Ralph Burns and John Moran, the Perpetual Traffic team unpacks the massive Meta ad platform changes now affecting marketers globally. As Advantage+ campaigns edge out manual controls, Ralph and John expose what’s really going on under the hood—and what advertisers must do to adapt. With over $1 million in ad spend analyzed from their proprietary “lab,” you’ll get front-row insight into how Tier 11 is pivoting for better ROI using an unnamed—but highly effective—CAPI-based custom event system. If you’re a business owner, CMO, or media buyer navigating Meta’s new limitations, this episode is your tactical guide to staying ahead of the curve in 2025.

Chapters:

• 00:00:00 – Why This Meta Update Will Change Everything You Thought You Knew
• 00:00:58 – The Announcement That Shook Ad Agencies Worldwide
• 00:03:08 – John Moran’s Million-Dollar Test Lab Drops Game-Changing Intel
• 00:04:29 – The Secret Sauce: Merging Advantage+ with CAPI Like a Pro
• 00:05:28 – Meta Just Moved the Goalposts — Here’s What That Means for Your Sales
• 00:08:21 – If You’re Still Running Ads the Old Way… You’re Already Losing
• 00:09:03 – What 7-Figure Testing Reveals About Meta’s Algorithmic Shift
• 00:11:05 – How AI + First-Party Data Are Quietly Rewriting the Rules of ROAS
• 00:15:57 – This CAPI Tactic Could Be the Attribution Fix You’ve Been Begging For
• 00:32:52 – Why Linear Data Flow Is Now the Backbone of Profitable Campaigns
• 00:33:11 – Miss This Tracking Detail? Say Goodbye to Scaling Cleanly
• 00:33:38 – The Disappearing Manual Button: What Meta Isn’t Telling You
• 00:34:34 – The New Blueprint for Building Future-Proof Campaigns
• 00:36:14 – Budget Allocation Tactics That Survive Meta’s Latest Chaos
• 00:37:02 – Audience Strategy 3.0: Custom Signals That Cut Through the Noise
• 00:51:07 – What Real Creative Testing Looks Like (Hint: It’s Not What You Think)
• 00:53:35 – Final Fire: Live Q&A, Rapid Tactics, and Ralph’s No-BS Advice

LINKS AND RESOURCES:

• Episode 691: The MAJOR Meta Advantage+ Changes You Must Know
• Meta Advantage + Breaking News! | Tier 11 Live! – EP037
• Get Your nCAC Calculator Now!
• Tier 11 Jobs
• Perpetual Traffic on YouTube
• Tiereleven.com
• Mongoose Media
• Perpetual Traffic Survey
• Perpetual Traffic Website
• Follow Perpetual Traffic on Twitter
• Connect with Lauren on Instagram and Connect with Ralph on LinkedIn

Thanks so much for joining us this week. Want to subscribe to Perpetual Traffic? Have some feedback you’d like to share? Connect with us on iTunes and leave us a review!

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READ THE TRANSCRIPT:

How Meta Ads Are Changing Forever: Advantage+ & cAPI Subterfuge REVEALED!

Ralph: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Perpetual Traffic Podcast. This is your host, Ralph Burns and the founder and CEO of Tier 11, and today’s show is a follow on episode to a show we did back on April 25th, where we talked about some of the changes that are coming down the line, or we’re just about to happen full bore inside meta and.

Ralph: Having advertised on this platform for, Hmm. Wow. Well over 15 years at this point in time, being one of the first Facebook ad agencies on the planet 10, 12 years ago. These are big changes. These are huge changes. I can remember when they installed, I. Power Editor. That was a big change. This is nothing by comparison to that.

Ralph: Remember when they took away the pixel five or six years ago, uh, there has been huge changes in this platform. And one thing that’s constant with this entire industry is change. it’s a good thing that you’re listening to this show because we break this stuff before anybody else does in the marketing space.

Ralph: Today we’re gonna be getting [00:01:00] into a lot of the things that we talked about we didn’t really know back in episode 6 91, which was only. Literally a week or so ago, uh, when we were really starting to see this roll out, they made sort of a, an announcement meta did, uh, on their earnings call, and then a couple of subsequent communications, some communication that we got, uh, through our partner manager program, a new sort of program that they have for agencies.

Ralph: But, uh, John Moran, who is gonna be the star of today’s episode, has even more in depth understanding of it, and in a very short period of time, has spent over $1 million in many cases of his own money and his sort of his test bed, which we refer to as the lab. He’s gonna be revealing that here today.

Ralph: So if you’re a meta advertiser and you’ve seen these changes, you’ve seen Advantage plus, maybe you can toggle to manual or maybe the manual is now, disconnected or blacked [00:02:00] out or not even there at all. We’re sort of seeing it in different ways in every single Ads Manager. This is the show for you and I highly encourage you to watch this over on our YouTube channel, over our perpetual traffic.com/youtube.

Ralph: If you are listening to this the day or the morning that it comes out, it, that might not be up as of yet. So I would encourage you to head over to the Tier 11 channel on YouTube. That’s, you can go over to tier eleven.com/youtube. Very easy. It’s the best way to find it. Uh, and then also, uh, subscribe to that channel because we did this on a live about two weeks ago.

Ralph: Uh, about a week and a half ago, actually right around the time that we released, uh, the episode that, uh, was episode 6 91, which will leave links in the show notes to listen to that one. If you haven’t seen any of this, you’re not aware of the changes. These are massive changes, guys. So John, fortunately is on the bleeding edge, not the cutting edge, like the bleeding [00:03:00] edge and really leading our team and, uh, the entire advertising world, in my opinion, when it comes to this stuff.

Ralph: So there is Advantage Plus, but then there is also a tactic that he has deployed. We haven’t even named it yet. It’s basically. Cap. It’s a Cappy custom event, which I referred to him back on episode 6 91, but I think he explains it and you can actually see it in action even better over on the YouTube channel.

Ralph: So, uh, definitely check that out over perpetual traffic.com/youtube. Listen to today’s show. Go over and watch it over on the YouTube channel. Make sure you subscribe so you don’t miss any of this sort of stuff. And this is the kind of cutting edge stuff that we’re gonna be bringing to you in the coming weeks here as this story evolves.

Ralph: And. You know, we spent a hundred million dollars a year well over that now on meta, about the same over on Google. You know, John is one of the leading authorities in both spaces now. So I would encourage you to really listen and learn, and [00:04:00] I. Figure out what your plan is as to how your business, how your accounts, if you’re an agency, how your department, if you’re a director of marketing, is gonna handle this.

Ralph: Because this is a massive change right now. I know a lot of folks will say, oh, well this basically means like the end of the media buyer. Maybe it does at some point. Not now, though. You need smart media buyers who understand this stuff and have seen the changes coming and can adapt to it, and that’s why we did today’s episode.

Ralph: So without further ado, here’s John and myself with all the changes with Advantage Plus, as well as the, uh, CAPI Integration Custom Event, uh, diabolical strategy on today’s show. Take it away, John. Ralph.

John: . Hey, , everybody out there in internet land,

Ralph: i’m excited for today’s show, man. Oh

John: man. Is, there’s some [00:05:00] cool stuff going on right now. it’s something we’ve been talking about for at least, I think three months now. Ever since I was working with that meta team that I will not oust them because they gave me, you know, a three month headstart on what was coming down the pipe.

John: I. And then 23 hours ago, a launch happened in inside of Meta that isn’t necessarily completely wiping out manual, but it’s, as close as you could possibly be without, causing a meta boycott from advertisers. And to share screen for a moment to kind of catch everyone up out there that may have not heard about the new update that just came about, .we now have a new update to Advantage Plus shopping is now called Advantage Plus Sales, and this now defaults into each meta advertiser’s, , account.

John: Essentially what this means is that what we were kind of, you know, whistle blowing for like the last three months is that. It doesn’t look like any of our targeting or exclusions are working. Our [00:06:00] solve for that was to do CAPI imports by new customers, returning customers, the product, new customer byproduct, the returning customer, and this has been our.

John: Fight against the man, I guess I would say, into regaining some sort of control so that we don’t end up in a situation where you launch just a simple Advantage plus sales campaign and then let you know the targeting, decide the exclusions be decided by meta I mean, I. It basically, it goes into like meta’s little black box.

John: it is a very, very, very powerful campaign type. And when you can leverage it appropriately, it’s actually a lot easier than us fighting against it. So we’ve seen this inside of, , you know, inside of Data Suite where we knew. The paid media platforms were messing up. I’ve, basically made my name by saying, this is what they tell you.

John: This is what actually happens.

Speakers 1: Right.

John: The problem though is that we develop feeder strategy, we develop dogpile strategy, we [00:07:00] develop, you know, non-brand brand versions. You know, existing customers go this way, optimize for new customers, go that way. And we’ve been at the mercy of asking permission and begging and pleading the paid media platforms to do what we’ve been asked of them to do because they were listening to us for a decade until recently, they said, , , you know what?

John: My AI is smarter than your technical media buying. And sometimes that’s right. Now a lot of times that’s right. The problem is, it is so powerful that the technical media buying that has now kind of gone away, that has been replaced by AI, is in fact so powerful that it can attribute and contribute conversions extremely well.

John: The problem is it may be on conversions you don’t necessarily want. Mm-hmm. So we’ve been running some import tests. And those import tests that we have been actually now utilizing the new structure that I learned in Iceland that [00:08:00] Meta wants all the advertisers to now use, which is actually way dumbed down and simplified.

John: And it’s because of that, that the paid media platforms such as Meta Google are. Punishing you with conflicting data and results if you’re not following it that way. Mm-hmm. So what does this mean for the general advertiser? It’s actually become a lot easier for the general advertiser if a person that has no technical BD buying experience.

John: Meta is trying to say, that’s okay, you don’t need it. Five years ago, you know, me and Kasum like joked around with a prediction where it’s like, just give us your website, give us your credit card and we’ll take it from there. we’re now closer to that portion of the journey than ever before.

John: However, you have now even less control. And that is a scary, scary thought when you’re talking about, well, I have to make new customers for my clients. It’s the only way to grow. You can only grow in new customers. You can reengage, you can get existing customers to buy. It’s a little more difficult, but it’s [00:09:00] much harder than trying to go after something that is new.

John: And interestingly enough, the A BO model is now failing instead of meta. , Because of this update and the team that I’ve been working with inside of Meta has explained the opportunity de-dupe ad set algorithm that just went live. The de-duping algorithm that just went live essentially means that when an opportunity is found in a same conversion event, as in two different campaigns and or ad sets, meta will now de-dupe that opportunity into one.

John: And you do not get to choose or identify which one that is. So what’s interesting is if you have something that is a, I’ll give you a, very simple example. A campaign with a certain amount of ads that are going after a prospecting audience that you used to define. Now that definition is gone and now it is prospecting based on your words, phrases, you’re creative, the interpretation of that creative and the landing page that you’re sending those users to.

John: That is now your targeting. Well, when you launch [00:10:00] another campaign with a different potentially piece of creative for the same product, the people that are found now in ADSET slash Campaign A cannot be found. I. Ad set slash campaign B. So therefore,

Ralph: What becomes very important all of a sudden, but not all of a sudden,

John: but even more so.

John: What has become the most important things so far that we can leverage is your conversion actions. Your conversion actions now dictate how opportunities move. So you have add to cart campaigns, view content campaigns, purchase campaigns. Great. But APOs gone, creative testing is more complicated.

Ralph: Mm-hmm.

John: They’re no longer sharing users with your other creative, with your other non-creative. They’re going after the same audiences, but they cannot be found in both audiences.

Speakers 1: Mm-hmm.

John: So everything that we’ve kind of known has been kind of flipped upside down and we’ve been testing it and leveraging it, and we’ve been seeing some.

John: Pretty unbelievable results when we’re using our data suite to [00:11:00] import these conversions back into, to meta and even into Google. So much so that it is scaling at a ridiculous rate and also we’re now no longer at the mercy of, the algorithms essentially choosing the type of customers new versus returning that it can go after.

John: We now get to dictate it. I made an analogy that instead of buying the bath water and buying the baby, but only really wanting the baby, and you kind of throw out the bath water because it’s like, eh, you know, I got some existing customers, but I, paid a lot for ’em. And what is my actual cost required?

John: First time customer, well, lemme dive into, you know, data suite and lemme see how the campaigns are kind of messing up. We’re able to take back that control. Now this the control that I think we’ve shared before, but now it’s in a bit of a different structure. Looks more like this now. And I’ll go ahead and share screen please.

John: Thank you so much. Mm-hmm. So what we found is that if I have a creative testing campaign, and this creative testing campaign is using the new version that Meta wants, which is [00:12:00] CBO. Minimal ad assets, almost all of your creative inside of one ad set. Now what we ask for, it’s kinda like Genie, what we ask for we get, but it’s like, you know, this is like if Genie had a weird, sick, twisted sense of humor, like this is kind of what we’re seeing.

John: Like meta is now Genie. Because when we’re looking at, you know, those 32 purchase of immunes, we said, okay, I want immune purchases, which means I want my product of critical immune defense to be sold. And we have 35 sales, 32 of them are the product that’s being sold. However, only 16 were new. We’re like, well dang, when we exclude existing customers, well, we set our existing customer bid cap to zero.

John: It gets ignored. Even advantage plus. Mm-hmm. Let’s try it again. 44 purchases, 42, immune only 20, less than half our new customers, same structure setup. We said, okay, well what if we wanted the immune purchases, but what if we had them only new customers? That’s what says, okay, 50 sales, 42 new customers, 42 new customers of your immune.

John: Perfect. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. We’ve increased this from [00:13:00] a 50% to now, like an 85%. We’re 42. Outta 50. Yeah. Okay. Now we’re getting somewhere a, a. 80% increase in the amount of new customers in a campaign is massive. Hmm. So now we’re seeing, okay. this is what’s really crazy too, is we look at the Napp CPA and we have 109 with per purchase immune.

John: We spend 35 17, 35 1 7, divide that by the only 16 amount new customers that came in, we’re spending two 19. This one is already beating it at 2 0 3. This one got $219 nac. This was getting $203 nac. I spent more than twice as much on this, and this one was only running for a day.

Speakers 1: Hmm.

John: So I beat the other campaign running for two weeks.

John: I. Because I’ve said, no, no, no, I want this, okay. Here you go. At it. Cost is cheaper.

Ralph: There is a reason for all this. Right? , If you look back to February, like their quarterly, I think it was their quarterly earnings call and they talked about their investment in ai and also they announced that Advantage Plus [00:14:00] is going to be, , this non-manual Advantage Plus is going to start appearing.

Ralph: So we started hearing about it. We started seeing it in some of our campaigns. Obviously, you know, the meta contacts that you have are giving you even more insights. The point is, is like this has been coming and we’ve, if you sort of look at the history of advertising, just in general, like if you haven’t seen this coming, then you probably haven’t been paying attention.

Ralph: There’s also, bless you, there’s also a reason why, you know, in that same earnings call. Meta said we are investing 60 to 65 billion in AI in 2025. That’s billion with a B. Mm-hmm. And the data, the amount of data centers that they’re actually building, it’s not just to create an open ai, you know, platform that will rival OpenAI.

Ralph: Obviously they have their own LAMA platform, but this is to make the algorithm. To leverage the ai to leverage all the data that they have. Mm-hmm. To leverage their advertising platform [00:15:00] more effectively and to automate and utilize that ai. ’cause when you thinking about the algorithms inside the platforms, it’s really, it’s ai, it’s machine learning.

Ralph: At the end of the day, it’s sponsored by Vidia. You got it. Absolutely. The GPUs baby. The point is, is all man all manufactured in Taiwan. But anyway, the point I said that, set that aside for right now. The point is, is that this has been coming for quite some time, and if you didn’t see it back in February, I actually, we dropped the link inside , the notes here.

Ralph: , In case you didn’t see that, but that was like your first shot And our meta. I don’t know what they’re called now, has been saying like, this is coming, this is coming. This is coming for quite some time. We’ve been seeing it starting to appear, but it’s basically, it’s the degradation of manual everything.

Ralph: Yeah. Within meta, and that’s a big deal. It was always an option. Now it’s like gone. It’s like you have to live by this new rule that we are setting. So Big C change there. Yeah. Obviously the cap stuff we want to get into here in [00:16:00] today’s show. My big question for you is this. I know we were talking yesterday.

Ralph: I didn’t ask you this question, or I was, ’cause I was thinking it. I was like, shit. Did I ask him that? I don’t think I asked him that. How do we know, or how do you know from your standpoint that this just isn’t another freaking p max? Oh, it absolutely is. It is. Absolutely. So talk through that, Is, how is it different in your opinion? Or, and like what’s your view of that? If people say, yeah, it’s just another AI thing that I now I have less control but I’m still gonna have the other options.

Ralph: You kind of don’t know. No. So there is that as a

John: differentiator. The performance Max has always been since day one. Contrary to popular belief and even official literature. That I actually have proof now last week that that was a lie from Google themselves. I can have that shared. But the thing that we notice most often is that the.

John: The metric that meta quoted on [00:17:00] Advantage Plus compared to manual, that was the, from the variable group, not the control group. The 85% of advertisers out there that had this turned on without them understanding or knowing or agreeing to it, which means their campaigns started using Advantage plus audiences in manual campaigns.

John: Their metrics that they went to and said, this is the results that we’d like is a 24% reduction in CPA and a 22% increase in roas. Yes. If you target people that I may not want you to target and you claim credit for them anyway, your metrics look good. My business hurts. Mm-hmm. That sounds exactly like performance Max.

John: Sure. It goes after brand. Performance Max now has a leg up in terms of in platform CP and roas because it’s the last thing people do and it’s the least expensive. Channel two advertising is last Click brand. Sure. it’s the easiest one to make work. You can basically not even try. They’re doing that on prospecting, however.

John: [00:18:00] Because the prospecting is not trying to compete with another advertiser, you are now stuck with a whomever can deliver the most engaging, amazing content wins, which benefits the meta user. I. The meta experience you have inside that platform now in vr. Mm-hmm. Now in ar, now in, you know, all of the ways that Meta is trying to bring you from the desktop into, your whole mind of thinking is now based off of whomever can make the best content when.

John: Yep. And their targeting is now based on content is no longer based on audiences and interests and segmentations and psychographics and demographics. Still geographics, but that’s the only one that’s left. Sure. So your content, what meta came out and said, or your creative really right? Yeah. The content, sorry, the creative, that’s where I’m at.

John: Right, and so what Meta has kind of released to us in Iceland last week was the way that they’re ultimately moving to is one campaign, one ad set. [00:19:00] When possible, and then multiple pieces of creative from top, middle, and bottom of the funnel, all within one ad set. And then it’s the advertisers slash the creative director’s job to iterate each portion.

John: Of those videos or images or statics or gifs mm-hmm. In order to make that ad better in that campaign. Yep. Supports the theory that they can go after purchases as much as they want because it’s new or returning, doesn’t matter. They’re sales and they’re, doing it because of your creative. Okay, fine.

Speakers 1: Sure.

John: But the way that meta set is be mindful of when you do that, your creative testing is no longer creative testing in the traditional sense. What they say is that you’re gonna find something like the founder’s story. That is actually the first ad in the ad set is going to have a large amount of spend and clicks, but very poor performance.

John: Mm-hmm. But the longer it goes on your middle and your bottom of the funnel will have less clicks and really low CPA and really high roas because it is pushing it through a funnel, which is why they’re [00:20:00] locking an audience into the ad set.

Ralph: Yeah. Sounds too good to be true. John Moran. What makes you so damn convinced?

Ralph: Well, I put a million bucks into this

John: model and it worked,

John: but

Ralph: I like playing the devil Well

John: with you anyway.

Ralph: Go ahead. I

John: know right?

Ralph: You flew your ass out to Icelander. Maybe they flew it out for you. But

John: No, I, I flew myself out unfortunately. Yeah, I, I, I had to pay for this knowledge. Out of my own pocket is

Ralph: Iceland Green

John: and Greenland is ice. Right. Well.

John: It’s black ice. Iceland is black with green moss over the lava rock that has taken over everywhere. What dude is a bear? I saw seven trees and I went through an hour of that country. I was like, there’s one, like it is just a barren waist that beautiful. But it is like, I mean, just lava feels as far as you, I can see.

John: I saw, I didn’t see like one animal. I’m like, what do they eat here? Oh my God. It was very strange, but it’s like, check this this out. this is what I was looking at to say like, [00:21:00] Ken, is this even plausible? And that’s what was interesting is when we look, ,

John: We went from 937 to 2.1 million, so we’re up 126% and. Interesting is we said, okay, like we have to segment them out, by the way, and that’s, the secret sauce here. Being able to first click. Cap import, not cap import. ’cause you cap import last click on a first click campaign and you’re so first click cap import of true first data is now king.

John: So if you’re doing like your Shopify imports, like if you have a direct integration with Shopify and you’re sending in your Shopify purchases, even though Shopify is actually measuring 44% accuracy based on even Shopify’s public data, they say our attribution model is only 44% accurate. You’re gonna copy import that and you’re gonna be, you know, 56% wrong.

John: So. It’s really interesting to see that when we started to scale up, and hopefully this starts to load for us. I don’t know why this is going so slow, but we’ve been still seeing this as a, when we increase our cost on everything outside of a [00:22:00] nc, a new customer version, we ended up getting a lot of existing customer growth.

John: So much so that we even saw this inside of Google ads. Where the new customer imports are finally, actually starting to grow in a good sense, where we’re actually seeing, you know, more new customers than returning customers. So even, you know, even Google Ads is doing this as well. So it is really interesting to see that what we’re optimizing towards, because there’s so much, and I can talk in such detail about how the AI and the targeting works.

John: There’s reasons that this is way less simple than we all assume. And it’s because of the competitive ecosystem that they’re trying to maintain the control over, so you versus the other advertisers that are selling products just like yours. And so I’ll share with that in a moment why this benefits meta more than the advertiser, but the way that we’re fighting it against is going after those peress.

John: But this can become very, very, very scalable. Adding a million dollars, getting 8% less cost of acquired first time customer, adding a half a million, getting 37% less [00:23:00] cost. I’ve already shown all this stuff here and I backed it up with all of our subscribers that are just continually scaling up to the moon.

John: But what was very interesting is whenever we didn’t ask for a new subscriber, we saw that it was like 53, 30 new, like, dang it. , 900, 600 new. I paid for 300 existing customers right there. It’s still not bad though. Subscribers not bad.

Ralph: It’s not bad. I mean, it’s not bad at all considering the platform the way that it is.

Ralph: We’re trying to obviously change that paradigm, but still, I mean, we’ve seen cases where it’s like 20% new,

John: 30% new, so, but then you ask for a new customer and now I’m missing it. What? I have 15, 14. Yeah. Outta 131, that’s a massive improvement. and it’s every single time it’s a massive improvement.

John: 1 75, 1 48. Good. I’m only 27 off outta 175. Not bad now, now I’m buying the baby at the cost with cost caps that I’m comfortable with, and I get the bath water for free. and it’s coming in at cheaper than I actually even care about.

Ralph: so [00:24:00] let me ask you this. All right, so there’s two different things that you’re doing here. We’re talking about Advantage plus obviously changing, but we’re also talking about this, you know, cap.

Ralph: I don’t even know what we wanna call it here. We have to name everything, of course. But like the cap optimization. Diabolical strategy, whatever. It’s so separate those two things out here. Like Advantage Plus is obviously this is a big deal here. Like this is huge breaking news that. We’re gonna get this into the algorithm, by the way, so that we rank for like Advantage plus Meta news.

Ralph: , Anyway, the point is, is because there’s literally nothing, there’s nothing out there on this. I sent you like the only video I could find last night. I’m like, hasn’t somebody else discovered this? So anyway, so separate the two pieces of news out, there’s the CAPI stuff and then there’s Advantage Plus.

Ralph: Yeah. How do they got it? How do they overlap? How do you keep ’em separate? That kind of thing.

John: So absolutely. So

John: Advantage Plus now says I am gonna go after anybody I want, regardless of what you say, I. Regardless of your [00:25:00] targeting, regardless of your exclusions, I’m going to go do whatever I want, which we already know.

John: That was a thing for a little while. that’s why you all are here, is to get the news before everyone else gets the news. Right? So we already knew that that was a thing, but

John: we have The Advantage Plus that basically says. I meta do not care. Advertiser what you want to go after all you can tell me what to do is get a conversion and what is that conversion, right? And 99% of advertisers are like, well, a lead, well a purchase.

John: They say, you got it. Is it the purchase of the product that you wanted? Maybe is it the purchase of the customer that you wanted? Maybe is it a purchase even from the person that even started in this channel of meta? Maybe it’s my standard event purchase. Exactly. It’s all I’m using, right? So meta says Excellent because I can go after purchase, you are allowing me to go after traffic that I didn’t generate.

John: From emails that maybe from a year ago from organic traffic that you’re already paying your [00:26:00] SOT for OSEO team for. Yeah. And Google traffic that you’re buying on different channels and the influencer people that are returning to your brand from your influencer channels that you’re doing it. The Rakuten Rakuten, I mean, I can go on and on and on now.

Ralph: And they’ve got, they invest 65 billion this year in ai and they know exactly where you’ve been before. Let’s not forget that.

John: Exactly. So they’re like, I will know how to sell everybody from everywhere, whether you want it or not, but you told me you want me to get a purchase. Exactly. I have myself on the back.

John: That’s fine. And not only that, I can engage view and just view conversion of those people. Right. Wow. And I can make it

Ralph: look good in the platform.

John: Exactly. Exactly. So. That was the big news that came out that already was happening. We already have a solve for it, which we get to next. Yep. But that’s the news that we got stuck with.

John: So we said, what lever can we pull? can’t do targeting, we can’t do exclusions. What levers can we pull? And that’s [00:27:00] where we came up with the idea of, well, if it’s gonna be such a conversion, greedy machine, how do we leverage that? Rather than fight against it and stop it, because I’m not going up against Mark Zuckerberg.

John: I will lose. Yep. But if I can you, you don’t

Ralph: have 60 billion in 2025, right? Your own AI platform. I

John: started it in video. No one’s use, nobody’s buying my damn GPI call it Face Magazine. It’s kind of like better. It’s

Ralph: better. Less pages, more compact, summarized, friendly,

John: softer. We then said, okay, what levers can we pull?

John: And that’s where we came up with this year and. This here is now the answer. this is now the levers we get to pull,

Ralph: Those are EMQ scores. I am assuming here ’cause I didn’t see it. Yeah, these are MQs.

Ralph: So we’ll go through

John: these. And so match rate

Ralph: a perfect, a perfect match rate for em. Q is 10, obviously nines and eights are fabulous.

John: It’s better than any grade I got in [00:28:00] all 12 years of my school. I wish my report card looked like that. Right?

Ralph: In elementary school I.

Ralph: Do the math a little bit better

John: too. I have to take off my socks. If I wanna count past 10, I run out of fingers. That’s right here. You’re

Ralph: talking about math.

John: Alright, so this is our answer to this is, okay fine. If you are going to be so good at getting conversions, what if I only allow you to be good at the conversions I want?

John: That was our answer. That was the lever. We can still pull. Mm-hmm. And thank God cap’s around. Otherwise we would be in a world of hurt. Conversions. API. Exactly. For those of you who don’t know what that is, okay. That means we get to import the conversions from our own data. We essentially remove the pixels capability of feeding itself the conversion, and now we feed the pixel, the data we want, the pixel to optimize for.

John: We’re back in control now. Yep. So fine. You wanna go after existing website traffic? New customers. Okay, fine. [00:29:00] But you can only do it if a. The click is actually coming from your campaign if you get a second click, which means if a first click is Google and the second click is meta, you do not get to take credit for it.

John: Now, if you sell the wrong product in that campaign, if we’re trying to sell hair, if we’re trying to sell a water bottle and you sell a shoe, you now do not get credit for it. Mm-hmm. If you sell a returning customer of one of ours, you no longer get to take credit for it. Or if you’re selling a new customer in a returning customer campaign, you now again, no longer get to take credit for.

John: So now we’re limiting what the

Ralph: campaign, narrowing the focus of the campaign and of that, in this case, really custom conversion at the end of the day. Or do you call it a custom event? Yeah, custom event. Custom Event.

John: Okay. Yeah, I’ve just been calling ’em like cap imports. But yeah, custom event is kind of what they’re, called.

John: So now what we’re looking at here and we say, okay, that’s great for new customer acquisition, but what if we wanna [00:30:00] sell upsells? What if we wanna have a sale to only existing customers? What if you know there’s a lot of these what ifs? So then we decided, okay, we’re gonna make a few different of these custom events as.

John: The conversion API imports coming from first click data from data suites warehouse, data warehouse, because that is very clean data cleaner than anybody else’s data, essentially, unless you’re meta, which they don’t even tell you that data. But now we say, okay, I’m gonna have a campaign going after people are buying my digestive product for the first time.

John: So that is the nc. This is the new customer. Hey, campaign. You are now allowed to go after digestive product, new customers. Here’s my creative, here is my landing page. You are only gonna. pat yourself on the back if you can Provide me a score that I deem to be good, not you deem to be good. Now, the other campaign though, , to people who are actually already an existing customer, I wanna run a sale to those people of a buy one, get one.

John: So this is gonna be optimizing for my digestive of [00:31:00] returning customers, or maybe I’m going to be selling digestive products to people who have previously purchased a joint. Product or an oral care product or an immune product. So now I’m able to actually cross sell, upsell, and optimize towards it. And it has to be the product that’s actually sold in that campaign, which is massive.

John: People have no idea the little troll that’s lurking underneath the bridge that they’re standing on of the, I’m selling pizza in my pizza campaign, but no one’s bothered to look if it’s actually selling hot dogs. Yeah, your AOV is wrong. Yeah, your handicap target is wrong. Your cost caps are wrong. If you haven’t verified that the product you’re trying to sell in that campaign is actually selling also to new customers.

John: You’re not marketing. You’re hoping. Isn’t this kind of

Ralph: old news though? I mean, I’m playing devil’s advocate again. because custom events and custom conversions have been around forever. Why is this so important

John: now? Yes. Custom events have been around for a while.

John: However, you could still have levers [00:32:00] that you don’t need to utilize that as an only source of truth. Your custom events, typically, and this is the first time I’ve been able to see it, because we sort of created it, which is that new customer only, or return customer only, which is something that people have been attempting to before, but not with first click data, right?

John: They’re using linear data or they’re using even old school time decay data, or they’re using, you know, full funnel data. So what’s really interesting is the secret sauce here is that the source of the upload. Has to be accurate to the campaign that it actually came from, because if it’s not, you’re gonna take your middle and bottom of the funnel campaigns that you do not know are middle and bottom of the funnel campaigns, and you’re gonna try to copy import a new customer there, that would be incorrect.

John: And you’re trying to optimize for a new customer. And when you upload your linear data, it gets distributed linearly. Right. And you are now going to confuse yourself by saying, [00:33:00] Hmm, I didn’t think a new customer would come from that campaign. That’s kind of remarketing. Well, yes, it’s true. It happened.

John: You did get a new customer from remarketing. Where did they start? , We didn’t upload it that way. My data doesn’t support it that way. I. So when you’re looking at where your actual conversions, the source of those conversions are. If you are not tracking this with a high, high, high, high, high degree of accuracy, if you’re missing the first five days of a 30 day sales cycle, your imported data is junk.

Speakers 1: Hmm.

John: If you’re missing the first five days of a 30 day sales cycle, that data is junk and you’re only going to hurt yourself. It’s better off just letting Google or meta do it.

Ralph: Makes sense. Can we show, like in your meta, I don’t know if it’s in the PWD account, but can we show specifically what we’re talking about when we talk about Advantage Plus in the manual Toggle.

Ralph: Sort of screen share, just so people understand that part of it. ’cause my guess is that a lot of people are gonna watch this video, they’re gonna be fascinated by the CAPI [00:34:00] import or custom event, CAPI import side, but also like, what am I seeing where, how is it all changing? all right, here we go. Right from, yeah. So we’ll campaign start right from the right, from the jump

John: as they say, right from the get go. So. For this one, we’re gonna be doing sales. ’cause we’re selling physical products. So I’m gonna choose the sales, like the campaign objective. Yep. And now this is where you could do a manual setup for your manual sales campaign.

John: This is not also available in a. , Many accounts. Now. This is what the differentiation is. Yeah. This one here still, this is

Ralph: cool. ’cause this is gonna, in two weeks you’re probably not gonna see that manual setup part.

John: No. And I actually have another account

John: Alright, so watch this. This is a different account.

John: Yep. Watch what happens when I hit Create sales. Continue. Yeah. It bypasses it ba, it is no longer there. No, no longer a choice, no longer an option. And that’s what we saw is that’s the [00:35:00] future. This right here, this update, this is introduced gradually. You may not see it yet. So it’s, what happens here is basically saying like, I have one account that still has it, but very soon you’re gonna click it and it’s gonna go, all right, cool.

John: you’re on in your Advantage Plus campaign. Yep. Well, how do I turn this off? Go away. I can’t. Good luck. You are in it now. you’re stuck. You’re in, you’re done. Yeah. Oh,

Ralph: and if you did it before your campaign score, if you went to manual immediately would like drop down like 60 or something like that, wouldn’t it?

Ralph: Yeah.

Speakers 1: Dropped.

Ralph: You already have a D on the exam,

John: man. You need

Ralph: extra credit.

John: It’s so funny ’cause even like they were trying to sell you, it’s like, Hey, you’re gonna get a hundred percent like quality score as soon as you just use ours. We’re like, oh, okay. Cool. Thanks. Like

Speakers 1: the

John: teacher’s gonna an a.

Ralph: And then, so inside here, so this is your campaign level.

Ralph: For those of you maybe listening or maybe not watching, so we’re inside the meta A platform. We’re actually showing like how this is the future. If you don’t see this yet, this is what you’re gonna be seeing within weeks. This is rolling [00:36:00] out.

John: Yeah. I have two different campaigns. One, I can still do manual.

John: The other one I am no, no longer able to. Yeah, this is, so that’s difference.

Ralph: It’s gonna be a classic episode here. Oh my God. It’s, yeah. Look at this like this is, it’s like a collector’s item

John: So now we have our campaign sales objective, which you can still control. , You have a campaign spending limit. You can launch a catalog sale. We don’t have a catalog here ’cause it’s, not a product campaign, so I can’t really turn this on. Yep. But you can kind of see Advantage Plus on like, awesome.

John: can, I advantage Plus off is, is the, you know, budget strategy, which most people actually use a Vantage Plus budget anyway. Yeah. I’m just telling you. Yeah. you can have your, you know, cost per result. You can have your high volume, you can have your bid cap, your ROAS goal is not available in this campaign.

John: We’re not eligible for it because we don’t. Do conversion value and this campaign is just, leads to sales, but you still have your same bidding strategy, your budget scheduling as scheduling, you got your augment or audience segment reporting, which you can define here, but that’s [00:37:00] ta-da.

John: There’s your technical beta buying all rolled into one now

Ralph: where’s my targeting, John?

John: Right? Look, where do we target people who like puppies, like, don’t worry. Upload a video of a dog and they’ll find puppy worry. We’ll figure it out for you.

Ralph: We know more than you do.

John: Right. And so now you’re like, okay, so here’s my ad set.

John: Ad set has a little bit more, control now. Mm-hmm. So I have my ad set, you see that I’m still kind of stuck with, you know, daddy Zuck telling me I’m, got a hundred percent. Thank you. that’s great. Thank you. And so I have my Facebook page. My performance goal is basically, you know, still kind of locked in.

John: You could do your cost cap if you’re doing it this way, that’s still available. That’s pretty much now gone with your advanced settings. It’s just, you know. Here, what do you want? And do you want me to, cap it for you? You got your budget with your normal spending limits.

John: Everything right here is still essentially the same. And then audience, this is what’s really kind of interesting, is the only thing that you really can do is you can control your yeah, I guess it’s small amount of the demographic, which is like a minimum age. And then a custom audience exclusion that is [00:38:00] now basically used also with the Vantage plus audiences as a suggestion.

John: This is now considered a suggestion. Please know that you’re like, oh, I can still exclude my existing customers. No, it is a suggestion now. That’s what it’s actually being optimized for. And you can also suggest an audience to go after if it’s optional. But meta’s like, I’m not even really going to use it.

John: I dictate by the creative now. Yeah. And then you have your replace.

Ralph: Can you, if you click on that, you’re clicking on that right now, you’re not able to affect that ad. , Suggest audience add suggestions, optional.

John: Oh yeah, I this is my options here now. Okay, got it. Got it, got it.

Ralph: Okay. Like no interest. I’m looking for if there’s any interest targeting. I’m changing glasses here, but there really is

John: nothing. And that’s what’s interesting here is you see how I can suggest an audience, and that’s where it looks like Custom Audience inclusions look very similar to Custom Audience exclusions.

John: They’re still all suggestions. I. Yeah, it’s, please don’t they say, mm, well [00:39:00] un Unless the ROAS is high. Yeah. And there’s your placements, which you know, you can use a Vantage Plus audience on your placements. This is actually a really good thing to do. Be like, Hey, I have, you know, I wanna include the feed, but I don’t really wanna have this in story.

John: It’s the kind of a boring static image, so that’s gonna just fall deaf ears kind of thing, blah, blah, blah. So, but that’s, I mean, there’s your technical media buying now in a nutshell. Like you just have to skip manual. Now,

Ralph: going back to like the custom event sort of. The tactic that we’re talking about here.

Ralph: In both of those suggestions, either inclusions or exclusions, let’s go back to the joint product. And I know it’s not pot, unfortunately. We’re very disappointing there. But anyway, so like the joint Pro, like you would upload technically, is there any advantage that you’ve seen so far? I mean, I know it’s obviously very, you know, this is early days, right?

Ralph: Just uploading your customer list for the joint. Product specifically, or would you suggest, hey, I’ll upload customers from the entire catalog because it’s using it as exclusions, but you know, it’s using it [00:40:00] as targeting to say, what do these people look like? Because especially that in combination with the CAPI custom event tactic.

Ralph: Mm-hmm. That could be potentially really powerful

John: thoughts. Yep. So I’ve been working with another company that reached out to me after they kind of, you know, heard about what’s going on. , , John, Joe is the guy, I don’t wanna say the, the name of the company, but what was interesting is he actually has a company that has a very, very, very good audience.

John: , It’s like first party data of audiences, and that company was designed to use as exclusions. , And what they mean is that you can build your whole technical media buying strategy inside of meta, and their audiences are much higher quality, much higher match rates, everything, and they’re. Their sole purpose of that company is to go in and basically allow you to not waste ad spend on existing customers and that kind of stuff.

John: He’s been seeing the same thing and his data is fantastic. , And that’s where he is like, I need something like your import strategy because if I can combine that where I can at least have a safety net of, please take my suggestion, meta about people to not [00:41:00] go after, and then we can copy towards who we want to go after.

John: We have a double whammy. So it’s not that it won’t be used, it is not dependent to be used as meta said, it is, , probabilistic, not deterministic was their verbiage. So your inclusions and exclusions are probabilistic, not deterministic, which means we can use them if we want.

John: We’re using them the way that we want to use them. To hopefully get you the result that you’re looking for. Yeah, if you wanna hear another, like I had a heart attack when I, , was looking at an email from, from a little while ago. There is a person I really like at Google who gives me kind of like the.

John: I thought you hated everybody over there. I hate everybody except for this dude. I won’t call him out because he’s like my spy and I really don’t wanna get him fired, because I don’t even know if he was supposed to share this with me. So nobody watches this show. Right. , I’m gonna actually gonna pull this up because he actually went back to the horse’s mouth, and I’m gonna take a screenshot of this so that I [00:42:00] don’t actually end up having.

John: , Having his name in here, litigation and Yeah. Right. I definitely, . I’m gonna, actually, I have to inspect element his name out real quick. So I am changing one piece in here, but it’s just to hide the person’s name ’cause I really don’t want to get this student in trouble. He is been a, great friend of mine, see how honest John Moran is since I know I really don’t wanna hurt you.

John: Ethical. Exactly. So here’s perfect. So let’s do this. , Okay, this should work. I’m gonna upload this now. And Perfect. So I’m gonna share screen. Mm-hmm. And, , lemme just do a quick. , let me do this. You know what, I’m gonna play a fun game, I would like everybody here to chat. Okay. And I’m gonna give you an option to chat. And this is just, I’m gonna take six Central. This is my, fun little company here. if you were to hop into a campaign and you grabbed like the P max feed only, just for fun.

John: ’cause we’re doing all of our advertising on meta. So I just got a feed only remarketing campaign if you hopped into here. And I said to you, [00:43:00] Ralph, people on, the podcast right now, do you want to only bid for new customers? And that means your campaign’s gonna be limited to only new customers.

John: Regardless. Regardless. Okay. Would you think that this is only bidding for new customers regardless of your bidding strategy? Please. I would love for to have the chat. I,

Ralph: I trust Google implicitly, I would say yes, of course.

Ralph: Right.

John: Well. , I connected one of the max product experts this week around you’re concerned about the accurately optimized specifically to new customers. Google’s new customer acquisition optimization versus strict exclusions. Google’s NCA goal, even when used, is an optimization strategy, not a strict only show as new customer switch.

John: I’m sorry. So now the algorithm aims to find users. It believes our new customers bases based on Google’s data. Things like search history and purchase activity. Again, however, probabilistic, not deterministic. I love that. I’m sorry. Only [00:44:00] regardless. Those are pretty strong words for,

Ralph: eh, maybe they might be No.

Ralph: It gives us a lot of leverage here, a lot of latitude I suppose, to get whoever the hell we want to make ourselves look good. Yeah. At the end of the day,

John: the majority of things that we’ve been told by these platforms is a lie. We figured that out with data suite. Yeah. Now we have action.

John: So, yeah, I wanted to call out the, third party attributions of the world, and the reason why I wanna call them out is because this is what I’ve been dealing with for years is. We know the paid media campaigns are messing up. they come in and say, your paid media campaigns are messing up.

John: I know. Mm-hmm. What we’re solving for here today is now the fix. Mm-hmm. ’cause we can have a report tell us, Hey, it’s going against warm traffic. You’re like, what do I do about it? Be like, oh, I’m just telling you it’s going against warm traffic. Okay. Excellent.

Speakers 1: Mm-hmm.

John: Now, Meta just came in and said, ha, ha, ha ha.

John: It stuck like that way permanently. Mm-hmm. Okay. So now what happens to the [00:45:00] third party attribution software companies? Well, they can tell you that it’s gonna do whatever it wants. Now what? What do you do?

Ralph: How

John: do you stop it?

Ralph: Well, it depends on the, veracity of the data itself, and it depends on the individual platform, what the third party attribution softwares do, depending on the veracity, meaning the truth of those.

Ralph: Individual platforms. How truthful actually is it by platform? How is your media mix actually working together to get to your end goal? And that varies greatly based upon platform. However, in platform, what the big pain in the ass is, is that you have to go outside of the platform to determine some of the steps that you want to take in platform.

Ralph: And what we’re doing here with this solution, with the CAPI Custom Event solution. You actually have both all in one inside the platform itself, how that will work with this new advantage. Plus how truthful this is [00:46:00] actually going to be. That you can pump all your creative in with all your ad copy and they’ll just figure it out.

Ralph: You know, the founder store is gonna be at the top and the, you know, reminder ad to card is gonna be at the bottom

John: in your shopping campaign. Your, DPA A or whatever we call ’em, DPAs, your

Ralph: DPAs or

John: whatever it happens. Want warm?

Ralph: Yeah, a hundred percent. Like, so we’re putting our faith back into that.

Ralph: Still the fact remains. It’s like, how does all of your media work together? And I’m also including like your SMS, your email, like even your SEO, some of your other platforms, tabla campaigns, if you wanna do that. How do they all work together to look at your grand total, your blended mer, like your blended roas, your MER top line.

Ralph: How is that moving your business forward and your trajectory that it’s profitable? Right. That still remains in the third party attribution softwares, you know, but the truth in those platforms varies greatly from when to the next. As you and I know,

John: well, if you’re not doing an import then and meta says, Hey, I made you 12 sales, and then, you know, you hop into Data Suite, [00:47:00] says they actually made four sales.

John: Then it’s like, that helps, but how do I fix this? Like what physical activity can I do? And that’s, where these imports have actually for meta, for Google, for everything that we’ve been importing and pushing it the right way is now. Now we actually have a solve. And so now when you happen to data suite, it says, Hey, it’s messing up.

John: You’re like, okay, we can cap the import. Well fix this year now. I don’t care what the platform data says. Obviously the cap imports are accurate, but now is going colder. Is it selling the right product? Is it engaged in the right new customers? Are they overlapping at all with other campaigns or other channels?

John: So you still have that third party attribution software that will tell you if it’s going good or bad, but now you can actually do something. Before it was like theater strategy, , dog pile strategy, like this seems to be going cold. Let’s get rid of pax. Maybe this brings Pax back.

Ralph: You know what I love about this is that this, all, might be getting a little bit too in the weeds, but I don’t care.

Ralph: The people on this call are super smart over here is that, , this now goes from , a global NAC to a product space, nac. Mm-hmm. Because your NAC per product [00:48:00] varies greatly. So I just did a demonstration on this, like we’re, you know, in the, in the beauty and wellness space, we do a fabulous job, by the way, tier 11 beauty.com is the new URL over there.

Ralph: Anyway, the point is, we have multiple customers and one in particular, so it’s a basket of products, about six different products. Their gross profitability varies from 70% down to 40%. Based upon the individual product, the global NAC for that basket is X. But if you’re selling it individually, product A at a 70% gross profit, you should not have the same NAC as Product B with a 40% gross profit.

Ralph: Like it just doesn’t make sense. So that’s why all of this getting specific to the actual action for the actual product mm-hmm. Is groundbreaking.

John: Right. and because you know, if you are gonna cost cap half your existing customers too, and half your new on products that it gets to decide what to sell.

John: Yeah. What target do you set? Well, yeah, I hope it doesn’t go over [00:49:00] 50. I don’t know.

Ralph: Yeah. Like why would you cost cap something that you have greater profitability on when you know that you can afford to acquire that customer at a greater price? Yeah. Like all things being equal to them having the same, you know, price, everything else.

Ralph: The point is, is like, why would you do that? this starts giving you more granularity and more control inside.

John: That’s safer first.

Ralph: It’s safer. Yeah,

John: much safer scale. Like that’s what we put in. We went from $25,000 to over a million dollars in spend. Our cost of acquired first time customer went down 9%.

John: However, it was selling any product you could find. Right. So my cost cap was actually incorrect. I was happy to get a new customer for under $200. Now it’s still good though. Don’t get it wrong. That’s pretty good. Now we had six SKUs and we only marketed two. Yeah. What happens if you have 6,000 SKUs? Yeah.

John: What do you do? you’re back to square one now. that’s where those per product, new and returning customers, you do get to have the visualization and optimize towards it inside of your one platform. And then you do have data suite now to say, here’s how all this is working [00:50:00] together for your top line.

Ralph: Yes. there’s still value there. A hundred percent. However,

John: I’m not saying, I’m not saying the data suites not, I’m saying it’s so accurate at telling you how bad everything is, but you, you couldn’t stop it. Yeah. Meta is taking that control away from you until now.

Ralph: I know we’ve got questions here, which I really want to get to, but this is obviously, this is kind of an exciting thing that we’ve got here.

Ralph: This is big. This is very big. Yeah, it’s a big deal. So, , I mean, you and I have been doing this for a while. Like we’ve seen a lot of changes here. My guess is that meta rolls this out. They’re not gonna roll it back like this. Is it like they rolled out changes? I can think of five off the top of my head that they rolled back because what IO 14 happened.

Ralph: Gloves. Gloves are off. Like they don’t care. Now the point is, is that. I’ll bet like the future strategy here almost goes back to a lot of the things that we were doing seven or eight years ago. Yeah. Which is granularity in your campaigns where if you can target, you create one advantage plus campaign for one specific product and one specific custom event, and it targets that based upon all the creative that’s geared towards that particular product.[00:51:00]

John: I, I almost could have paid you before this to, to. Queue me up like that. I do wanna share this point.

Ralph: Aw, don’t you just love it when a I know comes together,

John: I think we’ll probably have to get to questions the next time because this is, I know, extremely valuable to everybody because the ad sets in the campaigns are de-duping by conversion event locked in with opportunities. Now creative testing is actually a amazing. And I truly mean amazing. If we’re looking at a creative testing here on purchase immune, and then we have, a new campaign.

John: Right now it’s just, it’s using this one here as we’re testing this. But if you have a purchase immune and a purchase immune, these two campaigns now no longer share the same physical person, but they are sharing the same physical. Audience is a very important distinction, which means that’s killer, right?

John: I get what you’re saying. So, yep. Ralph and John both like tennis, but Ralph’s got that campaign. John’s got that campaign,

Ralph: right. we both like golf. I’ve got a hook. You’ve got a [00:52:00] slice. Exactly.

John: Right? And so what’s cool about this though is now my purchase immune that has 10 people and this purchase immune that may be having.

John: 30 people. ’cause I spent two grand versus six grand. Yeah, I have the same audience. But this goes back to like email marketing testing, which means I’m gonna take one third of my ad spend, do creative testing on this. When it’s good, it stays there. But now these are added to my larger campaign that spends more.

John: Yeah, same audience, different people. So if it works good with a small one, it’s almost like testing your ad headline before a massive blast. You’re like, all right, I have 10,000 people. Take the first hundred. Try that headline. Take that first second hundred, try that headline, which one wins? Blast it to 10,000.

John: That’s what gonna do is we have 10,000 people in our purchase immune audience. That meta is going after we said, okay, if there’s 10,000 people, gimme 1000. I’m gonna do some creative testing while it works. Release to the masses.

Ralph: Mm-hmm. Then what you could do is create another one, test another hook. Yeah.

Ralph: And then [00:53:00] see the same audience you might have maybe some overlap there. I mean, let’s not kid ourselves because sometimes I hook it too as a slicer. You know what I mean? I don’t know why I’m using your golf analogy, ’cause I know you don’t play sports, but anyway.

John: I know I’m great at driving ranges.

John: I could hit that thing 300 yards. What direction is unknown.

Ralph: I know. Flying everywhere. Exactly. Car windshields.

Speakers 1: Yep.

Ralph: , Well we’ve got three minutes left. I mean, I know we’re kind of a excited about this change here and a lot of things that are happening. ,

Ralph: oh, let’s go right to brain bite’s. , Question here. launching a new t-shirt campaign.

Ralph: New brand, new pixel, no conversion history, all that.

John: Yeah, I heard you mention starting with the Vantage Plus campaign with only Lys Catchall. We still recommend it in case of Tri You. I actually I always like the bottom up funnel, which is actually the first podcast I did with you, Ralph, like three years ago, was a bottom of funnel strategy where I said, start with people who are gonna buy, if you have something that people are going to buy, like an established industry, shoes, t-shirt, hats, whatever it is.[00:54:00]

John: Those people that want that now start there and then work your way up. So don’t try to figure out how to get people interested when they are ready to buy from you. There are already people ready to buy from you. Work your way up.

Ralph: Yeah. Catch the low hanging fruit first before you go to the top of the tree.

Ralph: ,

Ralph: so are you’re loading up a five or six creatives top of fundamental funnel, bottle funnel and a set with product NC event.

Ralph: How many creatives, I guess is the question?

John: You know what’s so funny is we are not even drinking our own Kool-Aid. We’ve been doing all bomb on the funnel and that’s where I think we’re limited this last week. We are changing our creative strategy to produce more creative. ’cause we’re like 10 bottom of the funnel ads, which one wins?

John: We’re like that one scale. Now we’re like, we need. We have a lot of the stuff like cus we have founder story unique hook. Like why buy your Turkey tail mushroom from us versus anybody else? What makes you special that needs to be in there like so we’re actually expanding our creative a lot in order to test this and I will have more information for you all soon when we’re done in the lab.

Ralph: , I highly recommend you go out and buy a creative agency if you’re an agency at this point in time. So anyway, I’ve never done that. Alright, Archer, the cost caps of highest volume when treating it like a YouTube [00:55:00] campaign as a funnel.

John: Yeah. Honestly, if, yeah, we’re using cost caps, not always initially and not always.

John: , It’s more of like, let’s try it without, like, which one work better. So we’re still testing, there’s no standard yet, but we’re testing, , high cost caps first.

Ralph: Okay. Right. I actually didn’t a month ago on an account because I saw some weird activity, worked well, then I turned out out. So.

Ralph: ,

Ralph: we got a little bit carried away today.

Ralph: Bring back your questions Next week. We’re gonna do this every single week, every Friday. Two 30. Yep. Two 11 live. Hopefully you guys, I think we’ll do a q

John: and a one. Maybe we’ll do like a spontaneous like Monday or Tuesday call where we just go through q and a for an hour. That’d be fun. We should. We should.

John: Although there

Ralph: was so much news this week, we

John: couldn’t help ourselves.

Ralph: All right. So make sure that wherever you listen to podcasts, you leave a rating and a review. We really do appreciate that. Uh, we’re in the top five now, uh, very consistently, especially on all the AI searches. So we really do appreciate everyone listening and leaving ratings and reviews. We take your criticism to heart.

Ralph: By the way, I responded to a guy on Spotify this morning [00:56:00] who gave some criticism and it’s, it’s good to hear like we, we are here to serve you, the listener. So if there’s some stuff that you want to hear or you wanna listen to, or you maybe don’t like. Yeah, I have my notifications open for Spotify, so, uh, definitely check it out over there.

Ralph: We’re, that’s almost a platform that’s actually more popular now than on Apple. So wherever you list the podcasts, check it out. Leave us a rating, leave us a review, make some comments. Uh, we’d love to know what you think here, especially on today’s show. This is pretty cutting edge stuff, and we’re gonna continue to have these types of shows to, uh, keep you abreast of all the information, all the changes that are happening on all these crazy platforms.

Ralph: So, uh, all the show notes, all the links, everything that we mentioned here in today’s show is over@perpetualtraffic.com. Make sure that you do watch today’s episode if you were listening to it. Another hint, hint, reminder, uh, that’s over@perpetualtraffic.com slash YouTube. If you wanna subscribe to our Tier 11 live to do every Friday, 2:30 PM [00:57:00] Eastern, myself and John usually.

Ralph: You can subscribe to that over at two eleven.com/youtube, but you already knew that, so. Alright, thanks everyone. Till next show. Let me end that different, Kevin.

Ralph: All right, well that’s it from here Until next show. See ya.