In this episode of Perpetual Traffic, Ralph Burns sits down with Cameron Campbell, a top-tier media buyer at Tier 11, and possibly the only person who can outshine John Moran’s meta expertise—at least in the looks department. Cameron brings the heat, diving deep into why most brands are flying blind with their ad data, and what they should actually be tracking to scale profitably without burning cash.
He breaks down the real numbers that matter, including NCAC (New Customer Acquisition Cost) and why relying on in-platform ROAS is basically trusting a magic 8-ball to run your business. Cameron also pulls back the curtain on Tier 11’s Data Suite vs. Meta’s Conversions API (CAPI), showing just how much revenue brands are leaving on the table when they don’t have full visibility into their customer journey. Plus, he shares his step-by-step approach to creative testing, scaling without panic, and avoiding the biggest mistakes eComm brands make.
If you’re running paid media and want to know the difference between profitable scaling and expensive guessing, this is the episode for you. Grab your notepad—this one’s packed.
Chapters:
- 00:00:03 – Introduction to Perpetual Traffic Podcast
- 00:00:57 – Importance of Tier 11 Live Sessions
- 00:02:14 – Meet Cameron Campbell: Media Buying Expert
- 00:02:39 – Understanding Meta Ads and Data Strategies
- 00:05:23 – Technical Insights: CAPI vs. Data Suite
- 00:08:07 – Challenges in Data Accuracy and Optimization
- 00:24:49 – Tier 11 Data Suite: A Comprehensive Solution
- 00:32:19 – The Problem with ROAS
- 00:33:08 – Exploring Meta Ad Account Data
- 00:35:41 – The Importance of Accurate Data
- 00:37:12 – New Customer Acquisition Metrics
- 00:39:47 – Practical Application and Case Study
- 00:45:58 – Q&A Session
- 00:59:22 – Concluding Remarks and Next Steps
LINKS AND RESOURCES:
- Tier 11
- Mongoose Media
- Tier 11 Jobs
- Perpetual Traffic
- Marketing Performance Indicators™ Checklist
- Perpetual Traffic on YouTube
- Tier 11 on YouTube
- Connect with Lauren on Instagram
- Connect with Ralph on LinkedIn
- Follow Perpetual Traffic on Twitter
Thanks so much for joining us this week. Want to subscribe to Perpetual Traffic? Have some feedback you’d like to share? Connect with us on iTunes and leave us a review!
Mentioned in this episode:
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Read the Transcript Below:
PT Cameron Live from 02.14
Ralph: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Perpetual Traffic Podcast. This is your host, Ralph Burns. I’m the founder and CEO of Tier 11.
And today’s show is a very important show. It’s from one of our Tier 11 lives we did last week. And if you don’t watch those or you don’t tune into those, make sure that you do head over to tier11. com forward slash YouTube. Make sure that you follow us over there. I think that automatically gets you to follow tier 11, which is something that you should be doing.
And we do a live every Friday with Q and A at the end. And this is one that we’ve never done before, because most of them are very John Moran centric, very Google centric, although he’s become quite the meta media buyer and has taught all our media buyers a lot of his tricks, especially the feeder strategy.
He’s now got two other strategies that he’s deploying some of our clients, which are getting And amazing results. I was actually listing, you know, a call with him today where they’re doing all this stuff and getting the best results they’ve ever gotten for their meta ads. [00:01:00] The point is, is he is a very good media buyer, very good strategist, understands business extremely well.
However, there are other people within our organization that are just about as good as he is. I hate to say it, like he’s good, but we’ve got some amazing people that are working here. And as a result of that, obviously I’m biased, but pulling them in to talk to you and to be on this show is a huge advantage to you.
So you should set. The bar a bit higher when it comes to your media buyers, your strategists within your department, within your own agency, and learn from this guy who is going to talk about meta ads today, as well as some technical stuff that I don’t think we’ve ever really talked about when it comes to tier 11 data suite and versus his.
Cappy versus normal integrations versus third party applications. So there is a fair amount of technical part to this, which is super important. If you want to get the data that you need in order to make the types of [00:02:00] decisions you need to make with every dollar hanging in the balance right now, for you to ultimately grow, scale your business and achieve your vision.
So today’s show it’s with one of our. Best media buyers at tier 11, Cameron Campbell, it’s his second time over at tier 11 live. The first time was with John. This time he’s with me and we’re going to get into exactly how he deciphers data, what tools he uses. Yes, he does use tier 11 data suite, but he also compares it and contrasts it with CAPI, which a lot of you have done.
We did this way back when in 2021, we converted all of our clients over to CAPI, which if you don’t know what that is, it’s conversions API through meta. And it was a great solution at that point in time, but it still leaves a lot to chance. And we actually go through in a screen share and compare conversions API versus data suite, and you’ll see the differences are quite remarkable.
And even if it isn’t just, maybe a 10 or 20 percent difference in some accounts, in this particular case, it’s 30%. [00:03:00] Or more where we’re getting visibility on actions that customers are taking or would be customers are taking for our clients So we can make better decisions Allocate the money in the right way spend in the right way and ultimately scale and grow and that’s the reason probably why you’re listening to this show Is to help your department or your business do just that.
So without further ado, let’s get into this week’s show with myself and Cameron Campbell from tier 11. Take it away, boys.
And we are live welcome to tier 11 live here on Fridays and alongside me here today is not John Moran. But a younger, better looking meta, expert that John ran is not, Cameron Campbell was on last week, with John. And today we’re going to be getting into some, pretty interesting stuff. I know a lot of the questions that we’ve got here are more Google [00:04:00] related.
we’ll get to those as much as we possibly can, but, Yeah. Excited to have you on today. Your second tier 11 live two weeks in a row now, Cameron, welcome back.
Cameron: on a street. Yeah, it’s funny because I noticed last time I looked very tanned and basically my camera has one of these like beauty features on because I reset the settings. So I must have looked like a, Ken doll or something.
Ralph: Yeah. you were looking particularly handsome. I saw the
replay.
Cameron: but unfortunately it was AI. It wasn’t reality. I’m afraid.
Ralph: That’s all right.
Cameron: So if anyone’s watching for Valentine’s Day, guy’s gone. He was
Ralph: gone. That was last week. This week is the real Cameron. Well, I’m like washed out white guy here. I like this new camera that I have that doesn’t have any beauty settings. So you got me just the way that I am here today. sometimes John, we sort of joke with him because he’s has get like the black background.
And then if he wears a black shirt, his head, he looks like the floating ghost, like Casper, the friendly ghost kind of in the screen. So at least we’re colorized, at least we’re not like black and white, like he is
Cameron: For me, John’s is [00:05:00] bohemian rhapsody. It’s the album. The video. If you look at the music video, that’s exactly what he’s doing.
Ralph: That is totally it. That’s it. Yeah. With the under lighting, need that
effect. So, all right, well, cool. Well, today we’re going to talk a little bit about some technical stuff, and then we’re going to get into, something that. Has been very impressive to me. And I know you have made a study of understanding a lot of the MPIs, a lot of the marketing performance indicators, from a meta standpoint, primarily, not necessarily Google, you have an understanding of it over on there as well, but it’s just a generalized understanding of what these things are.
And just as a step backwards, in case if you don’t have them yet. Just download the spreadsheet, just download the checklist so you can get on the same page with us here. It’s over at tier11. com forward slash MPI. That’s for tier11. com forward slash MPI. We talk about it on perpetual traffic all the time.
The MPIs or marketing performance metrics or what we call them are just a means to achieve an end for a client. And when clients come [00:06:00] to us, as Cameron has done many times inside share 11, and you also have your own eCommerce business. So you are a business owner too, which is very cool. It’s like, these are just metrics we use in order to achieve a business outcome.
And that business outcome is whatever the goal is, the big goal, Is like, we have a client, you have a client that you’re working on. They want 12 million in revenue this year. I don’t know if they have a profitability goal, but that’s like their big goal. So then from that goal, we begin with the end in mind and then figure out, okay, how do we get there?
Is it new customer acquisition? Is it, getting customers to buy more when they buy, meaning increase their average order value, get them to buy more often, maybe increasing LTV. those are basically the three ways in which you can grow a business. And so the combination of those three are through the MPs.
The MPs are just a means to measure How to get to the big goal. Does that make sense? Does that resonate with you? And is that something that you have conversations with [00:07:00] clients about?
Cameron: yeah, exactly. And it is one of those things that, it’s new to everyone. It’s still a a challenge. The industry has been focused on in platform metrics for so long now, and even just front end metrics. So people are coming on to nkac and stuff now, but it’s still an education. And that’s part of some of the conversations I’ve had this week with Clients that we’ve been, doing this for some time now, but you can see that they still don’t fully understand it. They know it’s good, but they don’t understand fully that that full suite of things are acting on the business, and that’s what we’re trying to do more. Just make sure that you’re concrete.
They understand exactly. Well, why NCAT target? This is why it’s good. And this is why, when we scale aggressively, http: TheBusinessProfessor. com Sometimes some of your other metrics are going to come down, but it always comes back to those MP eyes. And, that’s really what we’re trying to do and just help them understand because we know it’s good, but it’s just making sure that they know it’s good and they can present to their superiors as well.
Why we’re doing things the way we’re doing it. Basically.
Ralph: And, you know, if you are an agency and [00:08:00] you’re listening to this, or you do this for a living and you either do it for your own business, this is a new way of looking at how to market, and we found that. Yeah, the in that metrics used to be the real judge and jury, like the source of truth years ago, that is no longer the case, because there are a lot of things that now block that from being the source of truth, which we’ll get into here in just a second.
So. You need a data solution in order to be able to read the tea leaves to get the right metrics to move the business in the right way. Otherwise, if you’re just using Google analytics, or if you’re just using cappy when we’ll talk about that here today, that data might not be as pure as it possibly could be.
And that’s really at the heart of this. Like, there’s a high goal of the business. There’s the MP eyes. And then once you establish those MP eyes, how do you what do you actually do? And the data tells you what to do. So it’s almost like those three levels that you sort of have to understand the pure the data is the [00:09:00] more accurate the data is the less model the data is more the less AI algorithm we don’t really know like Google Analytics kind of does and like a lot of the third party attribution software is to the less your ability is to be able to hit the MPIs and ultimately.
Achieve your goal as a business. So it’s sort of that level. it’s amazing to me, Cameron, I I’ve had, I think three calls this week with would be prospects for tier 11, where we’re going through this. And amazing. There was one yesterday. These guys, like I love the business that they’re in, it’s a 7 million business.
They don’t know how much they can pay to acquire a customer. They have no idea. So like a lot of businesses, this is a new thing because you used to say, well, I’m going to hire an agency. I just hire an agency and they’ll figure it out. Well, no, this is actually a two way street. You really do need to. And I know you’ve had challenges with this.
I know some of the people that are listening today or watching today have [00:10:00] had challenges with this. Some clients just don’t want to change. sometimes it’s, it’s really hard, whether it’s because of privacy issues, because maybe they don’t trust you. Maybe they just don’t get it quite yet. And this is a shift in mindset more than anything else, as opposed to less, just coming down from the mountain and saying, this is the way that it needs to be.
We’re trying to educate the world that this is actually how you move the business forward. And the example of this week. John, myself and TJ, who’s our VP of sales will probably come on tier 11 live at some point in time if we just started running traffic to this group without an NCAT call, we would have helped them go out of business faster.
Cameron: So common.
Ralph: It’s so common and that’s terrible. Like you don’t want that as an agency and 1 to 3 months, they would have been gone. I was talking to John about just this morning, actually texting back and forth. if we started without doing this analysis, they’d be gone. And probably we might actually bankrupt them if we did what they told us to do.
And I think that’s a new way of looking at things [00:11:00] now.
Cameron: think you can get very big based on luck. So like the example you’re talking about, you know, 7 million in revenue. Yeah. If you have a good product or you’re in like a good period where the market’s just hot, you can quite, you can get quite big without knowing these numbers.
And I think that’s why it’s been so common, especially in the big booming years for e commerce. Especially at the start of COVID, everyone really grew businesses. They didn’t have this stuff dialed down and then they’re now either going down the way, like you’re saying, going out of business because they’re scaling or they’re stuck and they can’t scale and they don’t know why.
And it’s because they’re not looking at these MPIs and seeing what actually maybe the business is looking good. You’re just looking at the wrong thing because you’ve got a problem with retention or repeat customers or something. It’s not actually your acquisition. That might be perfect.
Ralph: Yeah. even though, I mean, there was a huge boom in, in commerce, obviously in 2021 and a lot of those businesses cease to exist in 2022 so it’s now it’s a harder place to be you’ve got a great product you can skate by you’re absolutely right and this client [00:12:00] specifically great organic great you know amazon sales probably spending too much money on the amazon side has never really applied paid traffic in the right way.
And just wanted a next level of scale. And that’s why they came to us. So we’re sort of slowing down the whole process, trying to figure it out, getting to a point where like, all right, let’s figure out what an NCAC is, and then ultimately get you to your goals. So, before we get into some of the stuff that you want to talk about, I know there’s a, point of clarification that we want to make sure that we’re clear on, and we’ve gotten some questions on this in previous tier 11 lives.
We’re getting a lot on our socials right now, which is. We’ve talked about tier 11 data suite. You’re obviously super familiar with it. You understand how the whole thing works. One of the biggest questions that we seem to be getting these days, and we were proponents of this as well, which I think is a good thing to do no matter what is conversions.
Installing conversions API are happy. What is the difference between happy and happy? Tier 11 data suite, [00:13:00] how do they differ? How are they similar? What’s your perception of it? What’s your take on it?
Cameron: Yeah, so I’m basically going to share screen and talk you through this. So bear with me to make sure
Ralph: I love, I love sharing
Cameron: Right. Let’s see. Share screen.
Ralph: John, I say, you know, I love it. It’s like show and tell on Friday. It’s great. Now it’s with Cameron. You’re still tan though. You’re like naturally tan, I think. Yeah,
Cameron: their summer. That’s, that’s part of it, but yeah, no, I’m not, perfect beauty time. I’m just.
Ralph: you’re pretty
tan.
Uh,
Cameron: to real
time. So you should be saying you should be seeing lucid chart. You should be seeing Cappy on screen. Is that correct?
Are we having some technical issues? Okay,
perfect. So what I’m going to do is I’m going to talk through conversions API Cappy or it’s known as well first, then I’m going to talk through the data suite and then I’ll show you a little thing I’ve put together overlaying Cappy onto the drawing that you presented the other week [00:14:00] for
These graphs aren’t obviously made exactly. It’s not perfect because it’s different sources. So some of the things might seem different. I’ll talk you through it and make sure you understand. Try to ignore some certain things in the illustrations because they’re not. They’re not exactly correct. How the sort of relationships work, but we’ll work with it anyway.
Okay, so conversions API. The thing that we told everyone to install to enrich their data basically is a way of getting around. App blockers and browser blockers, things that are basically removing your data from coming back to the ad platform, specifically meta for conversions API. So what’s basically going to happen in the environment of conversions API is someone’s going to click on one of the ads, and they’re going to have a click ID and their URL from meta the FB clit.
So they’re then going to move to your website. Okay. What was happening before when iOS [00:15:00] 14 came into play was that click ID was being removed by the browser and. Meta was losing any awareness of who that person was. Okay, so they’ve clicked on an ad and they’ve basically just gone into no man’s land.
There’s no way now to tie them back to your ad. So what they did is they brought in to play conversions API. And what that would do is you’re still losing that click ID, but the server that your website is hosted on is able to look at what the people are doing on the website. And via the API, which is this.
Session here. Feed that first party data. So names, email addresses from the website, back to the ad platforms. And then what matter would do is they would look at the names they have for people, the contact information they have for people, the email addresses, the first party data, they would hash the data coming through the API, match it up.
And they would try to basically match people that were coming from your API. To the people that had clicked on your original ad or viewed fruit on your original ad. [00:16:00] Okay, and was partially right. It was better than having no data, but you’re losing a lot of data because the server has no idea who these people are.
It’s just relying on the names and email addresses. That it’s passing back to matter and anyone who signs up to an account knows you might have multiple different email addresses. You might have different names that you’re using for your actual, your account, your credit card, whatever, they’re not going to tie up perfectly.
So there’s a lot of data lost in this situation. Okay, so it’s essentially that it’s basically passing first party data to the app platforms. and then method is this thing where it tries to match people up. That’s. In a nutshell, what conversion A P I is doing. Is there anything else you’d like to add, Ralph?
Or is that good enough?
Ralph: So the question then becomes, and where is like, just at a base level is first party data. By capturing it on your own, like we use Google Tag Manager when we did this, obviously, but first party data is being captured [00:17:00] by your website. So therefore, it’s yours. So therefore, that is the reason why this whole thing works.
And you’re passing it back to the ad platform as a first party data. Maybe you can explain the difference between first party and third party, because I think that’s where people, a lot of people get tripped up.
Cameron: Okay. Yeah. So first party data, of course, is the data that’s coming directly from you. Like you said, is the website. Third party data is coming via the pixel. So it’s the it’s not your data. It’s something sitting on your website that’s passing that back to the dad platforms essentially. So it’s you. You own this data is people actually buying from you, giving you the email address and things.
the other version, I guess it’s like watching what’s happening rather than being the actual. first party data.
Ralph: So you’re using the pixel. In this case, the pixel then becomes the third party in this whole thing. And the reason how, why API, that why Cappi works through the API is because you [00:18:00] are the first party data that you, you actually own it provided that you have a privacy policy on your page.
You can do all this, you stay, you know, above board with all the privacy restrictions that are not only in the United States but internationally. So there is that whole thing. When then the data comes back, one of the things that we would always sort of check was the score inside. Meta specifically, we’re talking about meta here, just in this specific example is the EMQ score was our indication that we are getting a better match rate on specific events with cappy.
And we did see an increase in that efficiency. Can you talk to that and what that really means for you on a day to day basis managing ads inside the platform itself?
Cameron: Yeah. Well, I mean, a better EMQ essentially for us is meaning we’re getting better data back in our campaigns. So those campaigns have more data. It’s a machine learning platform. They are better at optimizing. So essentially, we can get better results because the machine is smarter. It’s getting better match [00:19:00] rates from the data coming back.
So conversion to API, no doubt. you’re just using Pixel, it’s a massive step up and Yeah, having it in place was the right thing to do until something new came along.
Ralph: And the other part to this is that, okay, you’re getting better data. Yeah. Then what you were getting blinded to, I remember you were a part of this in 2021, when this whole thing hit in the summer of 2021. And then all of a sudden it was, I mean, it was just a nightmare because.
Cameron: It was terrible.
Ralph: Facebook at that point in time, I believe it was just Facebook.
It wasn’t meta yet. So my memory serves me correctly. Uh, they were caught. this came out of nowhere. They were ill prepared. And Cappy came out of that months later, which did restore some of the data inside the platform. But all of a sudden we were completely flying blind and especially for, I remember for some of our, I wouldn’t even say like higher end, but iPhone users, Apple users tend to be.
higher end buyers. And I remember one at one account in particular, we [00:20:00] lost 60 to 70 percent of our conversions literally overnight
Cameron: Yeah, crazy.
Ralph: and Facebook didn’t have an answer to it. And so Cappy was an outgrowth of that, but There was a long time. It seemed like forever, but it was 3 to 6 months.
I think it took us at least 6 months to maybe even longer to install happy and all of our accounts. And it still was a process because it was clunky and so forth. But all during that time, and even to this day, Facebook and meta in particular still isn’t getting all the data. They’re still modeling a fair amount of data.
Can you speak to that? And like what you think as far as a percentage goes, like how accurate you’re seeing things inside platform, how much is modeled, how much is actual, how much does capi really, enhance things. But then there’s also sort of this whole other, segment of users that are just never going to be captured
Cameron: Yeah, I mean, in terms of actual percentages, don’t really know what it would be. The reality is these days, and I think other people are the same who are using. [00:21:00] 11 data suite is we don’t really look too much at the end platform numbers anymore, because it is just a lot of nonsense. And we have the data so we can look elsewhere.
But, uh, in terms of, yeah, remind me what was the other part of the
question?
Ralph: the model data. How much do you
Cameron: Yeah. Model data. Yeah. So model data is a big problem because if you are looking in platform, basically what method is doing is they’re going, okay, we don’t have. Oversight into what is actually happening on the website. We don’t have the connection anymore.
So we’re just going to try and estimate based on how many people are, clicking away from our ad. How many people are we’re able to them match again later with our hashing from the conversions API. We’re going to estimate like what percentage of those people are. Taking what action. So how many people are adding to car?
How many people are purchasing? And it is just way off. You might have some weeks where, especially if you’re on a smaller brand, you’ll look at it and you’ll be like, Oh, this looks like it is very accurate. And you’ll have other weeks where it’s telling you you’ve had all these sales and you can look at your Shopify dashboard and you’re, getting anything.
So it, it seems like it’s a complete. Guessing game, and it just [00:22:00] doesn’t have any credibility, even when you’re at scale in my experience, and we can show you later on in this when we look at the actual data suite data versus what you’re seeing in platform for meta, there’s a significant difference. And data suite is always going to have lower CPAs because not because it’s a different brand or anything, just because all that model data is going to make your campaigns look worse than they are.
And there’s stuff you could be turning off because you don’t think it’s doing well. But it’s just models data. It’s not real numbers that are actually the performance of that campaign.
Ralph: so I think a lot of folks who installed copy and now those are folks that, you know, data suite is a potential solution here, obviously, which we’re going to get to in just a second here. But I think with cappy. You might fall into, you might have a false sense of security because what you think you’re seeing isn’t actually what you’re seeing.
And then when you compare it to the source of truth, which we did three data suite, we’re always like, why are these numbers so far off? It was exactly like what you’re saying, even with Cappy [00:23:00] installed, you still weren’t getting accurate data because there’s this large portion. I guess it really depends on how many iOS clickers there are and how many ad blockers and how many, Cookie deprecators that are clicking on the point is, is there is a certain portion that Meta and Facebook are just never going to capture no matter what.
And they’re taking a guess at it. And that guest might be wrong, might be right. Or it might be somewhere in between, but you still don’t know with a hundred percent certainty.
Cameron: Yeah. And that’s the big element really, as someone who was doing the media buying, it’s like with Cappy, your, data was, getting better for the platforms to optimize, but you just could not trust anything you were looking at in the platform because, it’s good that the actual platform is learning and we’re going to get better conversions from that.
But if I made human decisions based on something that’s incorrect, I then stop that whole process because I might turn off the thing that was bringing all the conversions and generating that data in the first place. And then you don’t see the effect until a bit later when, you [00:24:00] know, if you are looking at your MPI, you’d see like a drop and you’d have to go turn back on the thing that you turned off.
So enhances the optimizations phase, but it doesn’t do anything for the reporting phase. And
meta.
Ralph: that’s a really good way of saying it. It does enhance optimization to a certain degree. However, for reporting. It’s still highly inaccurate because there is a fair amount of guessing that goes along. All right, so maybe let’s compare and contrast tier 11 data suite here, not to turn this into a tier 11 data suite pitch, but this is a pretty remarkable system that we figured out over the course of the last couple of years to solve this very problem because visibility into the data is everything.
Like I said before, if you are, if your goal is to go from 6 million to 12 million revenue. Okay, it’s a 6 gap. How are you going to get there? How is it all new customer acquisition? Is it higher? AOVs, higher LTVs? How are you going to do it? Chances are probably a new customer acquisition [00:25:00] is a very important part of that, and that’s the reason why NCAC.
Or new customer acquisition cost is such a vital stat, such a vital goal. you as a media buyer, you’re looking at that all the time and measuring against it, benchmarking it. But that data, that number has to be as accurate as possible. And if you’re relying on in app, it might be right. Might not be right.
Might be somewhere in between, but you don’t have a high degree of confidence in that number. does tier 11 data suite potentially solve that problem or at least come close to solving it?
Cameron: Okay, cool. So this is obviously our current explanation of data suite. What I want to just say is don’t get too hung up, like I said before, on the different aspects, the arrows, because when I tried to show you how Kathy compares, it might get confusing. But we’re just going to look at the data path at the moment.
So basically, in this, the purple is the path of the data, and the pink is just symbolizing the actual users journey. [00:26:00] Okay, so it’s not data. That’s something that Caught me before. Okay. So same situation. People are on the ad platforms, whatever app platform, because we’re talking about conversions API, we will look at meta today.
So let’s say someone again, clicks on that ad from meta. There’s going to be an intermediate step. Okay. So they leave the, the, the app platform, they get a first party cookie. Added by that platform, they get the click ID added as before. But what happens is they pass through this thing called the edge, which is hosted on the edge server.
This is a content display network. Okay. Now, what happens here in tier 11 data suite, this doesn’t happen in the other example, this only 11 data suite, is they That signal that is on the person leaving is captured. Okay, so it’s captured here and it’s sent to our data warehouse. So I’m going to come back to that a minute.
What then [00:27:00] happens is that person continues on to your website that is hosted on the origin server, which is the server hosting their website. Okay. But if we follow the pathway of the data, what is happening? So what is happening is. That data is sent to our data warehouse, like I said, and then a couple of things happen.
One, it can speak to the actual e commerce platform. So we’re getting data from their first party as well. And then the second thing is it’s going to send that back once it’s fingerprinted it, matched those people up. It’s going to send that back directly to the ad platforms and you have far richer data.
So what would happen in another situation after this edge step? Is you would then lose the data, so we’re not losing any of the data because we’re doing this before the browser ad blockers take the signals out of the data. Essentially, like happens with conversion API. So we’re getting all the data at this step, and it goes into their warehouse, [00:28:00] all gets matched together and then sent back to the platforms directly.
Ralph: Makes sense. The difference is if we take out the edge and you have that sort of that pink arrow that goes to the origin server and then right after that, that’s it’s then blocked. In essence on the browser itself. And that’s where the problem happens. And Cappy doesn’t solve that problem. And that’s the reason why you can’t really trust a hundred percent. That data, and that’s why this is a solution that makes a whole lot more sense. And there’s a lot of different ways to do this. We’ve got a video. We’ll, we’ll leave for you guys as well. It’s now on YouTube that explains this going all the way through, but I think understanding it fundamentally gives people, especially the level of expertise that are on these calls, gives them an understanding of, okay, this is actually something that’s fundamentally different than the solution I have in place right now, because of this edge server.
And the edge [00:29:00] server basically captures that user before they actually enter your store. They, as we said a few times here on this show, is that we capture the data of your user when they enter the parking lot, as opposed to when they walk through your front door. And that way we can then pump it back to the data warehouse, which is first party data, and then we can do whatever we need to do with it there, provided that we’re compliant.
And this is 100 percent compliant solution with all the privacy restrictions in the U. S. as well as internationally.
Cameron: Yeah, exactly. And this is where I’ve tried to show you. What Cappy is doing differently, as you just said, Ralph. So Cappy would be the green, it’s coming to the browser, loses the cookies and that, that signal’s gone. And then your server is sending it back to their platforms, but it has no idea who those people are at this point.
It’s just people who’ve bought from your website. And Meta has to do the job of matching those people up versus you in this situation, having the data. We know who they are because we have the tags coming from the platforms. We just have to wait for those people to buy. And then we can send [00:30:00] that back to the platform saying, Hey, We’ve already matched the people up.
These are the people that clicked on your ad because we know you have the tag. There you go.
Ralph: Yeah, makes sense. And I love the green arrows here, by the way. So Cameron did all this. You did all this on your own. I didn’t know you had like these types of skills. Uh, tremendous. No, I mean, that really is, in essence, the difference between the 2. I guess maybe we can show. I mean, this is obviously this makes sense.
We’re going to be taking some questions here in just a little bit. There’s obviously a lot of. Google ads questions, which we may have to couch those for when john gets back on this
camera. Once it does. Yeah, that might just sort of slip off. But anyway, I know john Moran’s dog is chomping at the bit. john Moran’s forehead, I think, is a new one.
John Moran’s liver kidney. Anyway, the point is, is that this is a fundamentally different approach. And the reason why we put this together is because we have we wrote the integration between The edge, which is by. A company called blot out, they use cloud flare, look it up [00:31:00] CDN. It’s the largest CDN in the world.
There’s 7, 000 edge servers that they utilize that put their particular script on there and that platform plus our data warehouse integrated back into. Wicked reports, which is our interface, which is where you read the data, which we’re gonna hopefully see right here. Sort of compare and contrast. That’s where the rubber meets the road because the integration between those three things makes everything different.
But the key is capturing the data on the edge before it gets blocked by the browser. And that’s the key difference between happy. Would you agree? All right, so maybe we can go into, , I can compare and contrast. Do you have an example of maybe showing, the interface itself in a particular account?
And maybe how you would sort of look at the data inside how you’re viewing things inside meta versus. Looking inside the interface inside wicked reports, [00:32:00] is that safe to assume you still do look at the ad platforms to a certain degree. And if you need to share your screen, that’s cool, too, because it’s not like you don’t look inside the ad platform.
I just want to make that clear because
Cameron: No, I’m
Ralph: still look,
Cameron: yeah, I know. I’m in that platform all day, every day, basically. I live in that thing. So when they, when they introduce new things that cause bogs, my life is stressed straight away. There’s no delay.
Ralph: Oh, my God, that never happens. Come on. They never change anything without telling you
first.
Cameron: no, matter. We’d never do that.
Ralph: not in a million years.
So, This camera gets his screen up here. So we’re not discounting looking at the platform. I know we’ve talked about this before, numerous times. Yeah. In app ROAS is not to be trusted.
However, we still use it. We’ve got a lot of, we’ve got a lot of content out there on the internet, the interwebs, Cameron that says ROAS sucks. And it does suck as a source of truth, but we still look at it. You still look at it [00:33:00] as one of the metrics that you look at, then that’s obviously in platform, but the real source of truth.
Now, when you have data suite, you used to actually go into probably shopify or, the real source of truth in the CRM. Now you can see the same thing inside the interface inside wicked reports inside data suite. So, All right. So here we are, we’re looking at the inside of a meta ad account. Take us through sort of how you would compare and contrast and, and utilize this data and then cross reference it with what you see inside data suite.
Cameron: Yeah, sure. So I’ll jump through and show you a couple of things. And then I’ll give you an idea of how as a media buyer. This is tangibly helped me. have massive wins basically. So if we look at Metta right now, I just want to speak firstly to the CPA that we have and how I was speaking about earlier where you’re always going to see it lower in data suite because you have more data.
You’re getting those purchases that Metta doesn’t know they’re actually in existence. Okay. So that’s what you see [00:34:00] here. You can see
these campaigns there. Let
me just give you this January, 2025.
Ralph: We’re recording this on Valentine’s day, by the way, by the way, happy Valentine’s day.
Cameron: so yeah, you can see this. We’ll just look at these first two to show it. So you’ve got 801 here and wasn’t 179 use them as the identifiers for these campaigns names. So we have 95 cost per purchase showing in the app platform, 64 cost per purchase. Shown here. Okay, so we take away nkac and all these things.
Meta can’t show you that unless you have Datasuite, which is another topic. But anyway, Meta can’t show you that as standard. So we have the blended CPA of new customers and return customers. If I go into tier 11 via reports, really, here, you can see if I look at all kac, which is the same metric being compared.
We have 77 and 56. So you’ve gone 95, 77, 56. So this Scenario. There’s nothing I can [00:35:00] show you where it’s like, Oh, I would have turned off these campaigns or anything because obviously I’m not using it like this. I have the tools, but there could definitely be situations where, you’re 5 of the target.
You’re 10 of the target. And for your business, that is too much of the target and you have to cut something. But the reality is, It’s not over target if you were looking in a place that had all the data. . And I think a lot of people can be get held back by things like this. However, as I mentioned, we have the luxury of having other metrics that don’t exist in as manager.
Ralph: Let me just stop you there. Let me know before you go into the other metrics. So what you just showed is a perfect example. Same time frame, same look back period. We’re looking at January of 2024 here, we are Valentine’s Day. Okay, We’re two weeks after that. the point is, is that the end, the all cac, the a cac, which is the entire cost of acquiring a customer is about 20%.
There’s a 20 or [00:36:00] 25 percent difference between what you’re looking at inside meta and what you’re actually seeing inside the interface. We get reports and data sweep, which is not insignificant.
Cameron: Yeah, so that’s not live. That’s like you said, it’s two weeks later. It’s had time to bring all that data back. It should be as rich as it’s ever going to get. And yeah, it’s 20 percent difference.
Ralph: Right, so, like, the modeling is already taking place they filled the gaps as much as possible. We’re not looking if it would be an unfair comparison. If we actually looked back from, the 15th of January to today, because the data would still be, it would be more of a difference.
You’re actually giving it a 2 week grace period. To give meta even
more of a chance to backfill. But now it’s two weeks later, these are decisions you have to be making. You’re spending hundreds of thousands of dollars. there is a lot of money on the line here and you need to be able to make accurate decisions.
Based upon true data, as opposed to modeled data or data that you’re not confident
Cameron: yeah, exactly. [00:37:00] So to add to that, then what we are making those decisions on really is not this all cat number because we’re focused on new customer acquisition as you and john have, repeatedly told everyone about. So people have been watching for a long time should have that ingrained in them now.
But we’re passing what we preach like this is what we do on a daily basis in the actual accounts. Okay, so I am looking at this north star metric here of new customer cost to new customer acquisition cost of a car, a new customer, and it just doesn’t exist in as manager. So if I wanted to get this for as manager, I’d have to go into shopify.
I’d have to download a report of new customers. , this is what you used to have to do. And I’d work out, okay, what, what have we spent on this certain campaign? How many people have bought that particular product and make a loose calculation of, okay, they’re probably buying the product we’re showing from ads.
This is maybe what my end cac is, but it’s not very accurate. This tells me every single campaign ad set and ad, what is the actual new customer. acquisition costs for that asset. So it’s, fantastic. It’s really, [00:38:00] really helpful when you’re trying to determine how to optimize the campaign and judge the performance week to week of your actual, , fluctuations and seasonality, stuff goes out of stock, all the things like that.
Ralph: that’s a game changer right there because that’s accurate. Like when we said before, okay, you’ve got the big goal. You’ve got your MPIs, You’ve got your, like your business metrics. Obviously, you need to understand to determine what your NKAC is. There’s all that whole thing that we talked about. But when you get down to all right, I need to acquire more customers at a cost that makes sense for this particular project.
Particularly client. And I believe the ceiling on the NCAC here is what is it? A hundred dollars in that range, as far as NCAC goes,
Cameron: Yeah,
Ralph: it’s right around there. So you’re below it, but you need to know accurately. What am I acquiring a new customer for? And that’s the difference between data suite and everything else that’s out there, because it is able to determine who is new and who is returning with.
We, we measured this on another tier 11 [00:39:00] live. It’s almost 99 percent accurate. Which is crazy because of what you described in the first 20 minutes of the show, we’re capturing the data on the edge before the data gets blocked and then capturing his first party data, pumping it back into the ad platform, which is in this case, we’re still pumping it back in.
It’s not going to be 100 percent accurate. However, when you view it inside the interface. It’s nearly a hundred percent accurate. We’re never gonna say a hundred percent. Let’s say it’s 99% or 95%. John continues to say it’s a hundred percent. But anyway,
Cameron: yeah. cover yourself.
Ralph: cover yourself. Nothing’s ever a hundred percent.
That’s why you know,
ivory soap is 99.9. What is 44 and one hundred’s pure. Anyway, we’ll go out the ivory soap road here, 99%. So, but that’s a super important thing. So you’re making these decisions on real data. Is my point here,
Cameron: Yeah, exactly. And this is one thing I want to show you specifically, Ralph. So we have tons of metrics in this [00:40:00] dashboard that don’t exist in as manager. But one of the things you mentioned there was the new customers, new visitors. Okay. And here’s an example of me actually using this where in prior. Working you just you wouldn’t have this information and you might make decisions that are incorrect or if they’re not incorrect, they just hold you back from scaling. Okay, so this ties back into what John and I were discussing last week with time lag and you can work with time like when you have this because you have additional information.
So this is basically a week. I need to just look. What was the week it off? This was December. So it was August. Yeah, I think this is August. I’m getting fused by the American dates.
I 12 August to the 18th of
August.
Ralph: August. Yep.
Cameron: Yeah. Okay. Anyway, you can see in this week. We’re looking high level now at all the platforms because we’re doing stuff on meta and this account mainly, but we want to see how it affects full funnel.
And you’re going to see this played out. Okay, so there was a 17 percent increase in spend because we wanted to scale. So when we do that. [00:41:00] The end cat here, you can see it’s come up 30 percent over 100 to 104. We’re above our target. Okay, so previously what people would do, they look at that and go, Oh, no, we’re above the target.
That’s been a full week. Let’s scale back that 20 percent we just did on meta. However, because I have this information, I can look at this metric here that 99 percent accurate or 100 percent accurate if you’re john. And I can say, well, we’ve got 26%. New visits to the website for that 17 percent increase in cost.
So even though the end cat has come up with this time lag thing we were talking about last week, I know the time lag on this business is two weeks. I just want to wait another week to see what happens once people move down the funnel and convert on Google with that extra time that they need. Because Google’s telling me that’s how long it’s going to take.
Okay. So I know from this metric that well, I’m getting the visits. Meta has done its job. It’s bringing me the people. Now I just want to wait a bit longer and see how the funnel [00:42:00] performs. because I know how the funnel works. Okay. So if I look around, sorry, my camera is in the way and I move this a week forward.
Ralph: So just for those of you who might be listening here, what we’re doing is we’re comparing back in August when you scaled up a meta campaign by about 16 or 17 percent in that week, you saw NCAC starting to rise. But you knew because it takes about two weeks, and this is, was last week’s show, which was awesome, by the way, last week’s show showed us that the importance of time lag and time lag is absolutely essential.
But, you know, in this particular case with this customer, it takes about 14 days or so for a client to, or a new customer for them first impression. Our first click to purchase. Is that what you’re doing? Are you using first impression? You’re using first click. How do you measure
that?
first impression
Cameron: on Google.
Ralph: Makes sense.
Cameron: Yeah. So Hit that as the next week and [00:43:00] NCAC is now down 10%. New visits are stable because we obviously have not increased new visits. We’ve not increased again and everything else is looking green because it’s just a funnel. So that’s like a perfect example of how I use this in reality. And yeah, massive, massive help.
Ralph: that’s fantastic. So it’s a combination of solid data, also understanding the client journey, but well, the journey for the customer, the customer’s journey in this particular case, and every single, time lag is going to be different for every single customer. You just happen to know, working with them and looking at the data.
And for people who don’t know that, I know John uses Google in order to do it. How did you do it? Yeah, I think that was sort of a revelation because sometimes it appears, sometimes it doesn’t, you have to refresh the screen inside the Google ads platform. It’s like, how did you figure out it was 14 days without that?
Or what’s the best way to figure out time lag?
Cameron: well, we had a luxury of John a long time ago told us. So before we didn’t, [00:44:00] we didn’t do it. We just kind of knew, Like some clients would have information. They know how long their funnel was, and we could kind of work with that. But a lot of people, you just didn’t know. It was just a case of, okay, we’ve gone down and you develop practices like crutches release.
So I used to just hold a lot of people. I’m very against it on the meta side. They’ll scale up every three days, scale back every three days, that kind of thing. I got into the habit of just making performance decisions on a weekly basis. So I always do things on a Monday. I would wait a week, no matter what.
And then I might hold a week. And then pull back. So it’s just really the luck rather than the actual science. But now we have the science, we can look at time lag in Google and we know exactly how long the conversion window is
Ralph: Perfect.
That’s great. Well, this has been amazing. Uh, Love the theory, like this is how it works. This is how you actually use it in practice, compare and contrast. and obviously this is a tool that’s now being deployed. That’s making what you do every single day a hell of a lot more effective. and I know for a fact, this client is [00:45:00] ecstatic with the results that without this type of data, I don’t know as if we would have been able to it.
Get it because we would have been guessing most of the time, to
Cameron: Yeah. One, yeah, for sure. And one more thing, just because I have other accounts Ralph that I, that have, dashboards like this and they show new visits. What you’re saying about the accuracy is a big factor here as well, because there’s certain tools that I use where they have this, but you don’t know if the new visits are actually accurate.
Yeah. Because they don’t have that piece of the edge tag capturing those people, essentially.
Ralph: And the edge tag is the key. So you need the edge tag in order to install it. need the interface to be able to read it. The only place you can get it is to your 11 data suite. So anyway, enough with the sales pitch, but that is the sales pitch. Cause that’s the facts. Uh, all right. We’re going to get to some questions here and we’re going to put you where I’m going to try it, , , for any of you who are asking really specific John Google questions, we’re going to kind of skip over some of those.
Well, maybe you can come back and ask them next week. He is going to be back. He’s out with his daughter. Today, I think today is his daughter’s birthday on [00:46:00] Valentine’s day. So anyway, so happy birthday. Uh, there, let’s go into some of these and John Moran’s dog actually has a great question here, which I think you can, you are very well versed in answering, I don’t know, are we going to have a Cameron Campbell’s dog at some point in time on this channel.
I don’t know.
Cameron: I feel like a cat would be better alliteration. Cameron’s cat or something.
Ralph: cat. All right. John ran his dog. Ask how can you effectively shift clients? Focus from row S to Murr and CAC, especially those who struggle to move away from her last mindset. Great question.
Cameron: Yeah, I think, well, you and John have basically made perfect videos outlining this. And for me, it’s a case of Send them the video, send them the timestamp because I think john showed one where he looks at M. E. R. And, cat in the wicked reports dashboard and you can see, one line going up one line going down and you know it’s perfect.
Okay. How I’ve done it with clients is I’ve literally drawn graphs. So I have graphs that I think I showed this week. The client we were maybe going to talk about [00:47:00] today, but there’s not enough time. But I basically show them. I show them what happens in scenarios where Okay. You have the ad stop, what would happen to that?
Return customer. It would keep going up. Your memory are going up. What would happen if you scale to aggressively? And then you can see the gap between. Okay, the two lines are very close in this part of the graph. Down here where we scale it aggressively, they’re very far apart. That’s why your MBR is coming down like it’s not.
If you do it visually, it’s not that hard to explain, but it needs to be that visual thing for people to get the moment, in my opinion.
Ralph: Very cool. I think it, yeah, It’s a long process. In some cases, we still, we are still figuring out how to do this. And in some clients that have just for whatever reason, maybe our contact is not selling it internally as well as they can, or can possibly, and or the C suite or the leadership team within the organization just is stuck in this old way of doing things.
This is
Cameron: want [00:48:00] to know. Yeah.
Ralph: And don’t want to know, I don’t want to look at a new way of doing things, but this is a complete mind shift. Thankfully, we have a tool and a solution that now exposes this and shows it. And up until really about 3 to 6 months ago, I know you’ve been using it for some time. your clients were actually on these before pretty much everybody else inside tier 11.
We didn’t really have a tool to prove it. So now we do. And that’s been the big part to it. And now that we’ve sort of vetted it internally. this is going to be a part of your job now, because otherwise you are really marketing blind. So, okay.
Cameron: Yeah. I have big accounts. the one wants to do nine figures this year and it’s, they’ve been two years. It’s like just trying to get the education and change things that even they’ve done with you for a long time. It’s that familiarity, you know, consistency bias. It’s hard to then say, well, we’re not going to do it different.
you have to educate gradually.
Ralph: hard. I know which one you’re talking about there. all right. Well, great question. John. All right. Romina has a question. I have some meta ads questions when it comes to running [00:49:00] meta ads. How many new creatives should you be testing every week?
Cameron: Yeah. So for me, it’s like, I know there’s people online always talking about testing creative and you should test X percentage or whatever and test, test, test, test all the time. I definitely think quality is better than quantity. So it depends on what resources you have. If you’re like a founder led brand and you’re happy doing the content and you can pump out tons of content or you have a product that’s just very, um, Intuitive for people making content make as much as possible if you have something that is a lot harder to advertise.
You’ve got to be more strategic with it. And I would say the minimums really you’re looking at doing is if you’re running a campaign, you want to be at least getting every creative to have three to five times your target CPA and spend per week. So if you have a certain budget for the campaign, as long as every creative in that budget could get three to five times a CPA, they might not all get that because some might just.
Get weighting of the spend that is a good enough metric for me to [00:50:00] say that’s how many you need to test. But I’m a big proponent of you don’t need to test every week. You know, people want you testing constantly. I found and like what you talk about with, creative not fatiguing with John. I’m completely support that too.
Many accounts have had the same creative for years in them. It doesn’t necessarily fatigue if you know what you’re doing on the media buying side.
Ralph: Yeah, there’s audience fatigue, not necessarily ad fatigue, which was sort of the
whole, Yeah.
which was one of the videos that we did a while back. Romina has another question here. Wow. she is on the ball here today.
Uh, Cameron, she’s on it. what, one thing you’ve noticed that really sets a successful business apart, like what do bigger businesses do differently that helps them scale?
Cameron: Yeah, I think the bigger businesses, especially when they have marketing teams, they’re more removed from the emotion of the business and They look at things on longer timeframes and it means they chill more and it just basically allows them to scale kind of like the example I showed you where [00:51:00] we’ve seen the new visits come up and we’ve waited a week.
That’s very hard to do where people have basically started this business from the ground and it’s their baby. I find these sort of founders are, there’s someone very close to it from the beginning. They’re looking at performance daily and they’re getting the stress. All of that, that daily return basically because it’s their money or it’s, they can see it going out of business and that’s that fear.
So for me, that’s a big thing. Like the big businesses, they have teams in place and they don’t have the emotional connections that they don’t care as much about the daily fluctuation, but that is actually a positive thing that allows them to grow bigger because they’re not meddling. Just like don’t touch it.
Ralph: No, I, I would agree. I mean, I think there’s an emotional attachment as a founder. I mean, being one myself a hundred percent. if you have people that are in, as long as you’re well-informed, like in that particular case, when you’ve scaled up by 17% and all of a sudden. my NCAC starts to increase that was, let’s not freak out here.
We also know the [00:52:00] data. You knew that it was a 14 day window in order to figure out whether or not that scale was going to turn into new customers, which eventually did. So it’s like, it’s holding on sometimes just a little bit longer and having trust in your team oftentimes is the key to scale as a business owner.
At least that’s from my perspective. Hi, the best people you possibly can and let them do their job. So exactly a
Cameron: hundred percent and definitely don’t be looking at it on a daily basis. I think that’s the worst torture anyone can do to themselves. It’s meant to fluctuate day to day. It’s like looking at your stock portfolio, like every minute or every day,
Ralph: which everyone does.
Yeah, everyone does, but I mean, it’s human nature. So, all right, John Moran’s disciple. We have his dog and his disciple here. Metta question. What’s the simple, but proven remarketing campaign strategy on Metta for e commerce? And we’ve got four minutes left, so we’re going to try and get to as many of these as possible, so
Cameron: go for
Ralph: it.
Cameron: Yeah, for me, just making creative that is going to be dealing with the things people care about in that [00:53:00] remarketing phase. So like, if you’re making creative, you have to think, what is that creative intended to do? If you just have a creative that is basically talking about someone’s problem and introducing your product, but doesn’t handle any of their objections or compare any the issues.
Competitors that they might be seeing you’re gonna basically lose out. So for me, it’s all looking. It’s all about looking at that creative and going, Hey, do I have a full suite of stuff that is going to handle the problems that my customer has when they’re being remarketed to? And for me, that’s a big thing.
It’s like. Just making sure you’re marketing to the people correctly.
Ralph: 100%. quick question here. I’m not sure. China. So, China X, I’m not sure isn’t data suite the same as wicked reports. wicked reports is the interface portion of. Data suite, it’s one part of the integration, the data warehouse is the other part, but the most important thing is the integration between the edge by blot out the data warehouse, where captures the 1st party data.
So it’s our 1st party data. And then it’s actually piped into the interface, which is wicked [00:54:00] reports. So side by side looking at and we’ll have. Future shows on this side by side wicked reports versus alone versus data suite using wicked reports interface. There are clear differences, almost like Cameron talked about here with Cappy still is, is better from that standpoint, we’re also shareholders in.
Reports. However, we created a slightly better, more accurate solution for people like Cameron to be able to make these sorts of decisions. So, thanks for that question there. Ollie Lee boy, you should be asking questions here. My God. All right. Romina has got lots of questions. I think this might be sort of be our last one here when it comes to running meta ads, how many new creatives should, Oh, we already asked that one.
We asked that. Yeah, I already asked that one. here’s one from Alison. How should paid content on meta ads and organic IG content work together? Should we be using organic IG to test content angles that resonate with our audience or are they completely separate?
Cameron: I personally think they’re completely separate, like you’re never going to be as fast on your organic [00:55:00] getting data as you can be with paid ads.
I think you’re best using the organic side to build brand, build brand loyalty, build people top of funnel, that kind of stuff, try to sell to them less, be more aesthetic, sell the brand as a visual thing, and this personality. And then on the ads, that’s where you hard sell. Like, I really like selling quite hard on the ads, basically.
Yeah, I think that’s what they’re good for because you can turn it off and nobody sees it. Yeah, that’s
Ralph: the beauty, but to your point, like it’s something that you see when you’re doing this, when you’re doing analysis, if you have a really good content team and they’re posting a lot on Instagram or Facebook, do you go in and look and see, like, from a page standpoint or from on their Instagram accounts?
Like what’s resonating that’s related to the brand? Do you look at that for potential creative ideas, new ways in which to scale? Like, how
Cameron: do you leverage it? Yeah, 100%. We’ll look at it. We’ll look at comments. if it’s something that has. I can have conversion theme to it. We will. We’ll even test it as an ad, but if it’s getting [00:56:00] engagement, you know, he’s getting lots of views and stuff.
That’s part of the algorithm. You’re wanting to get engagement as well as meet your conversion. You’re sorry business objective. That is how the Facebook option works. So absolutely. If something’s getting engagement, even if it’s not. And it’s current form useful to be as an ad, we can take it, repurpose it, or we can use it as inspiration because we know it’s something that gets engagement.
How can we make this into something that actually sells as well?
Ralph: Yeah. Differentiate that between product somewhat or disease state or whatever it is, it related to the industry that you’re in, as opposed to, you know, a lot of content teams will just do a funny meme of like the CEO or something like that.
It’s like, which gets lots of them get, it’s not going to be an ad. So that’s not going to say anything. Not that we would ever do that on our Instagram, but I have seen it done. All right. We’ve got last question here. and we’re going to ask from Meta girl, great name, by the way. what’s your strategy for testing creatives, audiences and placements within media?
So what is your testing strategy?
Cameron: Yeah, basically again, all starts the creative. We have like an [00:57:00] overarching pillar. So that’d be the pillar angle of your creative that you know is proven from what you’re seeing in your other ads. So I’d say go look at the other ads, see what seems to be a theme.
Then we’re going to be testing different messaging or different visuals. I have a very complicated diagram of how we test and we basically isolate variables. We isolate hoops and then we have bodies or we, we have the same body and we change the hooks, but essentially it’s pretty simple. What I do, I like to test them all in the campaign with the running because I’m at scale.
So it’s an environment where. They’re going to have to operate and you just put them in. Everything always starts for me on a Monday. I let it run for a full week and then review it. And then we make decisions. How is the creative performed? But also how is our overall MPI being affected? Has it been brought down?
Has it been lifted? Because you need to factor that in as well with creative testing. That’s awesome.
Ralph: that got to be a tier 11 live just to show how you actually do your testing. Because that’s one of the biggest questions that has always existed on meta. What’s the best way to test? And [00:58:00] everybody has a different answer.
And obviously it works for you with super good data now, obviously with data suite. So, uh, Thank you so much for coming on. you pinch hit here on short notice, put together a presentation for our viewers, listeners, which was absolutely amazing. Great job. Thank you so much for coming on today. Cameron, we’ll want you back soon.
We’re going to have to bump out that Moran guy, I think for a couple more shows, or maybe you guys can go toe to toe. I don’t know. So I think we’re on to something here. but thank you so much. All of you. We did not get to all the questions. This was the worst week for us to get to questions. We were more content focused.
Come back next week. I know John and I were going to be doing next week’s show. Obviously we can answer a lot of your Google related questions. Then same time, same channel, two 30, every Friday, tier 11 live. Thank you, Cameron Campbell for co hosting today. All right. Hope you enjoyed today’s episode. And I know there’s a lot of questions at the end there surrounding meta as well. We did do a Q and a [00:59:00] and. I think there’s a lot of value just in that last section, which I didn’t really talk about in our introductory section here. So make sure that you don’t miss any tier 11 lives head on over to tier11.
com forward slash YouTube or visit any of our social channels and make sure that you do follow us. You’ll get a notification turn on your notifications when we do go live Sometimes we do change the times but that type of content is the type of content that I think you’re really wanting here a mixture of Very high strategic stuff, which we do some of the other shows that we’ve done in the last few weeks was very tactical things like what Cameron was talking about on this week’s show.
So let us know if you enjoy that, especially comment on Spotify. We’re seeing a lot of growth, a lot of new listeners coming in on Spotify. Really appreciate that. It’s a great place to leave a rating and a review, especially a review. A five star rating would be very nice. However, we’d love to know what you think about these shows, highly tactical in nature and whether or not you’d like us to do more of them.
So for all the resources that we mentioned here [01:00:00] on today’s show, head on over to perpetual traffic. com. And on behalf of my amazing cohost, who is not here today, Lauren E Petrullo, until next show, see ya.
