Meta Ads are evolving—and if you’re still clinging to Advantage+ Shopping campaigns, you’re already behind. In this high-impact episode, Ralph Burns and John Moran pull back the curtain on their $4M+ test using Meta’s new Advantage+ Sales Campaigns, breaking down what’s working right now in the face of Meta’s June 25th switchover. You’ll hear why “one campaign, one ad set, 50 ads” is more than just a tactic—it’s the future. Whether you’re running a low-volume brand or managing high-ticket spends, this episode is your tactical field guide to staying ahead of Meta’s automation curve. Plus, discover how John’s 3-month test is outperforming traditional structures—and how you can apply it today.
Chapters:
- 00:00:00 – Kicking Things Off (and Yep, Ralph Has COVID)
- 00:00:34 – Why This Episode Might Just Blow Your Mind
- 00:00:51 – The Underdog Ad Account That Surprised Everyone
- 00:01:20 – What You Really Need to Know About Advantage+ Sales
- 00:02:02 – Meta’s Big Shift: Are You Ahead of the Curve?
- 00:03:36 – Enter John Moran: The Ad Scientist in Flannel
- 00:05:32 – The Death of Advantage+ Shopping (and What’s Replacing It)
- 00:07:09 – The $4M Test: Here’s What Actually Worked
- 00:13:59 – Cracking the Code on Creative + Targeting Combos
- 00:21:02 – Scaling Smart: What the Data’s REALLY Telling Us
- 00:31:48 – Raw, Real, and Revolutionary Marketing Tactics
- 00:32:49 – The Feeder Strategy: Turning Cold Leads into Cash
- 00:33:44 – Ask Us Anything: Let’s Get Tactical
- 00:34:01 – What the Heck Is “Vibe Marketing”? (And Why It Matters)
- 00:35:22 – Why Creative Isn’t Just King — It’s the Whole Kingdom
- 00:39:48 – Plug-and-Play Tactics for Ecomm, SaaS, and Beyond
- 00:46:40 – Campaign Surgery: What to Fix, What to Ditch
- 00:59:54 – Wrap-Up, Resources, and What to Do Next
LINKS AND RESOURCES:
- Tier 11 Jobs
- Perpetual Traffic on YouTube
- Tiereleven.com
- Mongoose Media
- Perpetual Traffic Survey
- Perpetual Traffic Website
- Follow Perpetual Traffic on Twitter
- Connect with Lauren on Instagram and Connect with Ralph on LinkedIn
Thanks so much for joining us this week. Want to subscribe to Perpetual Traffic? Have some feedback you’d like to share? Connect with us on iTunes and leave us a review!
Mentioned in this episode:
Unbounce – Code PT10offunes and leave us a review!
READ THE TRANSCRIPT:
Killer Meta Advantage+ Case Study: 1 Campaign 1 Ad set 50 Ads…Whaa?
Ralph: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Perpetual Traffic Podcast. This is your host, Ralph Burns, and the founder and CEO of tier 11. Recovering from COVID, if you can believe that. Yes, I caught COVID when I was in Italy, so I apologize in advance for the scratchiness of the voice. Today’s episode, you’ll actually hear me right before I took the test.
My wife, who still has tests around the house, suggested that I take a COVID test when I thought it was just sort of allergies. There’s just sort of the flu. But anyway, COVID is alive and well, ladies and gentlemen, it really sucks. So anyway, today’s show is, without the scratchy voice. Take that away.
This is a breakthrough show that we did last Friday, right before I contracted COVID, uh, with John and myself. And I had an idea that we were gonna rebroadcast this over perpetual traffic ’cause it’s so good. This is a case study that John did for a low volume under 10 KA month in spend ad account running [00:01:00] only meta and only Google brand.
So basically it’s all meta. And it’s a test for new Advantage plus shopping campaigns. I wanna say Advantage plus shopping. It’s basically Advantage Plus sales campaigns. You have to get out of the habit of saying Advantage plus shopping. But anyway, advantage Plus sales in the automated setting. Now, a big newsworthy item here is that Advantage Plus for sales, for shopping for all the stuff that you might see right now inside Ads Manager for meta.
Is going away June 25th. So that is just a week or so away as of this recording here. So the point is, this stuff is coming and this is, I haven’t seen much in the way of training on this. This is the reason why we’re doing so many of these shows to, to arm you with as much intelligence as possible.
’cause John’s been testing this for three months now and he’s got $4 million in ad spend [00:02:00] under his belt. And. He has found out that Advantage plus sales, which is the new automated way in which you’re gonna be running ads inside meta, is not as intimidating as you would think. And meta is fulfilling a lot of those promises that it did promise years and years ago of just let the algorithm, I’m doing the air quote thing here, just let the algorithm do its work.
And this is one campaign, one ad set. With 50 ads, they actually uploaded 57 ads, but only 50 actually show. So you’ll get to see in real time here exactly how this campaign started to work and what kind of CPAs, what kind of NC. Everyone used to call it cost per acquisition. We now call it N cac. That is the cost to acquire a new customer.
So as well as cac, which is cost to acquire customer, which is returning and new. So anyway, pretty groundbreaking results here. So I highly recommend you listen to this, but then also head on over to where YouTube channel, which is quite popular these days. Um, and subscribe to that channel [00:03:00] over@perpetualtraffic.com slash YouTube.
So without further ado, John and yours truly take it away guys.
today is gonna be a no except cool episode. It’s no exception.
’cause we’re gonna be revealing some super cool stuff with meta. Yeah. As we talked about here a couple of times. Yep. Recently, I don’t know what you guys talked about the last couple weeks when I was in Italy, but, um, anyway, we’re getting back to basics here. Back to Meta, and if you don’t know who John is, John Moran, who is here on the show, flannel shirt guy, John’s sort of known as a Google Ads guy.
It’s like you’re sort of like, that was your thing, but mm-hmm. I’ve always said like, John is so much more than just a Google Ads guy. Go. John is the consummate marketer who understands all platforms and how they all work together and all the stuff that’s not paid too.
John: Yeah.
Ralph: So when we were talking about getting [00:04:00] together and you coming over to tier 11 and joining forces with us, I was just like, yeah, I mean, he is not gonna be doing any meta stuff.
And you’re like, oh yeah, I’ve been experimenting with meta. I’ve figured it all out. And now you’ve figured out stuff that even like some of the top media buyers in the space are still yet to figure out. But you’re actually testing it out, trialing it out. We’re seeing results right now, which is super cool.
And that’s why we do these shows to, uh, lift the veil, you know, educate, come home now, educate on what’s actually going on in the crazy ad lab here, which I don’t know if we’ve done our rebranding yet. But
John: anyway, we’re hopping back into hop pick into the RV with Walter White into the meth lab and yep, we’re gonna, we’re gonna start doing some cool stuff.
Ralph: Yep. And that is the outgrowth, that’s what we show here. So anyway, so, uh, today’s show is all about meta, if I’m not mistaken.
John: Yeah. So meta, it’s, it’s interesting. I’ve talked to some fairly large companies, recently and it’s kind of shocking how they will most often. [00:05:00] Not necessarily believe, like they’re meta reps or maybe, I guess it’s like adoption’s slow.
I don’t know why. and I think that’s sometimes why everything is like so weird and shocking when something comes out and everyone has to change strategies. ’cause everyone’s like, I’ve been using this strategy for two years. I like it. I don’t wanna change. I’m gonna fight against the current. and that kind of seems to be like the SOP.
So what I like to do is try to deconstruct it and figure out how to leverage it. And that’s kind of what I, my specialty is, right? So if you have not, been aware by June 25th is the deadline where what meta is trying to achieve is pushing everybody into one. Campaign type, which is Advantage Plus sales, used to be called Advantage Plus Shopping.
Um, you had manual campaigns and Advantage Plus sales is kind of the only thing that they will allow you to create. Now. You still have your targeting options, even though they’re considered, optional. And then you have your exclusions, which are also kind of considered optional. [00:06:00] So essentially meta’s moving towards what they call creative targeting.
So I’ve been testing this a bunch, but what I wanted to provide today is a real locked in experiment. So we only run Google Brand. for them, we’re only on one campaign type,in meta. We’ve only been really running meta since January 1st. So I have like a really good locked in use case and I’ve kind of deconstructed how I believe Meta’s recommendation of a one campaign, one ad set, all creative campaign type that they want us to all use called Event plus sales.
And I’ll tell you actually, some of their. Legitimately smart, accurate reasons as to why. and I think that once we start to understand the why, it makes a lot people a lot easier to adopt. Mm-hmm. Because if I had to say, Hey, remember, or forget everything you under, uh, you know about meta and do it this way, you are probably gonna gimme a bit old, big old middle finger.
Because it’s like, I, this works for me. But [00:07:00] things are transitioned. We are right now in the transition period. And what the transition period looks like is, I’m gonna share a screen here and I’m gonna pull up a different account and I wanna show you something that is actually crazy.
Ralph: So this is the account that we were talking about earlier today. This is mm-hmm. Small ad spend. Just starting. So one of the things, no, this has
John: been running for at least six months already, but Okay. We’re just, we just started the new way. Yep. Got it. Got it. Mm-hmm. But still small ad spend, what?
Couple thousand
Ralph: dollars a month? We spent
John: six grand all year. I mean, it’s only a thousand dollars a month. So I like this because I can really see a lot of big movement because everything’s isolated. If I was having like 16 campaigns, $500,000 in apen, a million returning customers, little tests kinda get lost in the weeds.
Yeah. So I like testing a little when I can know that this is the only thing that could have moved that number over there. So at least I have some really accurate testing that I can extrapolate into larger accounts.
Ralph: Plus, a lot of people that are watching this, [00:08:00] they might not have accounts that are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars a day like we do.
Right. So like this is like if you’re just starting or you have a moderate ad spend under 10 grand, this is a great case study for that, but also it allows you to really get granular and see exactly what’s going on. And that’s the part about this
John: and we’ve most often figured out that what works for the really large companies kind of won’t work for the small, but what works for the small always works for the large.
So it kind of covers the whole encompassing uh, that’s great. That’s a
Ralph: great point by the way. Yeah.
John: Yeah. Because
Ralph: if
John: you
Ralph: could exemplify it here, just imagine what it could do at massive scale.
John: Yeah, and we actually doubled the budget this week and I already have something that can show for that. So it’s cool.
I have a nice, you know, nice big test, but we got 20 minutes. I’m dive right into it before we go into q and a still, I’ll go slow and methodical, but I want to kind of point out some really important things. So if you’re running a meta account, if you click on the, the create button and you click sales, if your account has not switched over [00:09:00] yet, you can still act like it has because it is is not forcing you that way, but it still can operate that way.
If you have not switched over when you click sales and hit click, click continue, you’ll still get the option of, would you like to do an A DB shopping, which is now turning into ADB sales or a manual campaign and you’re going back to your manual setup. Mm-hmm. However, if you are in an account that has switched over, oops, lemme just reopen that close window.
If you’re in an account that has switched over, you click create. You click sales, and then it waits like five seconds longer and skips the manual creation and locks you right into Advantage Plus only, and you are. Good to go. Gave you a hundred percent. All right, cool. You’re good to go. So I’m just gonna, I wanted to show that so people are like, no, there’s no switch.
I still see it. You’re lying. This is where the transition period’s exactly. It will be here. Just, just trust us.
Ralph: They drop dead. They have not been very unclear on when that drop date is. This is typical meta, but it will be within the next couple of months. I mean, you sort of have in some, in insider information [00:10:00] here.
Is that
John: accurate? Yeah, I, I, I know an engineer and they said basically by the 25th, just, just expect that. I’m like, okay. So we got about basically, you know, 20 or 19 days left. so this is what’s nice. You get a couple week I start, so this is what the campaign type metal wants you to use, which is the a DB campaign.
So a DB sales is all encompassing. It could be lead generation, it can be DPA ads for shopping. It could be your videos, motion, graphics, gifts, everything. So it’s all in one campaign. Mm-hmm. So I said, okay, let’s leverage it. Let’s figure out how this works. let’s. Deconstruct it and figure out how to scale it.
So what’s interesting is this is since January 1st, so since January 1st, all the way up until three days ago, and I did three days ago, so I can match spend. In my example, you’ll see that we had a $4,000 worth of, you know, our standard, standard type of type of campaign. We’re selling 120, $130 products or gloves, and we’re getting $42 in-app CPA.
All right? Not bad. Then we ran a [00:11:00] Mother’s Day sale. In the Mother’s Day sale. We spent another, you know, a thousand dollars and got $33 CPAs. Good. And then we were testing out the way that Meta wants us to. So we spent yet another a thousand dollars, and now we’re getting $13 CPAs. Much better than the 40, better than almost three times as good as our Mother’s Day sale.
And this thing is only been running for about like three weeks. So this campaign type is utilizing what Meta is going to be forcing everyone into in creative targeting. So I actually, in this campaigns ad set or, or even the campaign itself, we basically are just optimizing for website purchases, purchase event, standard event.
We do not do any sort of CAPI imports, no cost cap goal. we have our engaged and existing customers. I don’t have an existing customer cap. I’m just letting this thing run wide open, no targeting, no exclusions, and let’s see what this thing can do. Beautiful. And it asks us to put all of our [00:12:00] creative in one big ad asset, and we have 57 your capped at 50 ads.
So that’s the most you can run at once Now. What we wanted to do with this one is understand how meta is working. So what I’m looking at here is May 14th through May 20th, this is the first week we launched. And what I noticed is these ads, we were not spending that much. I have my spend column here, I have my results here, and I have my cost per result.
So we have some campaigns that are spending 59 and some campaigns that, or ads that are spending 59 and some ads that are spending $6, but now we are still getting results on them. However, we’re seeing the typical, you give it too many ads, it likes two or three, and then it’s gonna force spend on it.
Our normal SOP is like, okay, that’s overspent. Pause that one. Let’s redistribute, let’s run a BL.finding out why. The reason why. We shouldn’t be doing that is because is kind of what I figured out there this last week and I’ll share the results. So in the [00:13:00] first week when we look at the compare attribution settings, we can see that the ad spend is being delivered most often to the ads that have click attributed conversions.
Makes sense, right? View and ga, a view view is good, but we want clicks and you’ll get some onesie twosies every now and then if you scroll down. But obviously you can see the majority of the ad spend is spending on people who are, are clicking. Mm-hmm. And then I said, okay, if that is the case, then what I should see the week afterwards is much more click attributed over here.
’cause here’s my hypothesis, I believe Meta is gonna spend the most amount of money at where they see instantaneous success from the people who are clicking. Sure. But the people who are not buying after they click, they’re being shown other ads in that ad set. The reason why Meta wants all ads in one ad set.
And the reason why it wants creative to do the targeting is ’cause it’s trying to build a little mini funnel. And [00:14:00] if you all remember our, uh, I think a few weeks ago when I shared the 10 pieces of creative that Meta wants us to, the meta wants us to, to utilize, which is why here in the, in the tier 11 slack, this is where Meta, this is back on May 9th.
So we’re already basically a month after that. But it wants all of these pieces of creative inside of one ad set so that it can go through and start to tell a story. Here’s who we are. So why we’re different. It’s what the product is. It’s what people believe about us. This is the features and benefits of it.
This is face camera, which is a different campaign type whitelisting. Other people are even saying we’re amazing. This is positioning test inside of like the ecosystem and also UGC. So they don’t all have a particular reason why you would create them, but meta wants you to have content diversification.
So the content diversification we believe is because of this rule or this theory here, that it’s going to start to show ads to the users who are clicking and say, Hey, you’re clicking, you’re buying the people who are not buying. Did you know all of this other things like, Hey, this. [00:15:00] after a thousand days, this is what the glove looks like.
This is, you know, how we sew our gloves twice. This is, you know, the, a cool picture that ended up working. This is how we actually, this is where our plant is made into the United States, right here in Vermont since 1920. So now you’re like, oh, alright. These are, this are pretty cool things. Like it’s not just like 30% off, 20% off sale.
What about today? Come on, we are educating you and that’s what you’re getting
Ralph: awareness a about this product, which is a premium priced product. Yeah, you’re going to get some clicks and buys. Those are probably people that are warm traffic audiences, probably aware of the solution in this particular case, this particular type of glove.
Yeah. However, like you would expect meta to go out and capture them immediately, which is what we’re seeing right here. However, not everyone’s gonna be like that. Not everyone’s like in market to buy. The vast majority are in that, that zone of indifference. Yeah. I don’t really know much about it.
You know, I’ve got good gloves right now, you know, I don’t really need new gloves. I [00:16:00] need to be educated.
John: Yeah. And it’s, it’s, it’s the funnel again. it’s the, you got cold anymore.
Ralph: It’s, it’s the same thing. I’m not explaining anything groundbreaking here, but we’re just saying like, yeah, not everybody is ready to buy, right?
So how are you gonna expand that market? And Meta has been seeing this for a long time. Like, oh, just throw ’em all in and we’ll figure it all out.
John: Yeah. It hasn’t really worked up until right now. Yeah. and what’s funny is Meta’s so smart because if I hop onto to Meta, or if I hop onto Instagram and I see nothing but 10% off, 30% off bogo, I’m like, now it’s just like, I’m just getting the crap kicked outta me.
I’m not actually discovering anything. I’m just getting sale ads. So they don’t want that. They don’t want the user experience to drop. They want you to learn, grow, and engage.
Ralph: They’re assuming that you’re ready to buy. Like that’s a bottom of funnel, middle of funnel, whatever you want, whatever you wanna call it.
It’s like people don’t necessarily do what you want them to do. Like there is gonna be top of funnel people that are gonna buy on that, but the vast majority probably are not. Yeah, right. So this all makes sense.
John: so then we said, okay, if I see a whole bunch of [00:17:00] one day engaged view conversions, it means that the people who are engaging here that are now being shown ads, I would expect if this is what Meta is doing, I expect to now start to see click engage conversions over here in this column, which means they are clicking and buying.
The people who have not bought are now being shown other ads and they are view engage conversions. But I should see more click engage conversions next week. So far I see one here and nothing else. So now let’s fast forward the next week. Alright, so
Ralph: if you’re following along, you’re hearing the audio of this what?
What we just showed, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. I forgot. May 14th through the 20th. Inside meta, you’ve got two ads, which are basically scooping up all the bottom of funnel conversions probably. ’cause they’re from the warm traffic audience. But all the other ads, the other 50 that you have in there, you uploaded 57.
Mm-hmm. And only 50 would show the other ones are all getting some kind of engagement, but not really any click conversions yet.
John: Only engaged or so only view conversions. Right. Like [00:18:00] remarketing almost. Yeah. Sounded like kinda like remarketing. And so I said okay, that if that remarketing of new users is gonna work well, I hope they start converting.
and so I’m expecting to see at the week afterwards, so it’s fast forward. One week we went from 14th to 20th. Now we’re gonna look at the 21st through the 27th. And now we see. Exactly what we were expecting. Now we’re starting to see the same ads in the next week. Not only do my first two have still click engage conversions, but now I have, I went from one to 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.
I have a kind of five rows of click engage conversions. But if we scroll down now further down, I’m seeing none down here still, and I’m seeing, I’m seeing really nothing in the reach. Which means if I look at the, the people who are spending less than like $3, I’m not really seeing anything. Mm-hmm. And that makes sense. They’re only spent less than a dollar on majority of the ads. Again, we would say, Hey, pause those.
we would start to kill things that aren’t spending. However, if we look at the entirety of this campaign all the way up until [00:19:00] yesterday, this is what it looks like now. Now every row has at least one click engage conversion to 7 5 34 5. And now I’m seeing seven day click conversions roll in on almost every ad, whether we spent $600 on it or 18 bucks.
Now if I scroll down from here, I. I’m now sub $10, but I’m still seeing a click Engage conversion. I’m click Engage conversion, a click a click, a click all the way down to where I’m spending now, a dollar 21. Mm-hmm. I get a view, engage conversions. If I spend two bucks, I can see a Click Engage conversion, but it might have taken 28 days.
Aha. We start seeing the x and y axis of the longer amount of time and the more ads, the more engagement you’re getting on them. Yeah. Uh, every, every media buyer’s, like three days. If it’s not spending, kill it like we are fighting against what Meta is trying to do. So now I have, it’s interestingly, I now have a bunch of click engage conversions.
And because it’s going down in my [00:20:00] spend, my CPA for these ads here, my cost per result is 15 bucks, 14 bucks, 12 bucks, 12 bucks, 15 bucks, 17 bucks, seven bucks, 19 bucks, three bucks, 18 bucks, all the way down into like 5, 4, 3, 3, 2, 1, 1. Okay. So why is it now that the campaign that has all the ads is now actually beating my other campaign?
I ran for five months trying to optimize, and this is beating it by 75% less cost per acquisition. Okay. So now let’s say fine. Fine, John. Okay. It’s not at cap import. I have no idea if these are cold. I have no idea if these are returning. Prove it. Okay. So I said, you know what? I’m gonna throw I, you know, I was gonna ask you that.
I know, right? ’cause I would ask you,
Ralph: you’re just recycling old users. People have bought, I don’t know, one of their other products at one point in time, John. Exactly. So I said, alright, new customers, they can’t possibly be. Exactly.
John: So I said, you know what? Let’s test this. Let’s take it from a amount spent of $45 a day and let’s crank it [00:21:00] up to $150 a day.
So let’s triple the budget in a week. So I see my amounts spent go up in this last 14 days. You’re a gambling man. I am. So I see my, I see my conversions kind of go through. This is after Memorial Day, all of a sudden, boop, pop right back up. So now I’m having the best day, according to Meta, the last three days that I haven’t spending the highest last three days in my campaign of brand.
This is the last 14 days I about this campaign. So my brand campaign, then my brand campaign. I went from spending 14 bucks to make two 50 and then it peaked to $129 to make 1400.
Ralph: How is that possible? That’s over on Google. They’re not related. John. I know, right? Says Ralph. Exactly.
John: So now at this last 14, exactly right, so last 14 days, I have gone up and increased my cost from two 80 to five 30.
So I spent an additional $300 and made an additional 2200 bucks. Okay, so if I’m pushing in a [00:22:00] cold, I should see more branded conversions. And then let’s check the week over week. New customers. We went from 5 23 to 5 29. We had a hundred new customers, 104, 5 23, and 5 29. That is 5 23. 2 5 29. Okay. Then let’s look at the next week of five 30 to six five, which is now the 5 32 6 5, where we scaled up also in Google Ads.
Five 30 to six five when we saw our brand starting to capture. And now we have 157 new customers. So we went from 104 to 157. That is 1 0 4. That is 53 more new customers. New customers, 53 more new. Our total investment is $300 more, plus an additional, I’d say like maybe a thousand dollars more or, yeah, probably about a thousand dollars more ish.
Mm-hmm. Uh, lemme just check last seven days compared, [00:23:00] yeah. Oh, so three 50. So we did seven 50. Yeah. Okay. So three 50 plus three. So 650 more dollars total in six 50. Soup to nuts. Everything. The $650 in. That brought us 53 more new customers. Six 50 divided by 53 is $12 26 cents. 26 cents. And if we look at our analytics of our A OV, we have $110 A OV.
That’s not too bad. No. So that’s basically almost like an incremental 10 x on a tiny little company. Any if
Ralph: you don’t, I don’t know how else
John: to prove this.
Ralph: It’s very clear to me. But I think that a lot of the viewers might have to watch this a couple of times. But the bottom line is this is like you proved with by sarcastic comments like John, you’re just recycling your old customers.
You proved to be on a shadow of a doubt using the CRM. And they don’t have data suite, they don’t have CAPI import, they don’t have anything. This is early stage stuff. This is just really relying on literally like [00:24:00] tiny ad spend on Google. Yeah. But a little bit more ad spend, obviously on meta. But meta is the one that’s driving everything forward here.
And you proved it by going into the back end to Shopify. Say, these are new customers that I’m getting for $12 and 26 cents. Was that what it was?
John: Yeah, $12 and 26 cents. And when I look at even one more additional layer of fun, if we look inside of the first click channel in the last seven days, as an example.
Mm-hmm. Facebook has 11. Google paid as 30. Yep. So 11. And I’m only running brand, so it’s kind of interesting to see 30 and five, but we have 30 plus 11 and then direct 64. And the week before that we had,eight and 16. So, and not, and not even direct. And you can see there’s not a massive amount of existing customers.
Okay. Right. there’s, there’s nothing. We actually had more returning customers than I think we had new in like Klaviyo, which is, makes a lot of sense. So it’s kind of cool that I can even see all the way down to the [00:25:00] sub levels. The only thing that are growing our Facebook paid and Google paid, which I know is non-brand Facebook and branded Google, they both lifted, I put three 50 in each and then got $12 new customers at 60 in the first week of testing this.
I mean, I, I an A OV
Ralph: of what? 125? A
John: hundred. 109? Yeah.
Ralph: 109. Okay.
John: Yeah. And these gloves will last 20 years. Like we don’t really have a lot of returning customers. They might buy another pair like once in a while, but it’s not just like something people are coming back every month and subscribing it. This is like, I’m making a hundred dollars sale.
The $120 sales, $110 sales with $12 nacs, and I can double the budget in a week. All with one campaign, one ad set, no targeting, no exclusions, all of the ads, and let this thing run wild. What’s an allowable NAC for this one? Oh, 45.
Ralph: 45. So you are, you’re four times below that, so you have massive amounts to discuss.
So that’s the top end. That includes gross profitability, some [00:26:00] opex, and then it, desired margin. Do you add that in there as well? Desired net profitability. Not yet.
not yet. He not that.
John: So I’m helping the son who inherited the company from his father. Um, got it. And so sorting it out out, those are things that, what’s nice is this is a very, very efficiently run business because it’s been in business for like, 20 years.
Right. It’s never really gone digital though. So that’s what’s kind of nice is I some of the, we’re kind starting from I know, don’t you
Ralph: think?
John: Yeah. So like their costs and their, their opex and all that stuff has been really hammered out to like no ad spend. So if I come in and make sure that incremental cost is costing the company to acquire more is very small.
It’s gorgeous. Those are some of the most exciting companies to work
Ralph: with. I know, in my opinion, warning, like you have a very successful business offline. Mm-hmm. You’ve proven the fact that the market wants what you have. Yeah. Okay. But you have yet to break into the online world. There’s, there’s not that many businesses that are in that situation, but you would be surprised at how many actually [00:27:00] are.
Yeah. But the point is, is that. You’ve already proven out the offer. Like the offer is the big thing. It’s like, does the market actually want it? So this is much different than, Hey, this is a startup. Hey, we’re gonna try and sell these things online. The first time ever, we don’t have any sales, we don’t have any sales history.
John: Yeah.
Ralph: You, you’ve got some history here of, of what products sell the best.
John: Yeah. And if we look at the top line too, like you’re saying, this is last 30 days, year over year. you can’t fake 120 or 130% more orders and 115% more, you know, 120% more gross sales. 113% more net sales. Yeah, I mean it’s cranking.
So I mean, double the company mean every week.
Ralph: Yeah. I mean, unless you have horrible profitability and massive cost of goods sold, like 120 A OV with a $12 inac, you’re
John: winning. I know, and it’s so funny ’cause it’s like we have to sell $120 gloves and it’s like, but I’m gonna give you 50 bucks a day on me.
I go figure it out. And it’s like, and that’s what’s funny is like this crap is working. If we [00:28:00] just understand the platforms and how to leverage ’em, not fight, but think about that.
Ralph: go on Amazon, search for work gloves. Like you can buy work gloves for like 10 bucks, 12 bucks. Yeah. Oh yeah. Like the Ace hardware down the street.
Walmart
John: Depot. Exactly
Ralph: like you’re talking about a 10 x premium. You’re doing it with just a 50 different ads, in essence, creating a digital funnel inside a meta campaign for Advantage plus shopping, or Advantage plus sales. I keep saying yeah. A SC, it’s advantage plus sales now.this is actually what they’ve been promising for years and now you’re actually starting to see it.
And this is cool because it’s like on such a small scale and like the scalability of this account is insane.
John: yeah. I mean even the hammock company that I referenced sometimes we’ve been doing this same, the same methodology for the hammock company. And just to reiterate, ’cause I think this is how I shared how to do creative testing in this new environment.
So I think that was important for everyone to see.
Ralph: [00:29:00] Yeah.
John: And that, remember that example? I don’t remember. It was back in April. Um, yeah. since then. Again, we have not deviated from the strategy because I believe that longevity is important. And this, for a company
Ralph: that sells very, very highend similar kind of like bespoke hammocks, four and
John: $5,000 Hamms.
Yeah. Four or
Ralph: $5,000 hammocks. You’re not gonna buy, there’s no, I mean you’re, I guess you can go back and buy another one, but like the A OV is the LTV, right?
John: Right. Basically. Right. Yeah. And so, and so what we saw is since the April 16th, the June 5th, I’ve scaled this account 87%. I’ve added $115,000 in ad spend in the last, no, April of May, but basically about two and a half months.
So 115 grand, two and a half months. The 115 grand materialized into approximately, $900,000. pretty good. 101%, up to 1.7 million, 115,000 into 900,000 in sales, is
Ralph: [00:30:00] what you’re
John: saying. Yeah, well let’s just do this. What was it before? I need, actually I’m not good. Oh, February 24th or April 15th. So let’s just look at February 24th to April 15th.
It was seven 14 and now. So seven 14 up to, uh,
1720 1 million bucks.
Ralph: A million bucks. Okay. Yeah.
John: Add a million dollars into this account and we can see there’s the vista up 119%. There’s the throne up. 158%, half million dollars in throne sales. This 5,000 hammock. And we did it all with these four campaigns. Simple, but also cap be import on these correct.
Cap be import for first click. Exactly. So there’s a little bit more advanced in there, but I mean, if you’re like, Hey, gimme a million dollars more in the next, two and a half months, it’s like, I’m gonna do it with two campaigns. You’re like, you’re an idiot. You know, it’s like funnel build and, and da da da.
And that’s working against what Meta wants. Let [00:31:00] me do level one through level five traffic,
Yeah.
Ralph: Just like, it, it, that was the way seven or eight years ago, but not anymore. that was the way up to last week.
Good point. And there’s, there’s so many media buyers that are still doing it that way, which, that’s okay, but because this is a relatively new thing, like there is literally like a funnel inside of the headset.
John: Yeah. not all accounts have even switched over to what we’ve been testing for months now.
But hopefully if you’re, you know, a big fan of us and know that we’re actually the best digital markers in the history of the world, you’re already got, you’re already there. it’s, you know, I’m just kidding.
Ralph: It’s sort of, sort of
John: a given.
Ralph: it’s like, no, we already were John.so I get into some q and a.
here’s the thing is like, we’ll definitely get to the q and a, but this is the stuff that’s being tested and then shown. A lot of this is, I have not seen this anywhere else. It, if you try and look for this anywhere on the inter on the interwebs, you’re gonna be hard pressed to find any sort of results like this.
I think this is the [00:32:00] kind of video that’s you’re gonna look back on a year from now. Like, wow. Like that was so bleeding edge. Yeah. And that’s what we try and, not to like pump up our tires here, but I mean this is the real stuff. This is actually how it works. But I mean, as an old school, meta media Meyer, like this has been something that’s been promised for so long and it’s just so cool to see it actually happen.
And it’s like pro, you’re proving it. And you’re not even doing it like any like fancy tricks, like cap import, a feeder strategy or there’s no data suite on these accounts. Like all of that stuff is like, it just works. I do a feeder
John: strategy on Yellow Leaf, but the small one on yellow, I can’t, I don’t, I can’t afford feeder strategy.
Yeah, not yet.
Ralph: You don’t need,
John: well, you don’t need to. No, but it was funny, like you said, there’s nothing out there. I, I did some hunting around for fun and this is, I, I, I got nerd giggly just ’cause, you know, I’m a big nerd myself, but there was, there’s some people out there that are even doing this.
Like this is a person from Grow My Ads two weeks ago. And he is like, there’s this guy named John Morey. He lost a feeder strategy. He is like, how I scaled 109% 22 [00:33:00] days using feeder strategy. And he did like a, a 12 minute video on everything that I taught this guy how to do. I’ve never met this guy before.
Yeah. He just gave me a shout out on YouTube and I was like, I’m famous. Yeah. And it’s fun for me ’cause I’m a, I’m a nerd. You shoulda have Google alerts for your name. I know, right? That’s a probably good idea. But it’s interesting. It’s like, it’s it when you have the people I’ve never met before, popping out testimonial videos on how it’s working for them.
It’s like, this is the leadership that, that we can provide. Yeah. You can’t get this anywhere else.
Ralph: Sorry to say it, but it is what it is. Like, you know, we’re just stating a fact here, John. Yeah. So anyway, pretty excited to be sharing this stuff with you every single week. So we’ve got a bunch of, uh, questions here you wanna get into?
Questions We’re 3 0 5 right now. Let’s do it. 25 minutes of questions. If you want to get a question asked, definitely drop it in the comments. let’s get going. Yeah. Brain Bite has a question. Hey John, what’s your take on Vibe Marketing seems like the new buzzword everywhere. It’s just rebranded, emotional marketing or something actually different would love
John: your perspective.
I’ve never heard of Vibe [00:34:00] Marketing, but I can probably, you know, disseminate what they’re trying to do there. what that would kind of tell me is that the, I would imagine it’s more on the creative side where you’re talking about happy vibes and making them feel very good. you should have an element to that.
I call it philanthropy. So like, if your company ever does good for something, you wanna include that. so it’s like, so people feel good about purchasing or engaging or making sure that they’re working with companies they like, but I would like to learn more about the vibe Marketing. I’ve just never actually heard of it yet.
Ralph: Vibe Marketing is a term describing a new approach to digital marketing that leverages AI to create and scale campaigns quickly and efficiently focusing on emotional resonance and speed. I was way off. Well, no, no, you weren’t too far off. Emotional resonance and speed.
John: Okay.
Ralph: You know? Yeah.
John: It makes sense.
I think, you know what’s interesting though is that’s kind of what we’re seeing too. It’s like, if I can make you feel warm and fuzzy about buying this product, you’ll buy it.
Ralph: Well, exactly like what we talked about. Like you uploaded 50 different ads with 50 different messages. You don’t know which message is gonna [00:35:00] resonate with which person at what time.
Like we used to sort of creative segment it out. Exactly. Creative is absolutely everything. Yeah. that’s why we, you know. Bought a creative agency like Merge a creative agency, the best one that we could find on the planet. ’cause we know creative is driving all this. Yes. We’re talking about media buying strategies.
We didn’t even talk about the creative that’s sort of behind the scenes here.
John: right. So super, super important. That’s, and that’s what’s cool is we’re having internal meetings about this so that when we do launch a new client or we launch a rebranding or when we launch new ads, it’s with this new model, like we’re already up to speed on what Meta wants us to leverage while people’s accounts haven’t even changed over yet.
Ralph: Yeah.
John: It’s insane.
Ralph: Yeah. It’s emotional resonance I think really with just vibe marketing is all about. Yeah. Anyway, good question. Uh, John Moran, student from Spain. Hey. Hey. Hey John. I’m planning to use your one campaign, one ad set multiple ad strategy for plastic surgery clinics in Spain. Any recommendations how I should approach it?
John: Yes. Uh, you know what’s funny is the multiple ad strategy, [00:36:00] your CPM is gonna dictate what. Level of the funnel that you’re going to engage with. So when you’re talking about plastic surgery, super important what you said there, by
Ralph: the way.
Like when you launch that campaign, you’ll see some ccpm CPMs will be vastly different.
Mm-hmm. The ones that convert immediately are gonna be your higher CPMs and the ones that are sort of top of funnel, more like, you know, feeder strategy first click awareness. Mm-hmm. Much less so, correct me if I’m wrong.
John: No, you’re, you’re a hundred percent right. The was the engineer I was speaking with.
Wednesday was saying the, she had a brain
Ralph: surgery seizure there for a second. I
John: did. I was like, was it yesterday? I said, don’t take his time. Well, and I’m like, I literally, I’m like, what did I do that day? That one, tell me which day it was. Right. I was like, I had a meeting with them. That must have been a Wednesday.
So Wednesday, two days ago. Um, yeah, so they, they basically said that, and it’s not a a hundred percent set in stone. Obviously there’s a lot of different variations, like, the industry, how much competitiveness and that kinda [00:37:00] stuff. But generally the higher the CPMs, the lower the funnel and the higher the cost and lower the CPM means more awareness.
Now you’re not gonna. You’re not gonna look at that ad and be like, Hmm, that’s bad because someone saw me for the first time and didn’t immediately get plastic surgery. That ad must suck. No, the more you can do yourself and your client a favor by not looking at an ad and say, that didn’t work, because we assumed it didn’t because Meta told us it may not have.
The better off you’ll be if what you have to do look at is, let’s just say meta didn’t exist. Let’s say the internet didn’t exist and you brought your plastic surgeon in front of John Moran and I said, Hey, I’d like to get a tummy tuck. Is this good and should I even do it? Name 10 things that you would want to share with me that would allow me to understand, gain my attention, gain my interest, and allow me to make a decision.
Those are what you need to produce in creative. If it’s a ton of UGCI don’t care if it’s, you know, a ton of why I’m the best doesn’t [00:38:00] help me. So that’s where we have to look at is you’re back to, you know, your avatar development days of 2017 with Ryan Deis, where you’re looking at what’s important to them And why, and making sure that all of those are included. So 99% of your first job is gonna be creative and then the meaty buying will kick in later.
Ralph: Yeah.
John: That if, if you didn’t hear
Ralph: that, that, let’s say that again. 99% of your job is creative. Was it 90 or 99? 99. Really? I mean because like 99 thought
John: I was so stunned.
I was like 99. It is. and here’s how I got that. The 1% of your job is can you launch a campaign with an ad set you’re done. Yeah. If you can do that, you’re a media
Ralph: buyer way to go.
John: The hard part is everything before that and everything after that. True. Exactly. Because so, ’cause now you’re gonna be iterating on different creative types.
We’ll have all the stuff that as this progresses, like step one is 99% creative. That’s why I said the media buying is actually gonna come after [00:39:00] that.
Ralph: It’s exciting stuff. Yeah. Like we’re on the bleeding edge here, but like we’ve been saying this for a long time. I mean, creative creates the audiences, but now creative creates the conversions.
John: Remember when I was like Mr. Tinfoil hat when I’m like, man i’s getting rid of manual. And everyone’s like, okay John, sit down. You a little weirdo. It’s up scaring people
Ralph: saying that.
John: Not you. I mean like the industry. It was just like Uhhuh. My meta rep said it wasn’t. I’m like, tried launching a manual campaign.
They’re like, what? Yeah.
Ralph: You heard it here first. Ladies and gentlemen. Stuart Little. I think this is the Stuart Little I know. How you doing Stuart? Uh, strategy for B2B healthcare equipment Lead generation campaign. Okay. What platforms would work great. Also, what big strategy do you use in initial stage on Google and keyword types to use?
Is LinkedIn types to use? Is LinkedIn good? Okay.
John: Okay. Thoughts? So I would actually test Google first. I. Meta is you’re okay with paying the haystack or buying the haystack ’cause you believe [00:40:00] there’s a lot of needles in there. Google is. I only wanna pay for the suspected needles who are looking for me.
So that’s how to think about it. So I would start not only, but I would start on Google first and I would then run a a Meta Advantage plus campaign with bottom of the funnel remarketing type of content because you want it to remarket it will do whatever it wants. The creative will dictate the targeting.
So bottom of the funnel, make sure that your ad spend initially is 80, 20, 80 on Google, 20% on meta. ’cause meta can retarget, but also we can go cold if it has too much money. So leave it choked a little bit, so it has to go warm and then use bottle on the funnel content. So it also has to go warm. Now on Google, you’re gonna look for things that are talking about the, you’re, you’re trying to find qualifications.
So B2B healthcare equipment’s too broad. What I would ask, what I would look for is sub sec sub sectioning that off into different product category types, and then having different campaigns slash ad groups looking for things like manufacturer, distributor, bulk [00:41:00] mass you’re trying to find. The people who don’t want a a, a healthcare equipment, like a radiology scanner.
I don’t even know if that’s a thing. But now you’re looking for things like, um, making stuff healthcare. I am, I’m just pulling shit outta my ass. MRI machine. I don’t know. Sure. I don’t know the scanner beeper. I don’t know syringe. I’m just gonna make up shit. Now that’s fat. So you’re looking for like healthcare equipment manufacturers, healthcare equipment, uh, warehouses.
You know, you’re looking at warehouses, right? I actually don’t do that one. I would actually just use chat GPT, which is great for keyword research. Don’t just paste it, but keyword research saying, if I was a company looking for this company, gimme ideas of what they would search for. Find the nuggets that are qualifications and then use those to start, I would use manual bidding bid high, like 10, 15, 20, $30 CPCs, but use low daily budgets so your risk exposure is low, and then test to see if your placements and your positioning are good.
Remember, your CPC dictates the [00:42:00] matched type of the search term to your key word means that if you have a $5 bid on healthcare equipment, you get things like Y is by x-ray machine glitching on a high CPC, you’re gonna get healthcare equipment manufacturer, because those are coming in at $40 a match to click.
Mm-hmm. So that’s where you wanna look at. Manual high CPC, low daily budgets going after qualified keywords. You find ideas on the chat, GPT remarket them on metal bottom of the funnel content. Start there.
Ralph: I would recommend we did a screen share on this from a call two weeks ago that we re-broadcast over on Perpetual Traffic that Eric Nice today, and it’s the one where we actually go through how we use AI and Nick’s part on c constructing Google, campaigns using ai Oh, yeah.
Specifically in the software space. I will go check that out. Or in perpetual traffic. It may or may not be up. That’ll be a upon of time. Yeah. I just, uh, I just edited like 40 minutes ago, so it might not be up yet. However, by the time refreshing. Keep refresh. Yeah. Keep [00:43:00] refreshing. Perpetual Traffic and it’s how Tier 11 uses ai.
and it’s actually the first 20 minutes talk exactly about what you just talked about here. So, uh, that’s great. Super good question. All right, so Stuart Little’s got question here. feeder strategy does it work for B2B?
John: Yes. Now you have to have a high amount of conversions for it to work. And so feeder strategy is mainly to in Google ads, to make sure that you’re not overspending for only conversions.
Where Google’s like, I’ll sell you, they click for a buck, but I’ll sell you the lead for $10. And that’s because they’re artificially increasing the CPC when they believe a person’s gonna convert. Now, if you’re like, Hey, I’m spending a lot of money. I got a lot of leads coming in, I’m using a T Row as A-T-C-P-A.
Looks like my goal is being met. It’s hard to kind of grow and scale. That’s when you would use feeder strategy. So making sure that you start to buy more traffic rather than just conversions, to see if you can gain a 30%, 40% increase in your traffic for only a five to 10% more cost. That’s where you’re feeding it.
Maybe colder users. So yes, if you’re in that situation, I would use it.
Ralph: Makes sense. John Moran’s dog is [00:44:00] here every week. Every week. The most loyal follower of this show anyway. good to see John Moran’s dog here. What are your thoughts on AI Max? Have you had a chance to test it or do you see potential in it?
John: I have not had a chance to test it. I’m super excited ’cause I think AI Max is already doing what DSA and Bram match are doing independently. So what you’re basically AI max is just combining your broad match and your DSA together to have, essentially, I want to go in this direction with these type of search terms.
This is what my website looks like. Can you find relevance there and scale the relevance when you see conversions? I would highly, highly, highly recommend that you do a import from clicks, uh, during this test because AI Max is going to feed itself whatever data it can find. If it finds bad data, it will feed up bad data and it will scale bad data.
If you are importing the conversions on only good quality leads or maybe some sales on some items you want, maybe you don’t make sure it can see only what you want it to see. So it can try to grow and scale that. But if you’re like, Hey, I got, I’m tracking like my add to carts and my big end checkouts and my conversions, [00:45:00] and you throw AI max, your add to carts will.
Blow up. I don’t know what will happen after that. Sometimes good, sometimes bad, but it’s gonna optimize for what it can get, like performance max. So just make sure that if you are doing import from clicks, ServerSide’s better make sure that you do that. But then yeah, I’m actually super excited ’cause it’s doing it anyway.
And I like both. I like broad match to explore. I like DSA to also explore what I didn’t think of. So I’m actually really excited. I just haven’t had a chance to test yet. I’m waiting to get access. Yeah.
Ralph: sounds like a, uh, a tier 11 live or 1811 ad lab show right there when you start testing at John Moran’s dog once again.
Uh, what’s your best recommendation for encouraging clients with fixed monthly budgets to transition to a more flexible budget approach? As long as their goals are being met. Hmm.
John: I would ask why. There. You said the key word there to me is their goals are being met. My question is, if their needs are being met, why change it?
Now? It sounds probably stupid, but if we’re saying change it from a fixed monthly budget to more flexible, do you need flexibility as sometimes they need to go up and down or flexible as I [00:46:00] really wanna get them to scale. There could always be reasons why they wouldn’t want to, or not even maybe enjoy scaling.
So I think I need a little bit more information about what flexible means to then tell you. But if you’re like, Hey, goals are being met, uh, you kind of, you doted that I and crossed that t
Ralph: Yeah.
John: What’s the need? Yeah, what’s the, I’m always goal-based and you’re like, Hey, we don’t need any more goals.
I’m like, then why change it? Just keep going. Just keep cursing. Yeah.
Ralph: Uh, John Moran’s dog. What approach do you recommend for analyzing and determining the most effective budget split between Meta and Google? What the channel makes tailored to different industries and client profiles?
John: Good question.
Yeah. So this one you’re talking about MMM, so we don’t have enough time to fully explain MMM ’cause there’s so much involved. I mean, nor Beam charge, I think 80 grand for MMM models. So we’re talking about like a 10 person study, but the theory of it is, and what we always try to achieve. and in any MMI don’t do it for Nppi, but I do it, you know, as a, as a standard operating procedure for how well you omnichannel market.
Sure. But you’re looking at benchmarking your attributable [00:47:00] sales. You should have data suite because that will also demystify a lot of the overlap. And almost forget everything you knew about conversion tracking and platform and said, if I couldn’t track a conversion here, would I still make those ad spend increases and decreases to these audiences?
Then you kind of see like, oh, you know what? Like I wouldn’t add a lot more money into brand if 80% of ’em are my returning customers. Like maybe I don’t just hemorrhage all my cash there. Maybe I don’t waste all my profitability on the last step. ROAS is 12 million, but is it actually helping? So that’s where you have to kind of think about it, but that’s the kind of the basis of it is where’s my cold traffic?
Where is my awareness? Is it established industry? Is it not? Do I need to build an audience or can I capture one? Those are all things that we’re talking about that go into MMM, but that’s the thing. It’s almost like humanizing your marketing again without the data and then analyzing the data from the top side on the other side.
Yeah.
Ralph: Makes sense. Sorin Tutu has a question here. I don’t think he’s, [00:48:00] seen him on this show before. I’m having a hard time understanding why meta is attributing so many conversions, uh, sometimes even more than the total number of orders in the backend of Shopify. How can we judge based on that?
John: Yep. So I almost exclusively now whenever I possibly can, or as fast as I can get the client switched over. I move into CAPI imports off of first click server side edge based deployment Now. Meta is model data. It means this is what they believe happened. So they may believe that more or less than what actually happened did happen, which is why it’s not a great representation of the growth of your company and not even a real, real great representation of the efficiency of all of your marketing.
What it is trying to estimate is how efficient is it at that stage of the funnel. Now, when you have one campaign and the entirety of your ads into one, one, into one campaign is still gonna be modeled data. Even if you import it, it’s still gonna be modeled data.
Ralph: However, the first 20 minutes or so we showed this, how you [00:49:00] are using that with a very small Google ad spend and you’re double checking it with the CRM or with Shopify the
John: backend.
Exactly. So you always wanna have multiple points of triangulation is they all will be different, but if all of them are 20% better, hey, you know, there you go. Fire away. So that’s, you’re looking at, I don’t care what the number is, I care if the number goes up or down.
Ralph: Yeah. That’s it. that’s a very good answer to that question ’cause there’s a lot of aspects to that, that you could go down the whole rabbit hole.
It’s like why it works the way that it works. But just to like taking a step back, like if you’re not, like the example that we use in the first part of today’s show, I think’s a great one because there’s basically two channels that you’re using. Mm-hmm. You’re using meta, you’re using Google Tiny ad spin on Google, you know, not a huge ad spin on meta.
However, like how much of a percentage of meta what you’re seeing inside meta take out CAPI imports. ’cause that’s a whole other thing is really is modeled data. What’s your estimation? I would say about actually only 10 to 15%.
John: Okay. It’s very, very good. Uh, [00:50:00] honestly, when we cap the import, they’re usually on like 20, they’re usually two off.
If it’s like 50, they’re usually like five to six off. So it’s about 10 to 15%
Ralph: that is so far down than what it used to be.
John: Oh yeah. It
Ralph: used to be almost 40, 50%. Especially after the 2021, the iOS 14 debacle. Like nobody knew. And it was like you lost 70% of your data overnight and then the model data came back and it was like 40 or 50% and it still was missing a lot.
So 10 to 15% isn’t really that bad. Makes you wonder
John: how much privacy violations are actually producing the back end that you dunno of. That’s true. Yeah. You know, if I was Zuck, I’d do it. What does he have to lose at this point? Really? I mean, when, when your network starts with a b, who cares? Yeah. Who cares?
Ralph: Go down a couple of bees, eh? No. Oh darn. I can’t buy
John: another,
Ralph: planet. Yeah, Can’t go to that moon or something. speaking of bees, buy the best drone as a question. I have a search account where [00:51:00] broad match does not work at all. It’s TCPA, but cannot scale through to volume. We still want more leads from competitors.
Have you done feeder with no broad? I wonder if he sells drones.
John: Yeah. So broad matched when it doesn’t work at all. it, there’s two things. It’s either not enough data or not enough aspen or not enough time. Now, all three of those are not mutually exclusive to each other, so when you look at the broad mesh does not work at all.
What I would say is first, most often maximize conversions for sometimes 30 to 45 days is needed before A-T-C-P-A can even help increase efficiency. TCPA will never scale. Not if you actually are trying to hit a target. TCPA is a restrictive bidding strategy that tells Google, unless you know or you very, very highly think that Ralph is gonna convert right now, don’t bid on him.
So the reason why TCPA [00:52:00] cannot scale is because maybe there has not been enough time for that campaign to run on, maximize conversions, to explore all the different search terms and keywords and CPCs and positionings that it needs to, to understand where it can and cannot go. That’s very expensive. Or you leave it on max conversions with low budget for longer.
You’re buying the data either with high amount of spend and a short amount of time, or low amount of spend for longer, but you need to buy the data one way or the other, right? Do what you can afford. Then after broad match starts to work and then you are optimizing everything else. The last step, the funny is, okay, everything looks good.
Throw a TCP on there and I’ll see you next week. Like then, now it just should run. But TCPA is the last step. It’s never the first step.
Ralph: Yeah,
John: makes sense.
Ralph: Casey Snow has a question here. I think Casey’s new to the show. Have you tested incremental attribution in Meta?
John: Yes, and that was actually one of the worst performing campaigns I’ve ever seen in Data Suite.
I had some of the lowest cold traffic 22 compared to our average of 41 and had two thirds returning customer one third. Now I will a new customers. However, I will say that the NAC was very good. [00:53:00] It just wouldn’t scale because it was targeting too much returning. So I think whatever it’s trying to work on to get new customers to buy, that has increased.
However, it is not taking any steps to have existing customers not buy. So that’s just, just know that it’s very good at getting a sale, but it’s even better at getting a sale on new and returning. So it’s not incremental, it’s just more of what it’s doing.
Ralph: How much have you tested
John: it?
Ralph: Like,
John: 20 grand and two different campaigns?
But after it beat my NAC but couldn’t scale and got more returning customers than anything else, I only can work with what scales. ’cause that’s what I’m, you know, trying to do in most of the accounts.
Ralph: Right? That’s what we do.
John: Exactly. Grow
Ralph: businesses. All right. John Moran’s dog back with another question just because, hey, it’s our favorite ’cause he is John Moran’s dog.
We will answer this question. Uh, I have a client interested in testing YouTube ads. Would you recommend YouTube Demand Gen or a combination of the focus on both brand awareness and conversions?
John: So demand gen’s. Okay. I actually have a test, uh, where I ran Cap import or, uh, import from clicks on Demand Gen got 27 returning for nine new.
My nine new cost me a [00:54:00] $900 per CPA, where the account total is usually two $50 per CPA or n cac I should say. So Demand Gen, I have not figured out yet for like bottom of the funnel, but YouTube works very well. If you are using an import from Clicks model and still using sequencing, that still is some of the best thing today.
Testing YouTube ads is very scary because demand gen. Seems to target 50 to 60% website traffic who sometimes could be your existing customers or sometimes can just be really good remarketing, but incrementality from demand gen is seldom the case. So unless you are knowing that you can test the incrementality, whether in platform, on in clicks or top line net hack metrics be very weary of demand gen.
However, the funny enough flip side, the sequencing campaigns that rarely ever show a conversion have some of the most one-to-one ratio of increase in spend and increase in attributable first time revenue globally that I’ve seen ever. So it’s funny, if you measure in platform, you’re gonna hate sequencing, but if you measure nca, you’re gonna love sequencing.
Yeah,
Ralph: there is a, uh, [00:55:00] a, a YouTube live that we, or a, a tier 11 live that we did like that. We’ve done multiple ones on that. So go back through the catalog there and try and find that one. Yeah, I think they’re all titled so. I think so. Yeah. I’m not mistaken, but yeah, we don’t have time to go through it here, but anyway.
Great question. Uh, Tyler Cohen has a multiple questions here. Real estate client wants to get more home seller leads through Google Ads. What do you think through strategy and then, yeah. Demand Gen versus YouTube just got that. Maybe we can hit all these at once.
John: I’ll see if I can roll through ’em.
Alright, so first question. I wanna get more cell leads to Google ads. Uh, I would actually use still a broad match, small amount of keywords because there’s a thousand different search terms for small broad match keyword. Yeah, so I would still use broad match keywords on a small amount of them, and then I would, I would make sure that they are not wildly different because there’s a whole different vari variations that people type to type into Google when you’re talking about motivated seller leads.
Like, sell my home fast, sell my house fast, sell my property, sell my, you know, [00:56:00] those type of things are always randomly different, but they all are about the same broad match keywords. So keep your keyword strategy. Small difference between demand and YouTube. Demand gen is like P max for video. YouTube, when you’re looking at non-con conversion based bidding, non-video action campaigns are more like you pick your target, pick your audience, pick your exclusions, go.
So your mileage may vary. Do you need more retargeting kind of blended or are you trying to attack an audience hard? Those are the difference between demand gen and YouTube. The next thing is, wants to get more home seller leads. Google. Okay, we did that one. that was actually a copy paste from the one to above there.
It looks like.
yeah. What’s the difference between demanding? Okay, we already did that one. Maybe it’s just duplicating, uh, grateful to your both for generosity, giving away solar, much scaping for you guys.
Ralph: Happy to help. Alright. Absolutely. Thank you Tyler. All right, Stuart, little one more question here. Can you explain your first click import data post on LinkedIn to A PPC beginner?
John: Oh yeah. So I posted on, on LinkedIn the importance of first click import. First first click imports. And so, this is a beginner type of, uh, well beginning thought [00:57:00] process.
I’m just gonna use paint. Like paint. This is the, the theory there. So we have a whole, we have videos on like import from clicks. I, I don’t wanna give away trade secrets obviously, because this is something that is like revolutionary for us. And so I’m not just gonna tell every tech company how to clone our, our product, but we have a very unique way of gathering the first click and then backdating it through the history of time.
But what’s interesting about this is if you have two users, this, just imagine two stick figures. This is, user one. Uh, whatever user one, this is user one as well. So this is two visits from the same person. Meta may see this, and Google may see this as user number one and may incorrectly think this is user number two because we already know that Meta and Google are bad at fingerprinting, especially after like three days, right?
So the import from clicks means that if user two as opposed or what Meta thinks or Google thinks is user two clicks on something and buys something. I don’t wanna [00:58:00] necessarily import that as a import here because this is a different gcl. This one here, user one is actually user two. They have a different gcl.
However, this GCL didn’t do anything. So when the second click from User one buys, I import user one’s first click because it’ll actually attribute to a different campaign because they’re actually a different user in type of meta’s brain or Google’s brain because they don’t know it’s the same person.
So when the same person takes the second action, I import the first actions click. That’s as beginners, I can make it.
Ralph: That’s it.
John: That’s
Ralph: the dumb down version. And that’s some beautiful artwork. We got one last question from Casey Snow. Let’s do it. When you have diverse content on Advantage Plus and you’re not meeting gold, you kill the top ads getting spent, or you just launch new ads to find new winners?
It’s a good question.
John: My question is, have you given this 30 days before touching it? I didn’t. I I was painfully not touching things for three weeks and it went from eh, to Okay, good. Wow. This is amazing. I didn’t All right. The one that we showed in the beginning part [00:59:00] of the
Ralph: show.
John: Yeah. To,
Ralph: okay. I didn’t realize that.
I thought you, I uploaded everything and just let it ride for a month.
John: Okay. Crazy. Right? And no data For the first three weeks, you said? The first week I had two ads with all the spend and only click attributed. Second week I started to see it trickle down. Third week, almost three quarters of my ads had one, or at least, well, actually two click attributed conversions.
Yeah. All happened at three weeks without touching anything. Okay. So that was like 14th. I double to
Ralph: May 20th as I recall. And then it was 21 to 28, and then
John: May 28th to June 6th, I doubled the budget.
Ralph: Got it. So, yeah. Go watch the recording of the first 20 minutes or so. That’ll blow your mind. There you go.
All right. We will leave links in the show notes to all the resources that we mentioned here. Of course, everything about Advantage Plus sales. We’ll leave as much links as we can there. There’s really not a whole lot, but most of it has come from the meta site and you can just sort of Google it yourself.
Of course, if you’ve been listening to this show in the audio format. Make sure that to get the real deal, to understand exactly how [01:00:00] John was breaking everything down, head on over to our YouTube channel where you can see the video of this over@perpetualtraffic.com slash YouTube, but you already knew that.
So thank you so much for listening this week and wherever you listen to podcasts. We’d really appreciate a rating and review. It really does help us reach a wider audience to teach how to do this stuff the right way to you, the marketer, and you, the director of marketing, you the business owner, and you can do that over on Spotify or Apple Podcast, whatever you choose.
So really appreciate you listening to this week’s show. Until next week, see ya actually. Until next show, see ya. All right.
