Optimization
• 00:36:08 – YouTube vs. PDP: Game-Changing Landing Page Tactics
• 00:37:13 – Facebook vs. YouTube Showdown: Which Ad Wins?
• 00:44:00 – Agency Success Blueprint: Building from the Ground Up
• 00:46:51 – Mastering Metrics: Advanced Attribution Tactics
• 00:53:01 – Rapid-Fire Wisdom: Marketing Takeaways You Need
• 00:58:28 – Wrapping Up: Lasting Insights and Takeaways

LINKS AND RESOURCES:

• Get Your Marketing Performance Indicators™ Checklist Now!
• KnoCommerce
• Shopper Approved
• Tier 11 Jobs
• Tier 11 on YouTube
• Perpetual Traffic on YouTube
• Tiereleven.com
• Mongoose Media
• Perpetual Traffic Survey
• Perpetual Traffic Website
• Follow Perpetual Traffic on Twitter
• Connect with Lauren on Instagram and Connect with Ralph on LinkedIn

Thanks so much for joining us this week. Want to subscribe to Perpetual Traffic? Have some feedback you’d like to share? Connect with us on iTunes and leave us a review!

---

Read the Transcript Below:

YouTube vs. TV: Which Is Better?

Ralph: Hey folks, Ralph here with something that could seriously upgrade your top of funnel ad game. if you’ve been a PT listener for any period of time, you know that we talk about top of funnel all the time and how challenging it is for you to get quality top of funnel clients or leads or customers and then convert them typically at bottom of funnel.

Ralph: Well, TV advertising is one of those areas that we haven’t discussed here on PT all that much,

Ralph: but our friends over at ad critter have figured this stuff out. They do TV ads. So you can be everywhere without spending millions on super bowl ads, but they pair it with display retargeting. So you’re hitting the audiences with a complete approach. You reach them. Then you remind them and then you collect the revenue.

Ralph: It’s a strategy designed to deliver and let me tell you, it really works. We’re testing this at tier 11 and so far the results have been very impressive. Now with AdCritter, creating custom audiences are so easy. You don’t need to reformat files. You don’t need to mess around with complex spreadsheets.

Ralph: You just upload any file in any format and you’re ready to go. And the match rate is awesome. They make it easy to connect with the right people, the actual people that have interacted with your ads in the past, and then allow them to naturally flow through your funnel so you can convert them at bottom of funnel.

Ralph: Now, the folks at ad critter,

Ralph: we twisted their arm to get us a great deal for you, the PT listener. They are offering a special deal for y’all. And that is you can get a 500 campaign credit, meaning 500 in free money to test out the platform.

Ralph: Or dollar for dollar matching on any TV campaign up to five grand. Imagine the impact of that match spend five grand. They’ll add another five grand in display. That’s a huge opportunity here. Now it’s only offered to you, the PT listener head over to add critter. com forward slash PT and check it out.

Ralph & John

John:

Ralph: Hello and welcome to the perpetual traffic podcast. This is your host, Ralph Burns and the founder and CEO of chair 11 and today’s show in line with our month. Today is one of the ones that I think you’re going to find particularly interesting because this is a problem that perplexes. I just want to use the word perplex in a podcast.

Ralph: A lot of business owners, a lot of people, even like billion dollar businesses. And we refer to this in today’s show a bit, uh, And this is taken from our tier 11 lives that we do every single Friday with myself, John Moran. We also have other special guests that are on there, uh, as well, but this one is all about YouTube.

Ralph: Really, and how you use YouTube, because it is a blind, in many cases, no click, it is a blind channel. When you’re looking at all of your channels together, this is one of the ones that usually looks the worst. So how do you scale? How do you leverage YouTube, especially versus TV? Like, how do you measure the attribution of a Super Bowl commercial, which John talks about here?

Ralph: How do you measure the attribution of YouTube videos that you might be doing at top of funnel where there’s no click? In this particular case study, we actually do have a click because they’re really, really good ads. The point is,

Ralph: there is a lot that you can do here, but it is a multi step approach. And today’s episode is super tactical. So I’m going to, I can warn you right now, if you are out walking the dog or you’re at the gym, this might be a little challenging for you to follow along with. There’s so much happening here. Like how to use YouTube is not an easy thing.

Ralph: And fortunately, John has been studying this and testing this for years now, and we’ve finally figured out the way to crack the code on YouTube, especially how to measure it using multi channel attribution using third party softwares. Obviously, our preferred choice is wicked reports, especially for, you know, small, mid sized businesses in this one in this client, but.

Ralph: We use Northbeam, so Northbeam is also a really good software, really good attribution, especially at a much higher level, much, uh, it’s sort of an enterprise level. It’s a little bit more expensive either way. Like these guys, even though they do model some of their data, it’s not the actual click in many cases, it’s a solid software.

Ralph: So the same principles apply here as to how we figure out which channel is pulling where. And we’ve talked many, many times about marketing performance indicators. We’ve talked about wicked reports, how we now use that. And we also use that with our data warehouse and our blot out, which we call our tier 11 data suite, which has an integration between all three.

Ralph: So it really does eliminate a lot of the unknowns, 90 percent plus of the unknowns and the unattributed, but it does not track. No click. So oftentimes when you’re running YouTube ads, like I said, they’re going to look like the worst performing channel, especially if you have a channel breakdown and you’re using one of these softwares in this case, like I said, we’re using North beam.

Ralph: They have a very good interface that shows exactly what channel is doing what. You know, wicked Reports in my opinion, a better option for a lot of the businesses that listen to this show here. The point is, is that if you’re measuring all those different channels, you need to know like which one is pulling for you.

Ralph: And YouTube is really challenging to figure out. So I would highly encourage you to go over to our YouTube channel. Listen to this. If you’re trying to crack the code on YouTube, this is one of the best episodes I think we’ve ever done on this. So, uh, head over to professional traffic.com/youtube. You can also.

Ralph: Check these out on our Friday, tier 11 lives. They’re two 30 PM Eastern time every Friday. Sometimes we do need to change them based on our travel schedules and family lives and all that sort of stuff. So, uh, that is a great resource for you, but check this out on perpetualtraffic. com forward slash YouTube.

Ralph: If you do not. Subscribe to our channel, make sure that you’ve subscribed to it. It’s growing like a weed right now, which is great because these types of things are really challenging to state in an audio format. And I try to do my best to do that. But remember when we were doing this live, it was really more of a screen share.

Ralph: So, uh, use the two of them. And like I said, if you’re struggling with YouTube, this is the episode for you. So one of the things that John does talk about here is How to actually test for videos, like which ones actually work. And in this case, this client actually has a very good creative department. So they’re providing those videos for us.

Ralph: We also provide a solution in case you don’t have those, which is one of the things that he talks about. It’s like, Hey, you know, I’m in surgery and my scalpel isn’t even made yet. And I can’t even start surgery. You don’t have the video assets to be able to leverage YouTube. There are some resources, which we mentioned here, obviously tier 11 has those resources as well.

Ralph: One of the big things that we also saw with this is that Meta and Google were really, not even YouTube, but Google itself, the last click we were getting on this client is. Primarily a different demographic than what we were seeing on meta. So looking at your data, analyzing your data, like who is actually buying your demographic data will then allow you to dial in your targeting, but also dial in your avatar, dial in your messaging, your ideal customer profile, the types of people that are actually buying.

Ralph: The stuff from you. So super important there. There’s a lot of learnings. and in so doing, you might need to change your messaging and , your demographic a hundred percent. and John explains exactly how you use that data and graphically. How to figure out how to do that. Now, one of the big things here is using post purchase surveys.

Ralph: So we’ve had a number of, folks that have come on this show talking about the importance of post purchase surveys. The one that we like the most sort of the Cadillac of all post purchase surveys is shopper approved. We’ve had DJ and his team on here, so definitely check them out. But, no commerce with a K.

Ralph: Kno commerce is also a very good source and there’s a lot of them that you can get, especially for Shopify, you can get plugins and so forth, but shopper approved is the one that we really like. They also do reputation management, but the decision on which post purchase survey to use is totally up to you.

Ralph: So I think that is another component to this that led John to figure out what to look for. So you’re combining post purchase surveys. If you don’t know what they are, we’ll leave links in the show notes for that. Obviously, as well as reading the data, reading the tea leaves inside the attribution software.

Ralph: So, , he also does A strategy here called the one day spike. So this is a great way to test YouTube. So he talks super fast. So this is why I am reiterating a lot of these points here for you to sort of hone in on the one day spike testing methodology, which you do the one day spike for YouTube, and you figure out what comes out on the other end.

Ralph: And it’s an easier way for you to sort of figure out what creative and if the channel is actually pulling for you, because typically what you’ll see in a lot of your in channel metrics is that performance max, which basically scoops up all the bottom of funnel, the easiest conversions gets all the credit and YouTube gets screwed.

Ralph: And that’s not the way to look at things. You have to look at. This as a holistic, all channels working together, you know, in true media mix modeling fashion in order to derive the end results. So

Ralph: without further ado, let’s get into today’s episode once again. You’re going to want to watch this over at perpetual traffic. com forward slash YouTube. Uh, today’s show is a long one, and then there’s a lot of Q and a at the end too, which I think for all you Google and meta people, and even agency folks definitely stay tuned to the very end of today’s show.

Ralph: So, take it away, John and Ralph.

John: Today, we’re going to be counter acting a bit of the narrative through some testing, but, I wanted to explain the importance of a YouTube strategy and , we, we talk about YouTube, we, we have, we, we discuss all things, Google meta, but YouTube inside of funnel development as to how it pertains to the sales of an overall product and the efficacy of how good that YouTube campaign is, can really increase The entire funnel all the way down to, of your, is your product selling on Amazon?

John: Andhow is it doing there? So I have a client that we actually just kind of go through, waiting for the third party attribution software that, will not name by name on this call because it’s not wicked, to be shared. it’s waiting for it to wait for it to load. Wait, there we go.

John: Now it’s pulling up.

Ralph: think this is as you’re waiting, this is a question. We like a lot of businesses get I still you’re on sales calls. Now I’m on sales calls. I’m usually on like the discovery call. And then we’re like, yeah, let’s bring in John kind of thing. But. Nobody really knows how to integrate YouTube into their overall marketing mix.

John: Mm hmm.

Ralph: And one of my best friends,online and actually in person, we met online, but now we’re actual real friends, is, runs a YouTube agency only. That’s all they ever do. And he’s now finding that big advertisers, like one of the ones that we’re talking to this week, huge TV advertisers, aren’t even touching YouTube.

Ralph: You can think of the one, the billion dollar one that we’re talking to this week, or actually sending a proposal to this week. The point is, it’s like, they have a TV strategy. They don’t have a YouTube strategy at all. So what he’s,

John: It’s

Ralph: he’s finding is that his target audience. TV advertisers getting them to YouTube because they have no clue how to do it. So there’s,

John: What do you mean? Getting the TV advertisers to, Oh, like opening up new channels.

Ralph: like our main channel for demand gen or our main channel for awareness of our product is TV advertising. And But we don’t know how to transition that to YouTube. So he’s finding that those people who really aren’t online marketers, they’re kind of more traditional, older school, not necessarily old school.

Ralph: Cause that necessarily isn’t the case in all cases. We know of one case where they got tremendous amount of TV. They obviously do digital marketing as well, but. People don’t really know how to use YouTube within the context of their overall strategy. So I think today’s conversation is

John: Not to blame them.

Ralph: It’s hard.

John: Yeah. Well, it’s also people. I think also, goes back to measurement. YouTube is something that doesn’t, it works like meta in terms of creative, but it’s much different in terms of how you measure it and what you look at when it goes good versus when it goes bad. yeah.

John: Yeah. Yeah. One of the things that we’ve I’ll go through just kind of a use case for this for this client here, and I like using examples. So this is a company that sells a product you probably all have seen, and it’s a pet hair rake. Now, this is something that you’ve probably seen the videos where it’s like people that are scraping the carpet and all the hair comes up and that kind of stuff.

John: It’s, you get, your carpet looks fine and then you use this little miniature microscopic rake and all of a sudden all the hair comes out of your carpet and it’s Oh my God, I didn’t realize that I had a whole nother dog stuck in my carpet basically. Like it’s really amazing, cool product.

John: But then there’s another product that is a, a new product that’s a kit. And this kit is essentially, nothing more than a vacuum cleaner with clippers stuck to it. It’s amazing, it’s lightweight, super powerful. All the good stuff, like easy to clean. Pick your unique selling proposition. Insert here, like it’s a awesome, awesome, awesome product. what we didn’t truly understand. Was when we didn’t do a target demographic or an avatar development, we stumbled upon it and we exacerbated it very, very well on accident. And I’m truly mean like on accident because we’re, we’re trying to back into, okay, what sort of identifications can we use a set of YouTube to say, aha, this is what is working, that is, this is what is not working.

John: And one of the funniest accidental things that we did, and you probably can’t tell here, but you can maybe see it. This is an elderly woman’s hand and elderly women. Apparently, our perfect demographic, women of the ages of 55 and over, if you have to groom your dog, you don’t want to go out there with scissors or clippers and try to hold a big dog.

John: This thing in the video shows how this thing sucks up the dog hair as it clips it and it’s mess free and all the other stuff. So we started to say, okay, well, I don’t know why these rounds of ads are working so well. And this is a couple of weeks ago. We’re like looking at things are just starting to really hum in YouTube.

John: Like it’s, it’s starting to work well. We’ve tried, 20 different videos. We found out the ones that are kind of working that, that are still on right now. And it’s, these three videos are working well and we’ll go through optimizations, but I want to kind of get to the big aha, a few ahas that is standard operating procedure now instead of, instead of, instead of YouTube, but when you look at the audiences inside of YouTube and you see what’s, what’s clicking and what’s converting, you can kind of see the trend here.

John: This is the exact opposite of meta exact opposite. Meta shows 25 to 34 is our top line and 65 plus is very, very little. When you look at the clicks and conversion rates between 55 and 64, where you have those clicks and those conversions, those clicks, those conversions. More interest in 65 plus the amount of conversions, better conversion rate on 55 plus, and then it falls off a cliff heading the opposite direction.

John: So we started to accidentally identify the more of the older female demographic and then use that person in the ad where it’s now you have the older hand that’s a little bit more. or not as, as, as strong to pick up a hundred pound dog and put them in a bed of a truck and go take them to the groomers or something that is easy and can be done from home.

John: So our ad copy changing from a younger tech talk style to an older ease of use. Massively change this thing to a point where we even said, okay, this is working. Let’s bump this on the 25th. let’s go and take our costs on these people and go from 50 up to 350. Let’s scale the impressions from 3000 up to 23, 000.

John: Let’s do a bump. And on the 25th, on that day, We saw a couple of things that were interesting. And this is where people fail. This was one of our best days. We ever had kept the same mer 28 percent increase in spend 32 percent increase in revenue. So our, our cac and our mer stayed the same. Facebook ads did better.

John: Amazon did better YouTube. We spiked up, 300 percent look like a quote unquote failed, but then since we’re running performance max, tada, a four X there. Yeah, exactly. But then what was interesting is after that day, on the 25th, the 26th and 27th. Now, all of a sudden YouTube is like, now that’s doing 100 percent better and, and things are shifting, shifting back.

John: Our first click is looking really terrible on YouTube, but our multi touch is looking, I’m sorry. Our first click is, is, our first touch is looking good, but our multi touch is bad. So it was like self learning and then started to introduce timeline because we were looking at this on a cash basis.

John: So as soon as this blipped up here, the next few days looked amazing. guttural reaction from people that are, that from this increase in ad spend, and we tested and we went from 3000 views to 16, 000 of a really good target demographic, everything over the board, everything everywhere else was great, ramped it back down and then everything got worse. Like I mean, it was clear as day. The only thing that didn’t measure well or look like it had any sort of impact was

Ralph: was YouTube.

John: YouTube did the exact opposite.

Ralph: Yeah, exactly. Cause there’s no

John: spike up YouTube, YouTube looked worse, right? YouTube looked really terrible. And then we ramped down YouTube Oh yeah, that was me doing all that.

John: I finally can attribute it two to three days later. The biggest source of truth was that you can see how much money we’re spending here on YouTube compared to let’s say meta and 15 K. This went from a 4 percent post purchase survey.

Ralph: right? I’m looking at this

John: the one day

Ralph: Okay. By day. Gotcha.

John: is two days here. Yep. But what was interesting is on this day that we spiked it up on the 25th and we said, okay, how’d this do that?

John: That brought all of the good lift and everything was really, really good. When we spiked up the YouTube ad spend on that day. Compared to the day before, our post purchase survey said 4 percent of all of the sales of that kit came from YouTube. The 25th, 16 percent of all of the sales of that kit that day said that they found out about us through YouTube.

John: And those are the only ones that we can track that didn’t go to Amazon, which is 30 of 57, 000.

Ralph: Wow.

John: So we spiked up YouTube post purchase survey, 7 from 4 percent to 16%, even though we’re only spending about 10%. So now the post purchase survey ratios of people who are buying from us from YouTube are vastly outpacing the amount of money that we’re spending on YouTube compared to meta.

John: Post purchase survey was a really good indicator. Post purchase survey also is at random. So the, the answers are always jumbled. It’s not just YouTube. Number one, you have to make sure that YouTube is sometimes first and seventh and ninth and then sometimes gone and whatever it is. So we using good testing and post purchase survey, but that was my first indicator where it’s if I spike this up and people come in recency bias.

John: If also first click is accurate to say that I found you on YouTube and that that worked like, okay, so we found the right ad copy obviously to the right audience that when we spike it up, even though YouTube looks like it did the worst in terms of media efficiency ratio, it brought a whole bunch of new customers or new visits to the site.

John: So our ECPNB on YouTube was better than Google and better than Facebook. Subsequent days of measurements should show that, after the 25th, the 26th and 27th here,

Ralph: So you did a one day spike and then nothing after that,

John: one day spike,

Ralph: all right, just to test this in essence. Okay. Got it.

John: because we already had 4%, 5 percent of everyone saying, yeah, we found out about you on, on YouTube when we introduced YouTube, it did actually have a good top line result and then let me get to the, the correct,

Ralph: others I have to assume were Google, just like Google search.

John: No, pretty much meta Google is it’s running PMAX now. Yeah, PMAX is, that’s what’s funny is as soon as we started spiking up on YouTube, you get like PMAX all products like, yeah, I’m doing much better. And then PMAX gets I can spend 14 percent less to make 42 percent more conversion value. And I’m a hit a 500 row as I’m like, okay, cool.

John: Well, performance max is all of a sudden just going really, really good out of nowhere. I wonder why. And it’s did you know that all of these people Googling your brand are now Googling it much? Much more often in these, in these days. It’s yes, of course, because you spike up YouTube and up Brooklyn makes 2, 000, which is a 285 percent increase than the prior two days.

John: Wow. Shocker. So when you look at you spike up YouTube, the following two days, performance max is look at these five, 600 percent row as is from your brand that came out of nowhere at 285 percent increase the last two days for

Ralph: And if you were the average marketer, you’d just say, spend more money on your performance max.

John: Exactly. And ah, YouTube didn’t really work. Oh, look, we spent 138 percent more and we lost 10%.

John: All right. So I’m going to take a step back here. So you figured out one last thing, I will,

Ralph: won’t summarize

John: one last wrench

Ralph: the John 10 quite yet, but I’m ready.

John: yet. Last but not least, you look at this here and say, is this strategy working? Yes. I mean, going all the way back to March 1st, cause we launched YouTube a few weeks ago at a level like you can clearly see this one product.

John: That is the only thing we’re marketing on YouTube in performance max, just reach new levels of new heights. So that’s why people suck at YouTube is because it’s extremely difficult to measure trends. I’ll stop there

Ralph: All right. So if you were to do this with a new brand, it’s like you had some YouTube that was running for this just to begin with what

John: a different product on a 12 item, not a

Ralph: okay. So maybe just let’s deconstruct that, I guess, like, how do you determine in order to get to the level where you’re like, all right, I can do a test of this spiking up my spend on a particular platform.

Ralph: YouTube. We’re talking about here. How do you get to the point where you have a better than average or a high degree of certainty that the test is actually going to be accurate? What are the steps that you sort of take? Okay. Because everyone’s like, all right, well, I’m running some YouTube videos, I suppose, or I don’t really know what I should be running to begin with.

Ralph: Like, how do you kind of start there?

John: Let me do this. I have to refresh, which let me just rechange Google back to what I need it to look like.

Ralph: And these results are very, very, very cool. So you’re obviously, you’re going to, you’re spending more on YouTube, I have to assume as of

John: Yeah. We went from 300 up to 600. And now it’s at 1200 all in the last three weeks per day. so what we did here is we started on a journey that will tell us how lean and mean and accurate can this be. So instead of here, you’ll see the conversions of views.

John: This is just a YouTube targeting strategy. And you can see you got some conversions here, but you don’t really see You know, a lot of, of scale or anything or a lot of, a lot of spiking up. You also see no, kind of lower levels of efficiency, which is 1. 08, not bad, just not really good track row as, which is fine.

John: So as I back down all of these metrics here, this is the cost. So the cost is only about 300 a day, and you can see the cost was at 300 a day basically since June 4th all the way out to July 29th. So you’re testing this for a while. The reason why we’re testing this here is we’re trying to identify what other sources of truth can we look at to say, aha, we think this is actually making an impact and then we start to level it up.

John: What did our post purchase survey say when we went from 200 to 300 a day, then 3 to 400 and then 4 to 600 this showed that the post purchase survey went from like non existent like 1 and 2 percent all the way up to. Like 6 percent of all the sales and I was like, okay, it’s about 6 percent of all the ads spent and our CAC was not increased. Excellent. So higher volume flat CAC and post purchase survey is kind of trending around the percentiles of our total sales. Compared to meta, for example, and Google still kind of non existent. No one really says Oh, you do get a couple of people are like, I searched for this, but because this is a unique and a product that has not really been introduced to the marketplace, there wasn’t existing search traffic for it.

John: So you have to generate a market. You have to generate demand

Ralph: awareness, top of funnel, all that.

John: Yep. So then when we started to see, and we’re just doing ad testing, so we’re doing like three to four new videos every one to two weeks. Sometimes it’s week over week. Sometimes I get a batch of eight videos. I test over two week periods.

John: So whenever they can get it to me is when I’ll start to do testing. And the first thing that we look at is the percentage served is meta or sorry, does Google like this, which means is Google serving that ad often. And you can see the percentage served, which is here. So it’s a column I use and say, in the last 14 days, if I show all the ads that were on at that time, you can see okay, this was on, but the percentage serve was three.

John: So it’s okay, Google is ignoring that video and ignoring that video. They’re not showing the majority of the video. So shut them off. It’s not going to work. We need new ad copy. So there’s now the three videos that are on. And then I say, okay, are people engaging with the ad? They’re watching it to 20 percent of them on these videos are watching Three quarters of the video, and that’s 30 to 53 seconds.

John: Good. We have good engagement, good percentage serve. Click. The rates are fantastic at 1. 95. Google optimizes of anything over 0. 55. You see, these were not 0. 55, which is what Google didn’t really care about. So you say, okay, Google and YouTube like the videos. Percentage serve is high. The click through rates are high.

John: The people are watching the videos, are, are working well. Checking ECPNB. These are actually beating new customer visits from YouTube beating meta, which is insane because who clicks on YouTube ads, practically no one, which means our CPMs are lower, which means our quality is higher. I’m gaining about the same amount of click traffic as I am from meta is attributing less, but it influences more because more people watch me to videos that don’t click, but still like the product versus people that would click on meta when they do like the product.

John: So I know that those variations are okay, but I’m looking at dollar 43 first touch versus 203 on Facebook. Excellent. Like I’m, I’m getting a whole bunch of good quality cold traffic that when I earned that click as just as or even better quality than what’s coming from meta because they’re watching YouTube videos, I’m interrupting their day just like a feed.

John: Excellent. So those are all the things we get to look at first is, is this quality

Ralph: now, on all these, right? All these ads right here, equal impression share, like equal impressions. does YouTube actually really split tests?

John: yeah, and that’s where you’ll see the percentage served. So basically it says if I have 100, 000 people, you get 41 percent 31 percent and 22%.

Ralph: Okay. But overall, you’ve got how many ads did you initially just three

John: Oh, 20.

Ralph: So when you were doing that round of like, all right, which ones are actually the ones that are going to resonate with the audience was YouTube

John: five at a time to pick the top

Ralph: Okay. Makes sense.

John: Now, here’s the thing is because the attribution, like, why would you keep a 27 and not shut off the nine? look at the 150, 100 versus 256 cost per conversion. This here, for example, when you see that you have good watch engagement. This is, pretty, pretty good in line, 19, 18, 16.

John: Okay. That’s good. This is 14, 12, 12, like they’re engaging. Are they clicking on this one and buying that’s all that this tells me here. But what if I watched that first and then click on the second, click on the third? What if I watch that first click on the second click on that third and now we’re looking at L1, L2, L3 or prospecting and then engagement and remarketing.

John: All this is, is Google is picking its own mini funnel to call them sequencing. So it picks its own sequencing and that’s what’s telling me what is in the sequence. Something that’s getting 2 percent of the percentage serve is not in the sequence. So just because the CPAs aren’t low does not mean that Google is not using that as one of the three videos to warm up and educate an audience.

John: They’re just not clicking yet. So don’t get rid of it if it’s serving,

Ralph: So I guess my question is, how did you narrow it down to these three?

John: those three, if Google likes it, I will

Ralph: Got it. Okay.

John: And what usually happens is when you upload five, you get one, sometimes two, this found three, excellent. that’s perfect. If there’s three videos being rotated in perpetuity to cold traffic, that’s a mini funnel right there,

Ralph: So it is really a split test. Like we had this conversation late last night about Facebook, how Facebook just, if you’re doing CBO, you just, it just didn’t put one ad set, like it just picks one video and that’s it. And it’s not necessarily your best one. It’s arbitrary. So this is a true split

John: one that I found so far.

Ralph: That’s one that I’ve

John: is, yeah, this is a true split test. Yeah, it really is. And that’s what people, they, they sort of work against the algorithm because they, it’s really arbitrary to say, take five videos and throw it in one ad set and cross your fingers. But that’s kind of how Google likes to work, but it will work the magic for you by saying, Hey, these people are engaging, they are clicking, they are watching.

John: And I will then say, Ralph needs to see at 132, John needs to see as three to one. Barry needs to see ads 1, 2, 3, like it will, it will adjust the sequencing that it needs. That it’s and where people most often fails, they’ll take this one and pause it. And now it’s got to try to do what it did before with only 66 percent of the ads that you left on. It’s going to, it’s going to interrupt things. So. If I say, okay, I think this is working well, let’s spike up spend. What happens post purchase survey? What else happens inside of, instead of the overall ecosystem, if YouTube is working, we should see a lift everywhere. It’s almost like an incremental test, but I like incremental tests, not by shutting off and seeing how much volume I can reduce to prove it.

John: My volume test is. Or my incremental test is scale, because if you do it, if you do an incremental test, or if you do a holdout test, all you do is lose volume to prove that marketing works. Marketing works at scale is much harder than I’d say I told you that ad was doing something. So my test is always scale.

John: If it’s working, I should push it

Ralph: Well, at a really simplistic level though, if you looked at this, if you went into this and you said, okay, well, I’m trying to find like the ad that actually works. Well, technically it’s at 11. That’s the one that’s working, but you’re saying don’t shut off your top three. Like, how do you figure out, it’s going to be your top three?

John: Is it, is there some sort of threshold that they have to have based upon watch time? That is your ultimate North Star right there. Percentage served.

John: Percentage serves. So anything below three

Ralph: 20 or so, you’re like, it’s not, it’s not resonating.

John: want them to be sort of equal to each other. If you have 10 ads and I’ll have 10%, that’s 10 great ads.

Ralph: Oh, okay. Cause they’re going from one to the other, the other, the other. I see. So it’s not necessarily,

John: ads and eight are, at 12 percent and the other two have 0. 1, they’re dead. You have to

Ralph: that’s how you decide.

John: Mm hmm. So you’ll see this percentage served. This one’s got 108 cost per conversion, but this one’s shown more so that we won’t be able to tell. Did people just have to see this one more often and they were seeing this one secondary and it converted well, then this one, Google is going to start to ignore. And now in a week from now, this may go from 22 down to zero. Great. Then these two are the only ads that are working.

Ralph: So you’d shut off ad number 13 just because of the data is telling you that. So that’s

John: Yeah. If Google isn’t pushing it, then it’s probably not working. Now here’s the other thing though, that’s extremely important is the bidding strategy will reflect what this will show. So during this whole time period that I’ve been testing this, what I’ve been doing is going from a manual CPV To, changing it over to a conversion based bidding strategy that I did maximize conversion value.

John: Then once I made it to at least a one, I stuck it on a TROAS of one and once it was at a TROAS of one or above, that’s when I was like, okay, now double the spend and it’ll spend it. So the TROAS here, if it can find users at 100 percent and can scale after you pick the right audience with the right ad copy with what Google likes that actually is resonating verified by CAC and also confirmed by post purchase survey.

John: We’re in a great position now because a one X return on YouTube pretty much clicks. Damn, like that is good. The other thing too, that, yeah, the other thing you could do is even if you, if you have a, a third party software tool, you can go and say, well, show me all the converting paths in this last 28 days that I know are from the platform of, let’s just say, YouTube ads and then say, okay, if this is actually working, I should see a lot of attributed first click conversions.

John: If it’s working because it is cold traffic, I can scale it. Post purchase surveys does, everything’s lining up so far because we did the hard work of giving it enough time, testing enough audiences, testing enough creative and testing enough demographics to then say, okay, we should actually be able to get this thing to scale.

John: And my first initial thing to look at to say, can I double this budget and can I triple the budget was did I see this and I did. Beautiful. That is a really good, nice first click. And that first click is showing too that this person has to click twice and three times and two times to come back direct five times here.

John: Okay, good. Like fine. Like I’m, I’m seeing, my singular clicks are 38, 38, 84. Perfect. Good stuff. So that’s a, when you can get a TROAS to lock in and scale, you are a home run. The problem is it takes sometimes two months of really good testing. Some of my best scales inside of YouTube are running dormant for upwards of six months.

John: Then you just crank it up because YouTube is like inbound search, only it’s harder. Which means it takes the same amount of data for YouTube to optimize as it does inbound search. It needs those off of click attributed. So you can have a large impact in your company and be really good position because of YouTube, but YouTube doesn’t know it yet.

John: Because you got a whole bunch of engaged view conversions and Google’s I still didn’t even attach a G clip to these people yet. I have no idea who they are, so still not seeing it quite yet. It has some good learning, but it’s not as good as click attributed. So it takes 20 click attributed conversions in Google search.

John: I don’t think you do that in a day. Instead of YouTube, way, 10 times, 15 times the aspen of inbound search and probably 10 times longer for the same end result, but you have to give it a lot of time. It has to percolate because as you get those clicks and attribution is learning more and more and more and more.

John: So that would say, Hey, go ahead and just triple the budget. It’s you got it, boss. It does that, but those, those thresholds are percentage served. Click. The rates are important. Watch rates out to 75%, 75 percent are important. Click attributed conversions in your audiences are important. Let that influence your, your video creative so that you’re targeting the right market, even though it’s different than meta, it doesn’t matter.

John: Google’s sometimes different audiences, YouTube’s different audiences, but I found an audience that I’m going to, I’m going to, leverage. And so those are important. And then when I scaled it up, YouTube looked the worst, but everything that stole conversions like Amazon and PMAX looked amazing and my top line held.

John: So let’s push it. And now, now this last week we doubled the budget. We’ll see what

Ralph: post purchase survey tool do you use on this one? Do you remember,

John: I don’t know. I just asked the client, I was like, Hey, what does it say this week? He’s here’s what the numbers are. I’m like, excellent. That’s tracking. I’ll have to find out what it

Ralph: doesn’t get, yeah, we should actually, cause we have a lot of friends in that industry actually, believe it or not. I’m always sort of like, which one we do actually. yeah.

John: I’ll, I have access to the apps in the backend. So let me just

Ralph: it’d be interesting to know, because I mean, you’re using that as one more metric. I mean, a lot of times, like I think, I think in previous YouTube lives that we’ve done here, we’ve talked about don’t rely on in app metrics.

Ralph: Well, in this case, you’re actually. You’re, you’re getting your cues from the in app metrics. You’re not using the in app metrics as your source of truth, but you are

John: broken clock. That trend’s right.

Ralph: You’re, you’re following the breadcrumbs and those are in app metrics, which in this case, it took 15 videos, 15 different videos, if I’m not mistaken, sort of narrow it down to three, which is, which is actually a really high percentage of success, believe it or not.

John: it really is. Especially that you can scale up to 1, 200 a day from 300 bucks. what’s funny is, the backend of the first click attribution is sort of, Shopify says the last 30 days that YouTube brought me two new customers and zero returning. That’s it. And that’s, what’s funny too, is that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s a huge thing in terms of like, when you can rely, it’s yeah, I can’t rely in app, but I also can’t rely on third party.if I say, Hey, what is the first click in the last 30 days? It’s Oh yeah. YouTube brought me up to cool.that’s two like there’s there’s YouTube is not even on here.

Ralph: It doesn’t really help. I’m just curious. Are you, I know we’ve got a lot of questions here that we got to answer, but which we’ll get to in a second. Thank you for

John: And one last thing, actually, too. I know there’s a whole bunch of things. This is the other part, too, is try testing non PDPs. Like we made a mini website for this product. So this is what was interesting. YouTube to a PDP. Cool. But if you skip the landing page, you stop the selling. So this is what’s interesting is if you take a, take a YouTube video, showcase demo, really cool, but you got a small amount of tension, you gain interest.

John: You stop the scroll, stop the skip. I should say earn the click. Yep. And then five reasons why it’s perfect solution to seasonal shedding. And so now we’re, we’re actually like selling, it’s almost like a VSL without the.this is stupid. But

Ralph: Is this your, your, is this, this is the page you’re sending that, that YouTube traffic to if they actually do click.

John: yeah, yeah, we tried the gifting angle and then the, the, the five kit seasonal. So we’re, what’s funny is if you say Oh, okay, well, I’m actually interested. Let’s buy this. actually don’t forget to click on this one. Then you go to the PDP.

Ralph: Okay.

John: So we, we, we all rows lead to the PDP. So tracking doesn’t get interrupted. We’re just putting a basic splash page in front of it. That sizzle.

Ralph: We could, we could do a whole show just on that unto itself, but that’s pretty cool. Now, like on your Facebook spend, I noticed there’s a fair amount of Facebook spend. Are you co mingling assets between the two? this obviously works to cold traffic on YouTube. Why wouldn’t it also work over on the Facebook side?

John: It’s actually working less effectively on Facebook. Facebook is dragging us down from a media efficiency ratio. Yeah.

Ralph: No kidding. Okay.

John: I don’t know why. But it’s I’m like, Hey, can I scale up YouTube? They’re like, well, not until we get meta in line. I’m not running the meta. I’m just running the YouTube,

Ralph: the same video assets? That’s my question. Cause it’s it’s.

John: Use the same video. I says, yeah, the demographics are completely different though. That’s what’s weird is like my 65 is their 18. Like it’s weird, I don’t know if it’s just I was like, man, we’re seeing much better success as 65. He’s that is, I mean, the graphs do this inside of Google versus meta and demographic.

John: So very interesting, like the, the ones that are perfectly working instead of YouTube to an old audience are not working to a young audience. Typically, those are really blended, like very

Ralph: That doesn’t seem to make

John: this is a, I know,

Ralph: you’re not running the, you’re not running the Facebook side, obviously, in this particular case or the meta side. But so you don’t really know which platform they’re actually coming from. They might be like largely skewed towards, Facebook instead of Instagram or.

Ralph: that doesn’t seem to make sense to me. if you have some sort of level of success at an awareness level on YouTube, it should translate over to the social platforms, which are discovery platforms. They’re not really looking for this stuff. You’re doing this in a pre roll. Obviously you’re getting them to not click, skip. so that’s, that’s interesting. Okay.

John: Yeah. And so that’s, what was interesting is like this same strategy executed on meta. I mean, it’s working, but it’s not, I mean, it’s giving us a 1. 1 Mer where on Google, just YouTube, By itself, everything we can track so far with unique landing page and everything is giving us about a 3. 5. So really interesting.

John: now there is a lot of warm traffic in Meta though. So I think what Meta is doing is kind of cannibalizing the growth in on itself. Like they’re, they’re really hurting for cold traffic. Like it’s hard for them to get cold traffic. And so that’s where I think like Meta. If, if Meta and YouTube were both brand new ecosystems in this new strategy, I think it’d be different, but we’re taking an old Meta account and slapping new YouTube, new YouTube for a new product.

John: So I think that Meta is just not being able to get the cold traffic like YouTube is.

Ralph: almost like they need a whole new ad account.

John: Yeah, or Meta needs to actually listen to exclusions.

Ralph: Well, they, we know they don’t, so

John: And, they’ve been spending a hundred grand a month for two years now. But the new product launch is only being really successful on YouTube. I

Ralph: I created a new meta account.

Ralph: we should get to some of these questions here. Cause we’re already 40 minutes into it.

John: Oh my God. I talk too

Ralph: No, no, no, no. This is great. We haven’t really talked about like a cult. It’s this is a, for those of you listening, this is a.

Ralph: Start to, I wouldn’t even say finish, but success start to a level of success YouTube strategy that came was basically non existent and it took, but it took you how many, how many months now? I’m going to say six months.

John: three months,

Ralph: It was two to three

John: yeah, for this, for this new product, yeah. Two to three months. But then it’s now that’s what’s funny. It’s two, three months of man. Can’t get this to work. Let’s try it. Iterate. Iterate, iterate, iterate,

Ralph: even if you’re John Moran, like to figure out YouTube, it’s going to take you at least two to three months and you’ve got

John: I’m not the smartest person here. I’m just the one that spent the most amount of money, made the most amount of mistakes.

Ralph: Well, I know you’re not, I’m not, you’re not doing the videos themselves. Like they have obviously creative that’s being done for them, which is fine. Point is, is you’re the one that’s actually trying to figure it out. Like what message really works at the end of the day. And it takes two to three months to sort of figure that out.

Ralph: Best case scenario.

John: Now what’s nice is we didn’t hemorrhage any cash in the time. We just didn’t scale. So that’s what was cool is we were like, 200 a day, successful, 300 a day, successful, 600 a day, successful. Now we’re at 1200 so far. So good. but it took, 60 to 75 days to go through that process. I think a lot of happens is like,

Ralph: you’re looking at your NCAC as my NCAC, all of a sudden expanding my NCAC staying the same. I still scale all of a sudden NCAC. I’m seeing to be getting more new customers coming in. Like you’re doing it gradually, but you know, with a couple of hundred dollars a day incrementally. But obviously there is a captive audience on YouTube that is largely cold, which is really a big takeaway from this.

Ralph: It’s where can you find another blue ocean? Yeah. I can think of so many clients right off the top of my head that like the next level of scale YouTube a hundred percent.

John: And that’s, and usually people though, they are their worst enemy. What’s the ROAS on YouTube. If you say that word, fire yourself,

Ralph: Or if your agency says that. Yeah.

John: exactly if you don’t ever say those words, that’s like saying what was the click attributed ROAS on the Superbowl commercial?

Ralph: to say the exact same thing. I think we’ve done too many of these together. This is like our seventh one, by the way. So I feel like, I feel like let’s, let’s get to questions. All right. our term, great to be a real menace here.

John: Hey, Archer and Romina.

Ralph: you for coming on. It’s funny. It’s funny how some client, this is someone that works at tier 11.

Ralph: It’s funny how some clients forget we need inventory for ads. I think she was talking about like us selling the tier 11 sweatshirts, which I guess now we have to send one to Romina. anyway, just because she showed up in some funny question, Archer. As a, a long time watcher. Hey guys, I’ve learned a lot from you.

Ralph: What are the top three books you’d recommend for someone eager to dive deeper into the mindset of effective marketing? What are you currently reading? Oh, this is not

John: That is you, my good

Ralph: me.

John: that question’s all for you.

Ralph: someone eager to dive deeper into the mindset of effective marketing. I would say

Ralph: get Robert Gialdini, Dr. Robert Gialdini’s book called Influence. I would start there because that’s about psychology, really, and mindset itself.

John: It’s like 90 percent of

Ralph: It’s 90 percent of marketing. And he is the guy who actually coined the phrase social proof.

John: that’s my legacy. One day I’m going to make something that people are like, I’m going to create something people are going to resonate with, and just use as a, as like a, just, that is the standard in the industry. Now that’s what I’m gonna try to do one day. I’m going to figure

Ralph: we’re trying to do that actually with the branding, John tent, this is John tent right here, by the way. Well, maybe that’s it. Like I need something done, John tent,so anyway, I would, I would go there, there are a lot of books that I would read, but I would say, start with that one for sure.

Ralph: Archer. And if you haven’t read, if you’ve read that one, I would go from, I would go to persuasion, which is another great one. Thanks for CPO growth saying hello. Hi from Texas.

John: and Josh. I know those guys. Hey, Aiden. Hey, Josh.

Ralph: All right. So Amar, Hey boys, many of us experienced PPC guys want to leave freelance sites and start an agency.

Ralph: Can both of you share what you should do to kick in apart from these platforms? Where did we get clients? Real ones.

John: Yeah. If you want to be an agency, the first thing that I would say is look at the talent pool that you can hire quickly. Cause a lot of people are like, okay, I’m an agency and now I need clients. no, no, no. You’re an agency. Now you need prospective people to work as employees or work with you. The largest thing, and this is a person I’ve been involved in five agencies, my, my entire life, I’ve been involved in five of them, sold two, closed one.

John: And so. What I’ve learned is that sales does not cure all in an agency sales kills all in an agency that cannot fulfill the needs at the level that are up to your standards. That is a very, very, very, very difficult thing to say. Getting the clients is actually fairly easy. You just have to produce, Pardon my French, a shit ton of case studies that says like I did that for that person.

John: That’s 90 percent of everything as long as your pricing is not stupid. But the problem is that when you get out of five clients and you have to take on more internal resources in order to, perform at the same level or similar levels that you were at before, that’s where the agencies suck.

John: Come in that. That’s exactly what happens. And then you get people that are like, okay, I’m going to hire you. You’re going to pass me off to a junior. They’re not going to know what’s going on. I’m going to fire you and repeat the process, right? you probably have heard that if you’re an agency, that is the mantra of the agencies because you can’t farm out it.

John: Your brain power. So that part is the area that you really have to get over at the hurdle and it’s not cheap, it’s not easy, it’s not fast. so I would say, think about that first.

Ralph: sure. Like people are everything. I would say the one thing that I would do if I was starting again, I would figure out the one thing I do better than anybody else in the world, or at least I think I do. And I would go after that niche and start there and then work out from there.

Ralph: Like we were the first Facebook ads agency on the planet. Well, there was two other guys, but we’re the only one that actually really did it. So it’s we knew that was going to be something big. Obviously now there’s thousands of them, but I would figure out like a niche, a thing, something that you do better than anybody else.

Ralph: So you don’t become one of those agencies, John says, and I would start there. And work for cheap and work your ass off.

John: Yeah. And figure out how, how much you can actually pay the work, not how cheap you can get it. , that’s the thing. The, the moment that you’re like, oh, I can offshore this to this country for this price is so cheap. There’s a reason for it.

Ralph: It’s not necessarily high quality. All right, let’s get back to this. thanks a lot for doing this. How can we implement the feeder strategy for e commerce using shopping? I think we had this question last week.

John: Yeah. So one campaign using low priority on max clicks or manual CPC. The duplicated version of that campaign on a high priority on a t row as

Ralph: There you go. Perfect. Dylan Fetch says, how do you utilize the different attribution models in North beam specifically between clicks only and clicks and views? We’ve run into the scenario that you guys cover frequently or FB and app and click. Only give all credit bottom of funnel clicks and views, divide the credit and gives top funnel better CAC.

Ralph: I’m not sure the communicate that as FB over attributes, bottom of funnel. Very true. So how do you do that?

John: so I don’t use first click. I’m sorry, I don’t use clicking views. Clicking views means an AI interpretation of what it thinks happened, but usually defaults to whatever proactive channel spent the most.

Ralph: about North beam specifically. Okay.

John: so what happens is if you use click and views and you’re running Google and meta, no, if you’re in YouTube and meta, But meta spending five times as much as YouTube, it just naturally gets five times the attribution that it didn’t know where it came from.

John: So it basically takes zero data and says, okay, I have all these conversions here. I have 100 of them, meta spending five grand a day, YouTube spending one grand a day, you get four, you get one. So everything that you’re basing that expensive decision off of is probably directionally accurate, but I’m not going to take clients harder to spend.

John: And test that theory when I don’t know more. So click and views. I don’t use it. I use cold traffic and first click as my one point of truth, not singular, but as one point of truth. And then I look at and Google. Then I look at my back end of attribution. Then I look at the impact. Then I start to do my creative or then I do my my has been testing.

John: So when an attribution attribution is directionally accurate, pick one that you like and then use that. So say, I’m always going to use a seven day look back on a cruel on first click. What is that metric? It’s 0. 6. It doesn’t mean it’s 0. 6. It is 0. 6. Does 0. 6 go to 0. 7? Or does it go down to 0. 3 when you scale? It doesn’t have to be the right number. It just has to be directionally

Ralph: that’s like mini mini benchmarking almost

John: Right. It’s just mini benchmarking. That’s all it is. Take your point and say if this is getting If That should not go up if this works. And if it does go up, it doesn’t work.

Ralph: very true. just like our case study here, like all you were looking at NCAC, you’re like, all right, I’m just getting more and more NCAC isn’t expanding. NCAC staying the

John: was my goal. Exactly. Volume at NCAC is the goal. I don’t care what that number is that equates to that top line goal. It just can’t look worse.

Ralph: Right. When you get to that point, like that’s really what you ultimately want to be looking at, because I mean, customers don’t hire you to get the same customers, they want new customers. They want blue ocean. They want, to expand and grow the business. So,okay. Bridge is asking, I’m think I’m butchering his name.

Ralph: I’m not even going to go for the last bridge today. I’m trying to use search maximize classical website traffic marketing objective to replicate feeder strategy for e commerce. I am keeping lower bid caps to keep CPCs in control. Thanks again. I don’t know if there’s a question in there. There

John: Okay. So basically he’s just trying to use maximize clicks on search. You can, but the problem is a max clicks on search is even more expensive than max click on shopping by 40%. So I would say try to use max clicks on shopping and then a T row as in shopping, just because you’re, it’s going to be a hard jump to make that efficient just because the CPC search are typically more, more than shopping.

Ralph: you go, bridge. That’s your name

John: Is it roll or Roel? I don’t

Ralph: Roll. Roll Roel.

John: I’m thinking of the Christmas song with Noel, so that’s why I’m just replacing it with

Ralph: Roll Ro. All right. How can you find how many days the sales cycle is without an attribution tool like Wicked using meta to generate demand using the L one, L two L three setup? Good question.

John: So, typically what I would say is if you’re not using Google, so you don’t get the little cheater engine of what your brand is typically on your impressions to conversion. My, Again, I test everything by scale, so if it’s working well, increase your 3 by 50 percent and leave it a week, and then see when your conversions actually start to increase.

John: Now, you can only really test this if it’s working well, but if you’re running an L1, and you’re worried about attribution, You’re probably already in a position where it’s working quite well. So increase all three because you’re not going to start to increase just one and then fail on the remarketing.

John: So you have to increase all three because you’re trying to exacerbate the volume of a funnel. You’re not trying to interrupt the flow. So increased by a one, two and three by 50%. And then just watch. Okay. When does my, I’ll say my traffic go up on my website and then I see my conversion rate dip on my website and then I see my conversion rate come back on my website.

John: The time between where you see the increase in users and then the normalization of that conversion rate is typically your time lag.

Ralph: it kind of brings up one of the questions that are here. I’m actually gonna show this because we’ve got plenty of questions that we’ve gotta get to and gonna get back over to it. Is the difference between North Beam and Wicked, because we’ve got another question in here that’s sort of like that, and what.

Ralph: How do you look at the two North beam, wicked,

John: I use them the same exact way. They’re just going to give you different broken clocks. I mean, that’s why attribution is not accurate. It’s just interpreted.

Ralph: I’m trying to get back to our questions here. This is hard being the producer and the host at the same time. All right.

John: the easy job. I just walk

Ralph: All right. From, here’s the question. I’ll be from John’s charity. Use educational videos as ad creative on YouTube

John: from John’s chair.

Ralph: John’s chair. Do you use educational videos as ad? I think he’s asking, what content do I use for my YouTube ads? If I’m not mistaken, Albeck.

John: Yeah,

Ralph: Yeah,

John: I think so from Josh. I don’t know what that is. So I’m just gonna assume you’re saying like from for us. But yes, educational videos that creative on YouTube is all we use. I, I, that’s been my model. I’ve never actually sent traffic to the website. If you see a YouTube ad from tier 11, chances are when you click the CTA, it’s going to be watch more and you’re going to go to that video or YouTube channel.

John: So you can be educated. That’s how we sell. I mean, yeah. It’s that’s if we can talk the talk and show you how we walk the walk, and I will pay to prove to you that we are the best, I’m not going to sell you anything. It’s still consultative. We may even not take you on as a client, but I’m trying to show everybody.

John: We know what we’re doing by this. It’s easy.

Ralph: this will eventually become a video that will be, you will see as a pre roll some portion of it. I’ll back if that, if that gives you your answer, we have got four minutes left, so we might want to go round Robin or what

John: Yeah, let’s go fast. Let’s see. let’s just do a real quick rapid fire. How much time would you say you need to have a third party attribution tool over five grand per month and at least more than two channels? I would say that’s what you would need it. John, can we get a separate video guide using tools like North beam, et cetera?

John: You can share some gold now. yeah, we’ll be doing more wicked videos. North beam is something that they’re doing a little bit more enterprise and MMM. So it’s not gonna be as useful to the majority of small to medium sized businesses up to about 100 million a year. So We will be doing more wicked videos.

John: It’s still on development though, in terms of the product suite. So there will be more when it’s a little bit more ready to, be utilized with the same teachings that we’re teaching here. I would say that there there’s modifications being made

Ralph: Yeah. We might even get, wicked Scott on here at some point in time, once

John: that’d be

Ralph: ready for prime time. So, okay. We’ll keep going here.

John: Thank you for giving us so much value. Do you use education videos as a creative? Yes, we

Ralph: was the question. Okay. Got it. Got it. Got

John: Yeah. That’s all we use. Yep. I can’t convince you for fun.

John: it. Well, it’s going to take like lots and lots of, like when, when a lead comes in for tier 11, they usually say, Hey, I’ve watched like, Okay. 20 videos, I’ve listened to a hundred episodes of perpetual traffic. Like it takes a while to convince people, like this is a six figure sale in most cases,right. I also don’t want people to come in and be like, who are you? It’s like God, like man, alright, here’s everything that you ever will hear anything about us ever.

Ralph: you that we actually know what we were doing by putting out educational content. If that’s what you’re doing, if you’re selling a service, that is a very good thing. That is a worthwhile time. Even if you’re not pitching. Like we’re not

John: Yeah. I want you to watch all the content and say, I disagree and please don’t call us . that’s what we want.

Ralph: What our sales guy just to be an order taker. Really?John Ho has a

John: Target, have you seen work best on demand gen and how would you evaluate success given a metric? So, so I actually, have had nothing but bad luck on demand gen for anything that’s not lead magnet. demand gen is very good at awareness is very inexpensive. It’s display heavy. It’s feed heavy. , it’s, it’s not like I’m not using it for selling or lead generation.

John: It’s just Hey, you want this case? So do you want this download? Do you want the seven step guide? You want this coupon? You want this, it’s going to be massive. Those are typically leading into a email funnel. But it has very little to do with, okay, they saw us on demand gen. And now we’re going to go, demand gen is very, very, very high level.

John: the targeting that usually though is a lookalike audiences or interest based segmentation. So things I’m interested in or interest with a purchase intention is the one that I’ve usually seen best, but I will come at them with a very high level. I don’t be like interested in shoes. Want to buy a shoe?

John: It’s, Oh, you’re interested in shoes. How about this handy guy for the best running shoe for 2024? Like I’m going to, I’m going to do it that way. Cool. Bridge. shopping doesn’t allow controlling search terms. Keep doing negatives or yes, negatives and feed optimizations. Look at your titles and your descriptions of your feed.

John: Use the GMC rule to append or prepend different keywords in your title. What would happen if you added a product title to your negative keyword list? Will it work off a skew barcode only? If you added a Product. No, yeah, it’ll, it’ll still work off of title and skew and descriptions. So if you’re saying like, Hey, I want to sell Samsonite luggage without selling Samsonite luggage, you exclude Samsonite and the things you see things like hard side, luggage, carry on best luggage, those things absolutely come in.

John: Yes.

Ralph: got time for one last one. Cause we are at time.

John: well, that’s one. And we’re actually at the last one. Hello, John. A rap question for John. Do you just learn from mistakes, testing hypothesis? Are there anywhere to get information ideas from? No, I’ve been rabbit holing for eight years, and I’m like, I sit there in the shower thinking like, what if?

John: So I have a weird brain that just wants to break things. I like lock picking. Like I like trying to figure things out and ways to get by things. So that’s just how I’ve been born my whole life. So a lot of time, the information that deals are coming from really too basic in my understanding of how Google works.

John: It’s here’s how TRO has works Mike. Yeah. But I’m usually leveraging like multiple campaigns, batch types of bidding strategies to exacerbate how the learning is working. So it’s usually just my crazy ass. I call them tinfoil hat days where I’m like, I think I can break it this way. so unfortunately it’s just me by myself in the shower, which I don’t think you can join me there.

John: Sorry.

Ralph: Yeah. Sam would have a real problem with that. I think it was another man.

John: I don’t know if my wife would be happy with that. It would probably have to be a good management fee, though, at least.

Ralph: can we sell that as a product, get into the shower with John?

John: don’t know, probably. I’d have to do like an R rated video on YouTube, which would probably get banned, but yeah, well, let’s try it.

Ralph: pricing on that. We’ll get TJ on that. He’ll productize that.

John: It’s shower time with John.

Ralph: Maybe that’s what next week’s episode is going to be. We’re just going to interview you from the shower, blur out.

John: strategy that we’re going to be using today is going to be

Ralph: My dove soap. all right. Well, thank you so much everybody for coming today on our YouTube live on a Thursday, I don’t know. Like these are pretty,

John: snuck attack ya.

Ralph: cool. Like we changed the day and the time and everything and people still show. So really appreciate everyone coming. we will post socials, our next one.

Ralph: For next week, which I believe will be on a Friday for next week, if I’m not mistaken.

John: But the answer is what shower do you use? We need to know.

Ralph: But yeah, well

John: Tune in next week to

Ralph: tune in next week to find out.

John: I’m, I’m going to put my webcam in

Ralph: Webcam in the shower. Oh my God. That’ll get us banned on YouTube. That’s for damn sure.

John: that will.

Ralph: All right. Well, thanks John

John: Awesome. Everybody.

Ralph: We’ll talk to you next week.

John: Thanks everyone. Take care. Bye.

Ralph: All right. So that is this week’s episode. I hope you enjoyed it. It’s a longer one. Like I said, you might have to listen to it twice, especially if you have had a challenge recently, or just have had a challenge in general, figuring out how to get YouTube into your marketing.

Ralph: And, you know, with billions of users on YouTube, there is so much traffic on YouTube and if you can figure this out, and it took John a couple of months to do this, remember like your first shot at it, you’re probably not going to succeed, but hopefully today’s episode will steer you in the right direction in order to help you scale and grow your business.

Ralph: And of course, if you need our help, you can always get that over at your 11. com.

Ralph: So please make sure wherever you listen to podcasts, leave us a rating and a review. We really do appreciate that. That’s the only way that we get this out to a larger audience and help markers like yourself scale and grow. And of course, all the resources that we mentioned here on today’s show will be over at perpetual traffic.

Ralph: com. And like I said, once again, if you’re not subscribed to our channel, make sure that you do do that over at perpetual traffic. com forward slash. YouTube.

Ralph: So on behalf of my awesome cohost, Lauren E. Petrillo until next show. See ya.