Episode 665: The #1 Secret to Spending Less and Making More on Amazon

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Ralph and John are throwing conventional wisdom out the window with a mind-blowing Amazon ad case study that’ll leave you questioning everything. Spoiler alert: less Amazon spend + smarter Facebook and YouTube ads = MORE revenue. It’s all about contribution, not attribution, folks! This episode is packed with actionable insights, groundbreaking data, and a healthy dose of humor. Tune in to unlock the secrets of Amazon’s black box and discover how to outsmart the algorithm. Your future profits will thank you. 

Chapters:

  • 00:00:00 – Welcome to Ralph and John’s World
  • 00:00:24 – A Feeder Strategy Unveiled
  • 00:00:39 – Data Secrets for Scaling Big
  • 00:01:23 – Cracking the Amazon Code
  • 00:02:35 – Numbers Don’t Lie: Tracking Sales
  • 00:03:19 – Behind-the-Scenes Breakdown
  • 00:04:15 – Live and In Action
  • 00:05:53 – Game-Changing Ad Revelations
  • 00:08:12 – The “Contribution vs. Attribution” Debate
  • 00:08:40 – The Brand Loyalty Puzzle
  • 00:11:12 – The Revenue Surge Experiment
  • 00:22:55 – Ad Fatigue or Audience Overload?
  • 00:33:16 – Spend Smarter, Scale Faster
  • 00:34:01 – Attribution Tools Face-Off
  • 00:34:14 – Unpacking GA4 and Wicked Reports
  • 00:35:18 – Redefining Spend-to-Revenue Success
  • 00:37:19 – Open Mic: Questions That Matter
  • 00:37:37 – Shopping Insights from Google
  • 00:39:27 – YouTube Ad Masterclass
  • 00:40:43 – A Deep Dive into YouTube Optimization
  • 00:44:54 – E-Commerce Data That Drives Strategy
  • 00:58:17 – PMAX + Feeder: A Winning Combo
  • 00:59:14 – Wrapping Up: Next Steps Revealed

LINKS AND RESOURCES:

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Read the Transcript Below:

The #1 Secret to Spending Less and Making More on Amazon

The #1 Secret to Spending Less and Making More on Amazon

Ralph: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the perpetual traffic podcast. This is your host, Ralph burns and the founder and CEO of tier 11. And today’s show is a really important rebroadcast from our tier 11 lives, which you do every Friday at 2 30 PM Eastern myself and John Moran, usually Members of our team, where we go into case studies of successes and also failures we’re having on all the different platforms.

Ralph: And if you’ve been a follower of the show for any period of time, you know, that we have been advocating a strategy called the feeder strategy on Google. And on meta, this is not just a Google strategy. It started off as a Google strategy and it has been. Absolutely essential and scaling up our e commerce brands in particular, this brand, which we’re going to talk about here today, which is on the higher end of average order value anywhere between a hundred and 200 AOV on that first transaction, and then.

Ralph: There’s a recurring revenue model [00:01:00] here that works so they can actually spend more to acquire a customer, that NCAC number, new cost to acquire a customer, NCAC, very, very important. And tier 11 data suite allows us to be able to see this with a great deal. Of clarity, so that’s the first part to it. The exciting part to this is what is coming inside of tier 11 data suite.

Ralph: And for all of those of you who sell on Amazon, in addition to your own website, you know that when you start spending more on top of funnel. Awareness type of traffic on meta YouTube, not branded search, not keyword search. Those people are intent based, but top of funnel, they don’t know who you are.

Ralph: Maybe they don’t even realize that they have a problem quite yet and you’re making them aware of a problem as well as a solution. You know, if we go back to the five levels of awareness with Eugene Schwartz, it’s a book we quote all the time here. The point is, is at the top of funnel, if you’re [00:02:00] also selling on Amazon, you should see a lift on Amazon when you spend more top of funnel.

Ralph: It’s just the basics of how this whole thing works. Now, in an ideal scenario, you only have a few competitors. In the Amazon space, in this case, we’ve got like a handful of competitors, but, uh, in a, the pet niche, which has very specific applications for a certain type of disease state, uh, with dogs in particular.

Ralph: So. We all know that this is the case. You spend more on the top of funnel. You’re going to make more on the Amazon side, but how do you actually measure it? Well, of the most exciting coming features of data suite is that you will be able to track all of those Amazon sales inside tier 11 data suite, and we’re going to show you here today, how we’ve been able to do this with one client using spreadsheets.

Ralph: This is a feature that’s actually coming right now. And if you know your numbers and you know what your profit margin is on your Amazon sales, as well as [00:03:00] your brand sales on your site, This whole strategy is going to kind of bring it all together for you. So this is a pretty extensive. We get into the weeds here for a fair amount, a lot of screen sharing.

Ralph: So if you’re a marketing professional and you have a team, send this to your team as a follow up. This is you actually doing it. It’s almost a step by step tutorial on how to do this, but also using, outside resources to be able to track Amazon sales, which you now are going to be able to do within the next couple of months inside of tier 11 data suite, which is very, very exciting.

Ralph: So if you are listening to this. We do our best to explain it in an audio format, but I would highly encourage you to watch the YouTube version of this over on our YouTube channel. That’s because this is a teaching tutorial here. And that of course is over at perpetualtraffic. com forward slash YouTube.

Ralph: If you’re watching this the first day it comes out, you can also go over to the tier 11 YouTube and we’ve left links in the show notes there, so you can go [00:04:00] right to the video version of this and just watch it on your phone, listen to it on your phone, you know, as you’re riding a bike or, you know, you’re on the treadmill, you’re on your Peloton, or you’re in the gym, or you’re walking the dog or whatever it happens to be.

Ralph: So anyway, head on over to perpetualtraffic. com forward slash YouTube to see the video version of this. So without further ado, pretty excited about this week’s episode with myself and John, take it away, boys, Hey, we are live. We are live.

John: welcome to. 11 live on Friday. It’s good to be back. It feels like I haven’t talked to you in forever.

John: I know it feels like I’m having withdrawals. So I’m like waking up in the middle of the night. I’m like, Hey

Ralph: people. I’m like, Oh no, no one’s there. No one’s there.

Ralph: You even did one on your own, which when I was like flying, I don’t know what I was doing. I think it was flying actually that day. No, I was on the runway and you were [00:05:00] trying to get in. I’m like, I’m just messing everyone. I’m like emergency,

John: emergency. I can’t, I can’t log in.

Ralph: A little, literally I’m taxing and the stewardess just kept going by, just like, you need to shut that laptop now.

Ralph: I’m like, well, John Moran needs me. And I was like, I hope it got through. Uh, so anything for you, uh, the tier 11 live watcher viewer listener, we’ll do it here. even almost getting kicked off a DC 10 that day, which would have been very bad. Cause that was the last flight out of San Francisco.

Ralph: Uh, so today, we’re pretty excited about this one. We talked about this yesterday. We were doing an internal training call. I’m like, do that tomorrow on them alive.

John: Yeah,

Ralph: it was so cool. Cause it’s. well, I’m not going to, I’m not going to, but it’s spoil your thunder. does that expression under steal your thunder?

Ralph: How do you steal thunder? I don’t know. I don’t know. I’m not going to steal your thunder because I just want you to get into it, but this involves Amazon and spending less and making more,

John: right? [00:06:00] Yep. there’s been a a topic that is almost like when Facebook ads kind of first came out and it was like, all right This is really cool and and sexy and it works really well And everything’s like, started to grow but people are still not fully up to speed on The fakeness of certain areas or the pitfalls like remember facebook lead ads when it first came out It’s like you want seventeen hundred Pieces of spam immediately for 18 cents.

John: Look at all these leads. Right. I was like, well, right. So there’s really not been that much investigation into Amazon. from just the general ecosystem, just the general industry, I guess I would say. Yeah. The people that are usually in charge of Amazon are kind of like siloed and they’re definitely in their own, their own realm.

John: Cause it’s a full channel and it’s complicated. And what the hell is a cost? And it’s an ASIN and blah, blah, blah. I’ve been deep diving into Amazon for like the last year. And I’ve always actually found. More of a correlation between your Facebook spend and YouTube spend and Amazon sales than Amazon spend and Amazon sales.

John: And it’s always been, you know, you can actually reduce spend on Amazon and increased spend on Facebook [00:07:00] and Amazon’s revenue goes up. So we had a case study and I actually exported, the data suite data for a little bit more of an easier visual for everyone watch. But in the global. and the global task of decreasing nkac and increasing mer at scale is it’s always important to check each individual channel for in terms of contribution rather than attribution and then test it by making big bold changes.

John: So I guess it’s otherwise it just gets lost in the ebb and flow of heartbeat. That is great. digital marketing, we have a good week back. We could be back. We, but collectively overall last month, we did better than the month before. So it’s always lost in, in the shadows. I guess I would say your small changes.

John: So you have to be big, you have to be bold. You have to make really dangerous decisions quickly and then measure fast and appropriately. So I have a case study as to the, one of the companies that we are growing and scaling and the actual results of what we saw across the entire time.

John: So

Ralph: let me just stop you there for one second, before you get into it, you [00:08:00] said something that was really important there. So this is my job is to interpret John and to do the translation, but you said something, which we kind of stumbled on and you said it in passing yesterday. And I want to bring it up to our audience here today.

Ralph: It’s contribution, not attribution. Explain that to us, because it’s like everyone’s so focused on attribution, but really they all work together. It’s contribution at the end of the day. How do you figure that out? Well, you figure that out through what we’re going to be talking to here today. Obviously tier 11 data suite is a solution.

Ralph: However, just explain that concept to people, because I think it’s an important one to understand.

John: Absolutely. So there is a massive amount of brand trust to Amazon. People are loyal to Amazon. If you’re a prime user right now, watching this year, if you are a prime user, you are loyal to Amazon, which is how it goes.

John: you’ve signed up for a subscription. Now you’re not necessarily loyal to all the [00:09:00] products that you buy, but you’re loyal to Amazon as to which you buy those products from, so if you said, Hey, I want a pair of Nikes. Do you go to Amazon or do you go to Nike? Most people are now are just kind of jumping to Amazon first.

John: It becomes kind of like a secondary shopping cart to your business. Check it out on Nike. See what the price is over on

Ralph: Amazon.

John: So let’s role play. How long does Nike take to ship from their shipping department after you place an order? I mean, definitively,

Ralph: I would say, I think it’s like four to six weeks.

Ralph: Is it that long for Nike disorder shoes on our website on there? So it’s been a while since I’ve ordered on

John: Nike because I order everything on Amazon. Let’s just say this. Can you guarantee that it goes out tomorrow? Okay, when did I would say within two weeks, I would say, yeah, so we know it doesn’t go out same day or tomorrow.

John: It’s not like it’s like four weeks, right? Yeah, I got about, yeah, I put them [00:10:00] down a ship

Ralph: manufactured as soon as you order it and then they ship it over a couple of months, you know, whatever, whatever, you

John: know, in case there’s an iceberg, then it’s a year. So it goes by the way of the Titanic. So right now it’s like, okay, if I order from Nike, when does the ship don’t know when does it arrive?

John: Don’t know. How do I return? Don’t know. Does it restocking fee? Don’t know. Like you don’t know anything. Amazon’s like, it’ll get there tomorrow and you can one click and I’ll even give you the money back before I even come and pick it up off your doorstep. Cool. that’s where people are loyal. They’re the Walmart of the internet.

John: That’s Walmart did the distribution first. So people are loyal to Amazon. Now, what that does though, when you’re looking at omni channel attribution is what is Amazon attributing as sales and versus what is Amazon contributing. Two for sales. And that’s the difference is it’s simply the place that people go to buy the product you’ve already spent money educating the person on, or do people go to Amazon one day and say, I don’t know, shoes, not really, there’s no connection to your paid media platforms.

John: So what we looked at [00:11:00] when we exported all of our information out of data suites into this nice big visual graph with everything here, what we noticed is our spend levels, since we started using. Data suite. And I’ll just do like the first four weeks. Let’s just do an act on, on, on average, the first four weeks, we spent an average of 50 or 48, 000 per week.

John: So 48, 000 per week. Okay. Last four weeks, we spent an average of 111, 000. So more than a two X increase in our average

John: weekly spend. When we look at our, uh, Amazon spend, our Amazon spend went from 3, 600. each week on average to 3, 800 on Amazon spend each week. So 200 increase in Amazon spend 200. Now what our revenue on Amazon went from an average of 47, 000 per week to an average of 75. 1, [00:12:00] 000 per week, so a 200 per week increase on average somehow gained a 35, 000 increase in revenue on average.

John: What is that row as infinite? Really? It’s like spend 200 bucks, get 35 more grand. You’re a normal kind of person looking at R. O. I. Figure says, wow, scale. I would say Amazon, your Amazon agency is brilliant. Whoa, so it’d be really stupid if we just paused Amazon, right? And go from 35 and 4, 500 dollars and spend to 400 bucks because it ran half a day when we it for this week of December 29th So even after black friday after cyber monday, we kept basically going into into january And wouldn’t you know it that our 36 and 44 hundred dollar?

John: Weekly spend going down to 400 bucks made us 2, 000 more. Somehow it went from 74 to 76. Our ad spend cut 90 percent and our revenue increased by two. Well, that can’t be right because Murr was probably hurt, right? Well, if we were wrong, the Murr would [00:13:00] be reduced, went from 158. Well, what about subscribers?

John: Mer less subscribers are going to pay you anyway. 1 26 to 1 27. All right. Well, what about cost per acquired first time customer? Well, 1 66 to 1 60 went down. There’s literally no downside to anything that we’ve done in terms of top line and CAC, media efficiency ratio, no subscribers, our subscription service.

John: I mean, that is, probably, I mean, damn, that is the most solid line I’ve ever seen of our new subscribers that didn’t get hurt, it didn’t go up or down. So we can kind of use our process of elimination by saying, do we actually think that Amazon spend was actually doing anything No, so it’s a tributing, not contributing.

John: It’s just very, very, very simple. It is a secondary shopping cart to people’s websites. Now, you’re never going to send traffic directly to Amazon and say, man, I hope you learn there. But when you land on Amazon, when you’re more closer to the buying decision, you’re pushed over the edge by, it’s free. I’ll get it tomorrow.

John: I know there’s one click returns and there’s 4, 000 five star reviews. [00:14:00] Yep. By now. So that is always where it is going to be the attributing versus contributing. That is the difference of those factors. And that is always what you have to look at in every single channel, even Amazon, which maybe people on here have said, you know what?

John: I never actually thought about that. You can see search terms in Amazon. You can see what people are searching for when they buy your products through Amazon ads. You can see the ASIN. You can see the search terms. You can see if it’s a product search, a brand search, or a cold search. That’s absolutely there.

John: All of this data is readily available right inside the platform. People don’t really look at it. People just kind of brush it off as to, okay, Amazon’s kind of a cool little black box, and I don’t know, but that agency’s delivered me no amazing results. Like we didn’t even increase our ad spend and they went up 35 grand a week.

John: Ha ha. They’re pretty good. And that’s, that’s what we always have to look at is our global metrics or MPIs data suite to show that we’ve been increasing only on meta and not every other platform only on meta. And the only thing really getting better is meta and Amazon.

John: that is a correlated data that is causation and correlation, both in [00:15:00] one. So

Ralph: the devil’s advocate here. I mean, this is obviously, I mean, you still have to spend 400 spend, which is on what types of terms? I have to assume

John: it’s brand terms. Yeah, so there was, there was actually really close brand names.

John: So this brand does kind of describe what it is. It is an immune defense for dogs. The first word is critical. So you don’t see a lot of critical, but you do see a lot of, the company’s other brand that is in store. So people go to Amazon and buy it because this brand is also in target. It’s also in Walmart.

John: It’s also on chewies. com it’s on their website. So this already has some. Grassroots branded searches that people are going to do, even if they’re not even, even if they didn’t see an ad on Facebook, they’re still going to go to go to Amazon and see if they can get it off of Amazon, even on a subscription, because it’s something that they normally buy, whether in person or they bought it before online.

Ralph: So same brand sold by two different companies. Obviously, one of the companies that works with us. But then the other company, so [00:16:00] you are getting some bleed over on Amazon, probably most likely, no matter what, just the way that it is.

John: Yeah, and it’s actually what’s interesting is there is 2 different brand names.

John: So it’s technically there’s like that smart and direct. They’re the same company, but that product’s been under both those brands. So. So you see searches on both those brands because they were on one brand changed over to the other brand, but there’s still people from two or three years ago. They’re still trying to search for it.

John: So it’s, that’s what’s really crazy is we can see that the increases on meta contributed to an increase on Amazon, but this is just identical to Google brand. If you do more grassroots marketing, more omni channel marketing and more pro prospecting and push, yeah. Your brand campaign is going to continuously look better and better and better and better for no additional aspen.

John: It’s like that one case study where I had 50 bucks and made 173, 000 on Black Friday. I didn’t even need to spend the 50 bucks. I just had to show up at least once. Right,

Ralph: right. So on this one that I, I assume like the Google branded search, obviously is benefiting from that lift as well. I mean, you got [00:17:00] to figure, all right, people are then, you know, Google searching that brand.

Ralph: Can we go into, or can we look into data suite and sort of see the correlation? I’m not sure if these guys have the Amazon integration. They don’t as of yet.

John: Not right now. Yeah. That’s why we had to do this kind of manually because track them separately. But then when we combine them, we’re like, wait a minute.

John: you can kind of see right there, there’s actually no lift. for fun, actually, let me pull this up real quick. Hold on. Because . That is actually a fairly interesting point that I have not covered, time period, if we just take all the December compared to the time period before of do end of, October and all November.

John: So it’s basically. December 1st yesterday compared to previous period, our spend on brand is actually, down 1, 200. So we spent 6, 100 and then we reduced it 20 percent down to 4, 883. So we took back 1, 260 in spend and our conversion value went up 55%, went from 14 percent [00:18:00] to 21%. So we reduced spend on brand and still got 55 percent more increase.

John: That sounds really close to the increase between a Amazon revenue of 42, 000 and now it’s on revenue of 80, 000. What’s 50 percent of 75, 000. So this is about an 80 percent increase on Amazon. So the global lift, we saw 80 percent more buyers on Amazon than we did a people actually Googling the brand name and buying there.

John: We have more. Redirected traffic from ourselves after prospecting to Amazon that we do to our own website, Google arrow brand name,

Ralph: unbelievable, but are seeing a lift on, but you are seeing a lift on brand though.

John: I mean, it absolutely, you see a lift on brand. Yeah, lift on brand is half of the rate of lift on Amazon.

Ralph: Got it. Got it. Makes sense. So like that can obviously you’re doing that same thing. You’re reducing spend over on Amazon to increase overall mer, but the same could be said on the branded campaigns on Google potentially as well. I mean, they [00:19:00] both have sort of the same effect. They’re going to buy it no matter what, because you got them aware of it over on the meta platform.

John: Right. And that’s why what’s funny about this too is. If we look here, this is what I love about, I love about data suite too. If we go into funnel vision here,

Ralph: Our beloved data suite. For those of you tuning in just for that, we have Romina here, just specifically for data suite.

John: Oh yeah. I’m supposed to sing data suite where the data is so sweet. There

Ralph: we go. That was going to count. Cause I can’t sing. All right. You didn’t know that John Moran could sing. So gentlemen, John, John Moran’s voice box is going to be one of the new people that are going to come on live.

John: You didn’t think that John Moran can sing.

John: And now, you know, John Moran can’t sing.

Ralph: And we’ve got MRI proof that you have a voice box, right? What’s this? A CT scan. Sorry. Potato, potato. I don’t know. So we are inside a tier 11 data suite right now. We’re looking at all the different platforms, clean, [00:20:00] Beautiful data, very little on the other side of the equation.

Ralph: Look at that. Look at how few other visits there are away on the bottom. That’s the best column for me. The unattributed unknowns, others direct, it’s like it’s almost completely eliminated

John: here. So yeah, other is 33. And this is just from the point where we can’t tell where these people came from before tracking started.

John: Yeah, that’s okay. So here’s, what’s cool. The cost on meta went up, cost on Google went down. The clicks on meta went up, but this is actually a lot of video. That’s why also the clicks didn’t follow this right here. The clicks, though, on Google went down, spent less, got more. Okay, spent less, new revenue. Also, new revenue also went up.

John: That’s interesting. Returning revenue went down. That’s okay. We don’t have any control over that. The spend decreasing, new visits went down 40 percent and now we’re down to a blistering 2. 3 percent cold traffic inside of the Google Ads ecosystem. That is ridiculous. Yeah. When you see that much warm traffic at 90, [00:21:00] what was that?

John: 97. 7 percent cold. They’re warm. 97. 7 percent warm means that I move here. We get there. Yeah. And that’s, those are all the correlating factors. The same exact thing is happening on Amazon, only worse. Amazon’s rocketing to the moon. We keep hitting record weeks every week on Amazon because we’re scaling meta.

Ralph: Yeah. So just to bottom line this, we have two other customers that have Amazon integrated in. This is a beta for wicked reports, which we pushed and pushed and pushed for, by the way, as you know, partial owners in the company, the point is it’s like, once this client. And we haven’t said their name, we’ll just say PWD just to keep it, keep it cool with everyone.

Ralph: the point is that once you have Amazon, you’ll be able to see Amazon as a line inside data suite, which is even more beautiful because you don’t have to create your own spreadsheets to figure all that stuff out. that’s the big breakthrough and you can get [00:22:00] breakdowns by each individual channel and you can see exactly what you’re talking about.

Ralph: What you’re doing in a spreadsheet here. But you can, it’s because I had to add up

John: Amazon. Yeah, we didn’t have Amazon integrated with, with the wicked interface. Right.

Ralph: But it’s coming, I mean, that is very exciting because the idea of like spending less and making more, like is that the goal of everyone?

Ralph: Like in life, you know, when it comes to business.

John: Yeah. And it’s kind of funny. there’s always that like spend less and make more. Then also like what people usually have that problem is, okay, how do we just experience exponential scale, like exponential growth, for everyone out there.

John: That’s also been trying to feeder strategy. I have a good proof that actually started on, the 9th of the 29th of last month. I wanted to share this as a, as a quick case study for everyone too. So everyone out there, it’s going to be kind of important. Everyone out there has heard of the term ad fatigue, Facebook coins at fatigue.

John: Okay. And we’ve been discovering with feeder strategy that there really isn’t [00:23:00] such thing as ad fatigue. It’s it’s not ad fatigue, it’s audience fatigue. And this is something I want everyone to kind of stop and pause and really reflect on because when you remove. Data and you kind of put yourself back, let’s say 200 years ago and into just a normal person’s brain that hasn’t changed in 200 years, there’s never been a point in time where someone walks by like an ad on the wall like, wow, that’s a cool ad and then they see it like one more time 10 days later and like, I hate that ad so much, there’s never been that time where it’s like a group you walk by the really like it.

John: And then the more people that walk by, everyone just hates it. That’s ad fatigue that doesn’t exist. That’s not a thing. If it’s a good ad, it’s a good ad, but it’s create it’s audience fatigue. It’s because the same 10 people keep walking by that same ad and now they just don’t engage with it. So it’s, it’s really funny.

John: It’s tricked an entire industry by saying, Oh, that ad’s fatigue. The ad has not fatigued audience did watch this. When you look at [00:24:00] what we did with feeder strategy here on the, on the, on the 20, the 29th, What we can see is that this campaign has had the same, the same cost. This campaign has had the same cost, but then we added an L zero reels here, which actually started to drive a whole bunch of more clicks.

John: 1. 9 million percent more clicks. Cause I had like one that went to 19, 000, but we, we ended up spending, spent 20 Gs. Now, what’s funny about this is when you look at the NCAC, the NCAC is horrible. 542. But then you start to see these things going down by like 9. 7 percent and going down by 2. 3%.

John: So what ends up happening is these ads here, these two have not actually changed. If we look at this ad here, actually, you know what, let’s do this for fun. Um, I’m going to pull up the actual ad because I have a pretty unique little use case that we have an ad named Paul. Paul is one of our ads in this, this account.

John: And the ad of Paul has not fatigued and we [00:25:00] spent a lot of money on it. So watch this in our we call them gluttonous hero or gluttonous hero because they’re sticky here’s paul This is paul again number copy if we look I don’t know So it’s like november 1st as I forget when we started this one campaign Paul has had 232, 000 of ads on, on Paul or 2, 032, 000 amount spent.

John: Paul is not a fantastic, amazing next best thing at it’s a dog asleep on a couch. Whoa. What’s the ad fatigue of that? You just screw yourself. There is no such thing as a fatigue. It’s a dog on a couch. It’s not even a great ad, but it doesn’t stop because we keep feeding it. And that one little, that little ad of Paul, when you view charts, there’s the new new customers.

John: And this is the, the money that was spent on it. That’s not going to fatigue because as soon as it starts to fatigue, we start adding in more traffic and what ends up happening is we didn’t scale one. We didn’t scale the other one. We just added reels. What ended up happening? 14 percent increase in spend 26 percent increase in sales, 25 percent increases in [00:26:00] customers and our NKAC actually dropped another 3.

John: So once it started to plateau, we just fed it more people. Why? Because it’s not audience fatigue. There’s not ad fatigue. It’s audience fatigue. We need more people. We need to feed it. So you measure that new ad and that new video has a shitty end cac. That’s okay. It’s not supposed to, it’s supposed to get eyeballs, supposed to get users so that my conversion campaigns don’t fatigue with their audience.

John: They can now get fresh new eyes and guess what? Paul still works. We’re probably going to spend a million bucks on that one little sleepy dog. it doesn’t have to be amazing creative. It just has to be creative that works with that audience. And then you are just feeding it more and more and more users.

John: You don’t have to say, Oh, that one burnt. Why did it burn? I don’t know. People woke up one day and said, I did, I changed my mind. Collectively. Everyone happened on Tuesday. No, it’s not a thing. It’s not possible. So it was really important when we’re looking at all of our omni channel. And then again, as we start adding more users, we see more conversions inside the conversion campaigns, see more conversions, conversion campaigns.

John: Guess what happens to Amazon?

Speakers 1: It

Ralph: [00:27:00] increases more users magically. Yes. So really when it comes back down to it, I mean, the term ad fatigue, which as long as I’ve been in digital marketing, that has been a thing or just advertising just in general, really is caused by audience fatigue at the end of the day.

Ralph: And I mean that we used to call it ad blindness or banner blindness back in the day when I would buy, you know, banner ads from actual websites and call them up and like buy their inventory. Like, Hey, you know, you rank for this keyword. I wouldn’t tell them I’ll buy a piano for that one. Yeah, I was just like, literally, that’s literally how I started as an affiliate.

Ralph: I would go and find the terms that I wanted to rank for. You go to all the organic listings, all those top websites and I would call them and buy ad space above the fold. And that’s how I became a super affiliate. Believe it or not.

John: Did you have a rotary phone back then? I did.

Ralph: No, it was one of those ones you pick up and you get like, you tap the thing and you call an operator

John: operator, get me

Ralph: this thing.

Ralph: And then the thing that you pick [00:28:00] up, anyway, the point is, is that that is actually that’s the cause of it. And I think the ad networks. If you really think about this, we talked about this yesterday on our training calls. Like they want to go, they want to put your ad in front of people who are most likely to buy.

Ralph: Yes. As many times as possible until they actually wear them out and then they buy. And at that point, that’s when your CPAs, that’s when your NCACs start to increase over time. And that’s why this strategy is so vital because it goes out and finds new audiences. With the same ads, those ads aren’t fatigued.

Ralph: The audience themselves are fatigued because the platforms circle the wagon around the warmest traffic, the easiest traffic, whether it’s PMAX, whether it’s meta, any campaign, any conversion campaign, that’s what they do.

John: Well, it also gets worse because what meta has baked in is meta is baked in the fact that when you launch a new [00:29:00] campaign It pushes it to warm traffic first.

John: It does that it does that to reward you with hey, this ad’s working It does it to reward their users Exactly. There’s a different ad about a product you like Here’s the next best thing about this thing that you’re semi interested in so it makes sense because it it rewards, you know meta You believe you’re being rewarded because you’re you know, maybe um More novice advertiser, and you measure by in app ROAS.

John: So you’re like, wow, look at this. This looks great. Like everything is, is predefined to bake into help meta and their, and their user base. But the advertisers here, the people on this call all get the short end of the stick. So this is a new product that we launched, AP here. So this is a new product that was launched called AP.

John: And when we look inside of, if we’re not using obviously data suite, we’d have to do nothing but, purchases. So we’d have to have website purchases. And the website purchases are like, Hey, good job. we ended up getting nine for you. AP cost cap man. I don’t know what I did there. Hold on.

John: There we go. Look, we got nine purchases for you. Good. [00:30:00] But no, seven 90 got nine sales. All right. Not bad. And that’s your APL one manual cost cap. And then because we’re using the data suite and we are importing, it’s like, wait a minute, there’s nine purchases in one new customer on a new product that we literally launched.

John: Three days ago, what the hell? And so we look inside of, you know, wicked or APL one manual cost cap, we can see is 13. 5 percent cold traffic on a brand new product, on a brand new campaign, on a brand new audience with everybody excluded 180 days of website visitors, 180 days of purchasers, people have been engaging with our met it in instagram.

John: posts and ads, everybody’s excluded. This one said, Nope, here’s 85 percent cold or warm traffic. So then when we look inside of here, we’re like, what the hell’s going on? We actually spent 800 and we got one new customer. The other four are view through engagements. So we got view through conversions on a brand new product on a brand new audience in the first two days.

John: Actually, it all happened in one day. So you know what our, what we had to do, we [00:31:00] paused it. You can see it’s actually shut off. That’s why we paused all of our APs here. We then had to go into Meta, create a brand new account so that it wouldn’t have any of the issues. And now our 800 NCAC is down day one yesterday, which we just launched it back down now here again to 294.

John: That’s more than a hundred percent less. It’s 50 percent less. Like it’s, it’s starting to reduce pretty quickly. I don’t even check today. Let’s just more curious. What did today do? I haven’t got anything yet today. We can see, but that’s, what’s really interesting is this warm traffic is so ridiculous that you launched a new campaign medicine.

John: Here’s your nine sales. No one, one was real and 85 percent warm traffic. How are you supposed to grow a new product inside the meta ecosystem? We’re like, Oh, is that a new ad? Here’s 700 people that you had yesterday

Ralph: for those listeners and watchers here, which we are going to get to your questions here in just a moment.

Ralph: But, If you don’t have tier 11 data suite, which allows you or affords you the [00:32:00] opportunity to be able to see things in a global basis, would you recommend, I think we actually had this conversation, like a DM somewhere in Slack, would you recommend setting your attribution window as far as what you’re seeing inside ads manager and meta to one day click only and no view through just to make it like your true.

Ralph: as you say, a cruel accounting method, because that’s the harshest way in which to really look at things. And then you might be able to get a better idea as to what the platform is actually doing,

John: or does that even matter? So we’ve noticed that in the first three days, even before we got a click, or even before we got a purchase.

John: It was hitting warm traffic day one, so I don’t know what setting would cause, you know, meta to push off into, you know, different traffic because what it would be counting as a conversion. It was counting. It all happened in one day. Like, that was what was insane. we launched literally. Like the next day, all the clicks and all of the returning sales on all the existing customers happened in one day.

John: So we had to shut it down on day [00:33:00] four because day three blew up day one and two is like flatline. So that was what was interesting is that you could, yes, but the flip side of that coin is if you’re don’t have data suite and you’re looking at enough attribution, you have to have a benchmark of a one day click accrual that is so high.

John: And then hopefully after a week. A month, a quarter that, that actually, when you’re scaling, that is actually having a good effect on your top line. I don’t know what the ad spend is way more expensive than just paying for a tool to tell you. It’s too cumbersome to measure it

Ralph: that way. But no, it’s an interesting way of looking at it, but at the very least, I mean, it’s, what do you recommend for people that don’t have data suites?

Ralph: In this particular case, like what’s the best way of figuring out how to allocate your ad spend? Or is it just, is it really? It’s just looking at your source of truth. And that’s pretty much it. Like comparing to your Shopify store versus what you’re spending on Meta, Google, et cetera. Like, what was the method that we use before we actually had this tool?

Ralph: [00:34:00] Well, it was, you know, it’s funny as

John: I’ve been using a third party attribution tool for the last three years. almost four years now. And so I don’t know of a way to do this without that. That’s why I’ve invested in multiple third party attribution tools. I don’t need them to be 100 percent accurate.

John: I just need them to do a lot of the pre filtering that I know the individual channels will never even go near and GA four kind of sometimes maybe it looks a little good, but even that is a even that’s Dumpster fire, actually posted today in our leadership, a wicked versus GA four for 15 months in a thread.

John: And the thread is actually, it’s, it’s pretty, it’s pretty interesting. , I’ll actually share a screen on this thread because this is something that I think is, is pretty important to see and GA four. Yes, they do. They do have data driven attribution. Here’s what’s funny. Is this is wicked versus GA4 after 15 months.

John: this is actually called wicked because before it was data sweep back in, October of 2023, this is what I actually started tracking. So GA4 says out of 2700 sales, 1400 came from paid. And then we got 500 [00:35:00] indirect, 212 in organic, 10 in organic social, 60 unassigned, 175 referral, 162 in shopping, 28 in cross network, 27 in paid search, and 2 in paid social.

John: Pretty cool when I’ve only spent all my money on shopping campaigns.

John: Oh, period. But then when it comes in and says, yes, here’s your Google ads, here’s all of your revenue given directly to the proper channel, there was nothing else that came in except for a little bit in other 4, 600 bucks, which we did find was actually organic, but that’s what’s so funny as GA four is just like, I don’t know.

John: Yes. Here’s everything that worked. That means that I got 24 out of 14 out of 2, 700. Basically, I got 50 percent of the credit from the original source, 50%. Again, it goes to our fun little analogy. Your kid comes home from school with all C’s. They could be all F’s or they could be all A’s. Are you happy? No, they’re 50 percent off.

Ralph: Yeah, that’s pretty much what you just got. You just got a report card from GA4 that says, yeah, you got a C average, but you have no idea what you did on each [00:36:00] individual class. You have no idea what you did on each individual channel. It’s the same thing. I mean, there’s always going to be some direct.

Ralph: in that particular case, in wicked reports, there is unknown. There’s always going to be something. I mean, it’s never going to be 100 percent accurate. Never, ever, ever. But the point is, is you can reduce it. Like in one particular case with one customer, we reduced their unattributed unknowns by 90%.

Ralph: Yeah, from 140, 000 down to 14, 000. Like you’re still going to get some, but it’s like that 90%. That’s that was almost half of their traffic.

John: Yeah. just gets egregious. cause this is businesses. This is people’s livelihoods. This is their dream. This is their baby. This is their bank account.

John: I don’t, and pardon my French. I don’t have no fucking idea how people wake up one day and look at their savings account. And then the bank’s like, Hey, this is going to be 50 percent off. They’re like, Oh my God. 50 percent

Ralph: of your bank account. Isn’t that like, I don’t really know how much you [00:37:00] have in savings.

Ralph: It might be 50 K. It might be

John: 75 K. You don’t really know. Yeah. Would you like your statements only half, right? Um, keep it. That’s

Ralph: pretty much what the platforms do. That’s what GA4 does. And by the way, might as well bash the competition here. Oops, Hi Rez and Triple Whale do the same damn thing. So there you go.

Ralph: anyway, let’s get over to some questions here. yes,

John: have to show this. Mitch is first, the Beardpreneur, a very immaculate beard. It’s like got a perfect square shape. It’s cool. He’s got a

Speakers 1: damn good beard, Mitch, one of the best beards in the business.

Ralph: All right. Jose V. That’s boogie. All right. question from Jose V for a Google shopping campaign on a TROAS bid strategy.

Ralph: Does it enter a learning phase after a significant increase in budget from 5 to 100 a day?

John: So, yes, and find, it may not even say learning, but when you have a drastic increase in ad spend, what you will see is a drastic increase in your CPC. Now, if you’re using a low TROAS, that’s [00:38:00] especially going to happen.

John: You do want that, though. You want your first click to be, very aware and very prominent. You know, when you’re having your first impression, someone’s searching for something, they look up and they see you first, they look and they see you first on the search results on their phone, being first considered is worth it.

John: So. There will be a learning. What that learning will be is that your CPC is going to go up. Your spend is going to go up. That’s pretty much the only thing that’s going to happen. You might get some better search terms that you couldn’t enter those ecosystems, those auctions before because you weren’t spending enough CPC because your ad spend was so low, but you’ll see better search terms and higher CPC and higher ranking.

John: And then what it’s going to try to do is lower that CPC down a bit to see if it can still get as many conversions as possible with a higher ROAS and a high and lower CPA.

Ralph: Makes

John: sense.

Ralph: Thank you, Jose V. Stuart Little, Digital Platforms to Market Cigarettes in Canada. Any tips on how to avoid policy issues?

Ralph: Yeah, call them nicotine free. I’m just kidding.

John: Call them cancer sticks. Yeah, there you go. So the thing that we found in Canada with alcohol [00:39:00] and tobacco is you have to exclude everybody from 18 to 24, unfortunately. So Google has a rule where it’s like anything basically restricted to 21 year old or less, or it could be restricted to 21 year old less, you have to just exclude the 18 and 24.

John: That works most of the time. It’s actually worked where I’ve excluded it. I got suspended. I appealed by saying, look what I did, and then they reinstated it. So that would be the first thing that I would say really to do.

Ralph: Very cool. All right. A really good question here. Job to freedom. Hey, appreciate you guys.

Ralph: So with this L one L two L three meta strategy, could you use the exact same strategy, but just with YouTube

John: ads? Yeah. So the L one, two, and three kind of has pushed off into now feeder strategy, which is actually more of like L zero, which is what we’re kind of calling it a little bit, which is like the traffic campaign.

John: And then you have an L one, which is your prospecting campaign and then an L three. So it’s a little bit different, but about the same. Yes, you can with YouTube ads. Here’s the bad part though. Is only one of your campaigns really has. to be conversion based. So your L one is going to be CPV based. And then L two is going to be reengaging those on a CPM or [00:40:00] CPV basis as well.

John: The L three is going to be a remarketing campaign to everybody that’s visited those pages and seen those videos as ads. And that’s going to be a conversion campaign. So you can. Use the same exact strategy on YouTube ads, but your bidding strategies have to be different. Otherwise, if you do three YouTube, campaigns that are all using a conversion based bidding, whatever has ad spend that day, we’ll just scoop up those conversions.

John: And it’s like, it doesn’t really funnel. It doesn’t work. Do we have a case study for that? We do in a different in a different mastermind, actually, I’m no longer a part of so we’re having some people shipped over to another mastermind. So I should be able to reconnect with that person. But we had a person that I was working with that he is actually running that and we were kind of going through updates on it.

Ralph: Got it. Super good question though. all right. Now, Rashid, when optimizing ads in YouTube, you look at percentage served, correct? If there’s any minimum benchmark for percentage serve, like if you have three ads, two at 45%, that would be turned off,

John: et cetera. Great question. So here’s [00:41:00] what you want to look at is this actually is a big issue that people, they, they miss a lot.

John: I’m going to do like 365 days until yesterday. Let me just get this all pumped up here as all right. You

Ralph: have a shout out for John Moran’s disciple guys. Get preferential treatment. What are we looking for before John Moran’s voice box? Kidney.

John: So we can see, okay. Percentage served. So here’s, what’s interesting is when you look at percentage served, you will have like the parental rule.

John: He got 45, got 17. And then you have like seven, three, all these things down to basically zero. So these are like the two ads that are really doing the majority of the conversions. Now, what you’re also going to see is that sometimes the conversions or even the conversion rate is different than the top line.

John: Right now we can see 939 and But it’s 45 and 17. So this is actually looking like it’s way [00:42:00] better. 47. This one goes way down to 77. Here’s what you don’t want to do, though, is let’s just say, for example, and I’m using the last year’s worth of data. So this thing’s been, this thing’s been ran a lot, and I tried to beat it.

John: That’s why there’s a large discrepancy here between them, because I pause it or has between these things. But what you don’t want to say is, okay, that one’s bad. That one’s good. That one has way more. That one has way less. What do you want to look at is actually this over here. The views and the impressions because YouTube actually builds a small sequence.

John: So if you were to say are these 20 million people and these 8 million people overlapping? Absolutely. How about the 3 million and 1 million? Not as much because obviously the percentage serve is way low So these two are your main ads and lo and behold if you shut this ad off That’s going to start to go up.

John: So it means if you shut off the ad that has lower impressions, lower quality, your first ad is actually going to perform worse with the cost per conversion that started to increase. Google does a YouTube sequencing. What they identify is Ralph needs to see that video. Then that video, [00:43:00] John needs to see that video twice, then that video.

John: So they kind of see what videos need to be shown first and second, third and fourth, even if it’s the same video in order for them to repeat that sequence when people buy, so they built a little mini funnel and sequencing, but if you come in and say, haha, I’m going to take half that away, It just falls over.

John: You can’t just remove one of the legs. So don’t look at it as just pure results. Look at it also by engagement and know that there’s going to be overlap, but percentage served will keep the main ones that are overlapping each other. Well funded. They just may look a little bit different in conversions.

Ralph: Okay. And the percentage served once again for the first and the second ad in that case were what versus the third and the fourth, there were a large discrepancy between them. It was 45 and 17 and seven, seven. Okay. So Google figured this out, how long did it take to sort of start to figure that sequencing out?

John: You mean how long does it take to optimize or when did I learn it?

Ralph: Yeah, no, no, no, like when you start, like, let’s say you started, I have to assume you started probably four or five videos at the same time. [00:44:00] Maybe. Yeah, usually within a week, it’ll pick two to five. It’ll start to kind of figure it out. So it’s like once you figure out that sequence that they automatically superimpose on your videos, it might take a couple of weeks up for a few

John: months.

John: Yep. Now, check this out. Okay. 365 days, 45 and 17. This would be something. Oh, let’s kill it because this is the main video. Now watch this. What happened last week with the same videos or the other videos? Now it’s 41 and 28. It shows different videos. Yeah, interesting. So I always just give it 15 videos and they’ll just kind of pick and choose and recycle what things is working because I have years worth of data on all these videos.

John: So I’m not going to pause them. I’ll just like Google pick and decide which ones work well because I’m not Google. I’ll give them the tools as to which to succeed, but I won’t tell it how to succeed. That’s awesome. I love it.

Ralph: Mattias, greetings from Brazil. Good to see you. All right. Greetings from here.

Ralph: We’re popular in Brazil. I like that. Right. John, that’s right. Uh, if any commerce client has a [00:45:00] limited budget and doesn’t want to scale, would you TRO S standard shopping in this scenario?

John: Well, it depends. Is there any sort of omni channel or is it just like Google ads? If it’s a limited budget, it doesn’t want to scale.

John: I would actually honestly just run feed only P max honestly. only because that is also going to keep you the highest amount of Positions available. And if you’re omni channel, you don’t have the overlap of, meta campaigns that are going to skew your results. It is pretty much singularly you, you will do all of your standard shopping and dynamic marketing all in one feed only PMAX campaign.

John: And your CPCs and PMAX even on standard shopping about half the price of an actual standard shopping campaign. So if you’re only running one channel, just run a feed only PMAX. If you are running omni channel, then that’s a way longer conversation. Don’t go run PMAX. It would be more of like a low TRO eyes, but then you got to figure out if you’re going to get only the first click, who’s doing the remarketing.

John: And now you got a whole omni channel strategy. You got to develop, uh, we

Ralph: are getting

John: backed up with questions here.

Ralph: I know a little bit. I’m like, [00:46:00] Oh my God, there were so many. so we’re going to try and rapid fire. These as quickly as possible. Do you want to read them or you want me to read them or I’ll read them aloud.

Ralph: And yeah, Yeah, whoops. We both clicked on the task.

John: All right, John, in your shopping strategy, use two main campaigns, the conversion catch all and a traffic 30 best skews both share best sellers of 60 percent to row as why same product to Rose you. Okay. So this one seems like it’s more like the dog pile strategy.

John: And that one is actually so that I don’t limit the best selling performance by choosing an arbitrary budget. That’s too low. And if it was, have still gone through and made more sales than my sales would actually make more additional sales, which is my signal to then go increase my first campaign. So that dog pile feeds its way back up.

John: It’s like, Hey, here’s a thousand bucks in 200. Did I spend a thousand and 200 on these products? Yes. Okay. Well then here’s 1200 and 200. Did it still work? So this basically tells me how much I can scale on this one without missing sales and with that, with being the first one to say, Hey, there’s no, none left over for this campaign.

John: You’ve reached aces before I kill her. [00:47:00] Uh,

Ralph: next. Oh God, I’m going to stop touching things. Like when I’m on the runway, like, yeah, I’m here today. I’m like not on an airplane. It’s great. I’m really sitting

John: on my hands right now. So I don’t do it anymore. I’ll click you talk. How cool. For a new Google account, is it worth using expanded inventory for the first 15 days and switching standard or would you use a standard inventory for the start?

John: I always use standard inventory. I don’t know why I like the expanded inventory is cool, but I found that there’s a little bit too much inconsistency with it. Unless it’s remarketing, remarketing, expanded inventory all the time. for non brand, I like to use standard. If standard taps out, you can use the expanded inventory, but because it’s usually shopping and more individual campaigns that I’m running on, I always just use standard.

Ralph: this is no John Moran sandwiches here eating

John: when I was away. Was that part of it? No, actually not. I don’t remember. I’m a fat kid at heart. So I might’ve been. So who knows? [00:48:00] I even have

Ralph: some soup right here. John Moran soup is going to be the next avatar. I think we answer questions. All right. He’s

John: got a question.

John: Cool job. What’s more efficient for sales and acquisition? A one to three on YouTube campaigns or demand you optimize to mimic YouTube campaigns. So. I don’t like demand gen yet. I think that their introduction of GSP was a massive failure because you still get charged a CPC where a person opens the Gmail ad and never actually makes it to your site.

John: So if you’re checking cold traffic campaigns, launching demand gen is just like, ha ha, you get clicks, but no traffic now, what sucker. And so it becomes a little bit of a, of an issue. So I would say that L one through three YouTube campaigns are still. My go to until I’m forced to use demand gen. And then when that happens, stay tuned.

John: Cause we’re working on a whole bunch of strategies in the lab right now that basically mimicking what the L one, two, and three is on YouTube by purposely limiting the demand gen assets inside of those to force them into the channels that we want it to go to.

Ralph: Sounds good.

John: Navrash is like, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey, Hey.

John: So now that YouTube is moving to demand, Jen, is there anything we [00:49:00] need to know for businesses who run purely cold in stream YouTube? Yeah. So my opinion, wait for them to push it on you. Honestly. Remember what happened when standard shopping turned into smart shopping? I’m sorry. When smart shopping turned into PMAX, they developed feed only for you, which was the best thing because when Google had shit inventory, it just tanks.

John: So my go to plan initially is just letting YouTube be pushed into demand gen and hope that they don’t add in other assets so I can keep those evergreen campaigns and then try to build off of it from there, Bob Lee. PPC has a question, John, how do you view priorities and shopping campaigns?

John: So I actually don’t use priorities. It’s a very controversial thing. I actually like high priority all the time. I want maximize CPC, maximize placements and maximize priority because Google remember is now not. Based on necessarily keyword. They’re based on, should I show an ad to Bob when Bob is ready to buy?

John: I don’t get to decide when Bob is ready to buy. So I don’t know what priority to use. It’s not based on search terms anymore. Google is now matching warm traffic inside of their standard shopping, [00:50:00] non brand campaigns to people who are ready most often to purchase at the time that they, that Google thinks are going to be purchasing.

John: I know we have limited time left, but this is a really, really, really important topic because this is going to update everyone’s pedigree information about the ads ecosystem and how they work. So for an example in data suite, this is what everyone has to really, really, really, really, really understand.

John: Cause most people, I believe this is the most really you’ll ever really, really. So when you’re looking at the non brand standard shopping campaigns or even non brand search, all of these are all basically non brand except for like this branded one here, for example, this just as a quick example, look at the cold traffic.

John: 15, 26. We don’t have a standard shopping campaign or a search campaign that has more than 40 percent cold traffic. What that means is that standard shopping is targeting warm traffic on purpose. That’s how they predict their row as their CPA. That’s the second part of it when you’re using this kind of thing when you’re using a priority, though, it’s like, what step in the journey [00:51:00] are they going to search? And you have to know that before that happens. So you can choose a priority of that person in that point of their journey. It’s too much for me to it’s impossible to do.

John: So if I keep it on high priority and then just go old school strategies on native keywords seems to scale 10 X way faster than priorities will.

Ralph: Super interesting. Romina is here to just hear about data suites. So hopefully she’s a satisfied customer here. Appreciate that. Uh, John

John: Moran’s dog has a question.

John: Hey, what are the three most important metrics for e commerce and running Google ads and meta, if you can choose only three and Mur. LTV, NCAC, the new, so NMR is all the money spent on all campaigns divided by the revenue from new customers. NCAC, all money spent on all campaigns divided by only amount of new customers, not the value, but the amount of customers and then LTV, it allows you to identify if I were to spend X amount on getting a new customer, what will that make me over three, six, nine, 12 months, two years, then you set those targets.

Ralph: That was not a plant question, by the way. John, John Moran’s dog is not [00:52:00] a paid sponsor of this show.

John: Uh, thanks Terry. I’ll pay you

Ralph: later. Yeah. Alan J is, is his name Terry? Actually, I don’t know. Uh, Alan J jr. That’s a question.

John: In meta L0 strategy for top performing creatives, you duplicate them 10 to 15 times, increase budgets from pause non performers.

John: Do you just rename the campaign L0 to L1 and create L2 based on it? Not really. So the new L1 strategy is actually when we’re doing top performing creatives, we simply just kind of keep recloning them and then just updating the date. They don’t actually move into a different strategy. They just get recloned when we’re doing testing.

John: So It’s easier for us to manage when we’re, what did we try? And what are we not by simply just cloning the campaigns? So L0 never moves into L2 are completely different strategies to build off of what L0 is bringing in. Hmm. Yeah. another good question here from Ginger. What’s your favorite cold YouTube ad strategy?

John: so I actually love sequencing. YouTube [00:53:00] sequencing is the best thing since sliced bread and no one really knows or uses it because everyone measures by row as, so when you’re looking at a sequencing campaign, those campaigns can be very, very, very lucrative because you can actually find the point of diminishing returns from an audience who is no longer interested in hearing what you have to say so that you can actually contribute to, uh, a more productive Of a beneficial result.

John: And what I mean by that is here. Let me pull this up. let’s see real quick. Is that audience fatigue? Are you talking about? There is no ad fatigue. Yes, it’s purely trying to find audience fatigue. So I’m trying to update dates and I forgot the dates that there were.

John: Actually, you’ll just, I’ll share screen. You’ll kind of see this. This will be fun. All right, so let’s do this one. So this is an ad sequence here. This ad sequence basically will tell me what the user journey is going to do. So I force you to four videos. If you watch this video, if you view it, you look at the second video.

John: If you view that video, you move to the third. If you view that video, you go to the fourth. What happens if you skip the first video? Or let’s say you watch the first video, watch the second, and [00:54:00] skip the third. So I have skips where I have to push you through the funnel anyway, which is nice because you have to see all four ads no matter which way you go.

John: This is what’s cool. If you view this video and then skip number two, I still send you to the number two that you are number three, that you have to, you skipped off a number two. And then if I just impress you with that video, then you see number four. So if you skip it, I still force you to watch it because my triggers, did I impress you with it?

John: Or are you impressed by that video? So the nice part about that is what’s done. Impress is after the skip ad goes off, correct? So, or no, like I’m going fast as I know we’re limited in time, but, What this means is that if you watch this video, my step transition is a view. I can say transition to the next sequence off of a skip, a view or an impression.

John: So if you watch this, if you watch all four, you’re actually in a different area. If you skip two, I can see this. I’ll show you what I mean by the results, though, is I can see that if you see at number one, you have a 32 percent or 0. 32. Click the rate. Watch this. [00:55:00] Watch when you skipped one and watch to click.

John: The rate went up.

John: So I showed you an ad, you’re like, I don’t like you. I was like, all right, well, what about this one? You’re like, Oh, I like that one better. You’ll see that after you watch at number one, or if you skip one and watch two, or if you skip one, watch, watch two and watch three. Or if you skip one, watch two, watch three, watch four, or you just watch number two.

John: But the farther we go down the sequence, you see the 0.3 0.5 or, or 0.3 2.35, 0.3, 1.32. Then it goes down into 0.29, 0.2 9.3 1.24, 0.25. After about four ads, I pretty much, I’ve fatigued the audience. Good, but I’m still, I’m still sending you through everything else. But this one here, I can tell a story on CPM with $10 CPMs.

John: Again, I could give a shit about conversions. It’s a TV commercial. There is no click through rate or there is no ROAS on a Super Bowl commercial. That’s what we’re doing here. We’re telling a story. We’re building a brand. So that’s why I like those things for cold traffic. Love it. Okay.

Ralph: all right, quickly here.

Ralph: I know we’re right up against it. Mateus, there’s another

John: question. All right. I’m going [00:56:00] to have her. How many days should we move creators from L0 to L1? Again, those are different strategies. The L0, the differences between L1, L0, L1, L2, L3, and even L4 winback, all are different audiences. They’re all different.

John: They’re the same creative, different audiences. So what’s nice is you can move an L0 to an L1, but what you’re doing is saying, I want to show the people that are getting feeder strategy as an example, those videos, and then I want to show it to them again. You don’t have to, there’s no SOP to move that.

John: You just have to have a wide variety of decent creatives, because Meta is going to choose anyway which one works, because unless you’re using ABO, which I wouldn’t recommend in this type of ecosystem today, but you’ll have your video creative or ad imagery that’s working, and then as they go from L0, which is your brand new cold traffic, then L1 is going to try to convert them.

John: So yeah, cold traffic that’s warming up. Then you have warm traffic trying to trying to convert and then L3 for remarketing. So it’s not about really creative. It’s about funneling the users through that path. Makes sense.

Ralph: in dirt deep, I [00:57:00] guess. Great question.

John: Hi, John. I’ve realized a pattern when I work on new account, which doesn’t have conversion tracking right as very low CPCs.

John: And as soon as we fix it increases. Why is that? Because Google is Backfilling what they know you are willing to pay for those clicks based off of what goals you set. And I leveraged that. You want a low TROAS and you want a low, you know, you want a high Google’s like, if I only need to make 10 cents of my money back, here’s a 6 bid.

John: I’m like, good. I want to be number one anyway. Like that’s the purpose of it. So as soon as it sees that conversions are coming in, Google’s like, oh, you’re going to want to, we’re going to want more conversions. What’s your goal? 200%. Well, I’m getting 400 percent now. Shit, I got to charge you twice as much per click and it’ll back down to your 200 percent tROAS goal.

John: Your tROAS goal is only applicable to how much you’re willing to bid. When Google sees you getting conversions, they will charge you more. That’s why we kill conversion tracking in some accounts to keep our CPCs low at scale. Yeah, makes sense.

John: Uh, cool. Yeah. Yes, it is. we confirmed that it is GDPR compliant. , now I am not an attorney, so consult your attorney, [00:58:00] accordingly, but know, from everything that we know I’ve been told and can see, yes, just don’t sue me if I’m wrong.

John: everything we can find out right now is good. But again, we are not attorneys.

Ralph: Yeah, we are not attorneys. That would be a very good avatar for you too, by the way. John Moran’s attorney. God knows we spend enough money on that

John: uh, mike has a question. Hey, john, can you break down the feeder strategy?

John: What’s the t row s for pmax? Do you pick and in the audience on pmax have seen some people use standard shopping masks? Yes So for feeder strategy, you want a standard shopping and you want a performance max Feed only with overlapping products 100 overlap

Ralph: So the feeder strategy for standard shopping performance specs. Standard shopping, you want a low TROAS, 40 to 60%. For your PMAX feed only, you want a high one, 250 to 500%, just depending upon when it can spend. You want those two far apart. High TROAS and performance max forces your PLAs into display and means your dynamic remarketing on YouTube, GSP, Discover, Display.

John: You want that to be remarketing with your PLAs. Your standard shopping needs a low T ROAS to get a high bid to stick itself into the shopping network. [00:59:00] So your T ROAS is forcing the dictation as to performance max. You don’t go into shopping, shopping, you get aggressive in shopping. So then you have basically a smart or not smart.

John: You have a aggressive direct response inbound and a smart remarketing campaign, those two combined.

Ralph: All right, now I got to go. Unfortunately, we do not have time for all the other questions. Thank you so much, John. And we’ve like 40 questions. I’m so sorry, everybody. I know there’s like 30 questions. If you didn’t even answer, but.

Ralph: Make sure to show up next week, two 30 Friday, me and John, your next year 11 live. Thanks everybody for showing up here today. We’ll see you next week. Thanks everyone. Hope you enjoyed this week’s show. We will be rebroadcasting periodically these tier 11 lives, but you don’t necessarily have to wait for us to rebroadcast them out. We’re really only pulling out the ones that I think are the most relevant to you. The marketing professional director of marketing and the CEO.

Ralph: Uh, or if you’re doing this stuff day in and day out. we do do the tier 11 lives every Friday, 2 30 PM Eastern. So make sure that you do subscribe to that channel. That’s [01:00:00] over at tier11. com forward slash YouTube. Of course, subscribe to our YouTube channel here at professional traffic. com forward slash YouTube.

Ralph: You knew that already. We did leave all the links. We mentioned inside the show notes at perpetual traffic. com. There’s a couple of links in there for some of the advertising terms that John mentions that you might need some clarification on. There’s not really many resources with that, as well as some links over to Amazon and how to spend less and make more on Amazon, which was the subject of today’s show.

Ralph: So, uh, podcasts, we would certainly appreciate you leaving a comment or a review. We love those reviews as well as rating to help us reach a wider audience. And as always really appreciate you listening to the show weekend and week out. So on behalf of my awesome cohost, Lauren E. Petrulo, until next week, see ya. [01:01:00]

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