Do you still believe in “cut the losers and let the winners run”? After seeing what Meta’s Andromeda update is doing under the hood, that old-school strategy might be costing you real growth. In this Ad Lab session, John Moran and I break down how Andromeda completely rewrites the rules of campaign optimization and why CPA alone no longer tells the whole story.
We analyse live account data where spend doubled, CPAs held steady, and results skyrocketed, all because we stopped judging ads by last-click performance. Using Tier 11’s Data Suite, we uncovered how creative sequencing, user journey mapping, and first-click CAPI imports reveal what’s driving conversions inside Meta’s new ecosystem.
This episode unpacks what Andromeda really means for your campaigns and how to play Meta’s game the way Meta does.
In this episode:
07:37 Client case study on Andromeda’s sequencing impact
09:44 Ad performance analysis: UGC vs. non-UGC ad trends
19:29 Why CPA is a poor performance judge
23:55 Scaling ad spend and performance metrics
28:30 UGC ads and their effectiveness
37:15 Creative targeting and expanding market reach
44:58 Conclusion and call to action
Resources mentioned in the episode:
Tier 11 Data Suite – https://www.tiereleven.com/what-we-do/data-suite
Meta Engineering Blog Article on Andromeda – https://engineering.fb.com/2024/12/02/production-engineering/meta-andromeda-advantage-automation-next-gen-personalized-ads-retrieval-engine/
Ad Lab Live Sessions – https://www.youtube.com/@Tier11/streams
Buy Tier 11’s Creative Diversification Package: https://www.tiereleven.com/apply
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READ THE TRANSCRIPT:
Stop Pausing Winning Ads! Andromeda Ad Strategy That Changes Everything
00:00:00:00 – 00:00:16:00
John
We’ve been testing this and then also scaling. At last 14 days we spent 91% up and we can see we’re like 2% up in costs, 22% down in cost. I mean, we basically added 80 pages and all this stuff’s going good. What we’ve identified is that Andromeda has a very specific way that it likes to optimize, which is.
00:00:17:26 – 00:00:37:26
Ralph
Hello, and welcome to the Perpetual Traffic podcast. This is your host, Ralph Burns, founder and CEO of tier 11. Not alongside my amazing co-host, Lauren Petrillo. This week, because we are doing a clip from episode 57 of the ad live. And we’ve done this many times here on the show where we have episodes,
00:00:37:26 – 00:00:40:10
Ralph
that we’ve done on these ad lives that are so great.
00:00:40:10 – 00:00:45:07
Ralph
I think to myself as we’re recording it, I’ve got to put this over on perpetual traffic.
00:00:45:07 – 00:01:00:02
Ralph
If you are not tuning in every Friday 230 eastern, I highly recommend that you do. So, head on over to your tier11.com/youtube. Subscribe to the channel and you’ll actually see this stuff going live. We don’t re-purpose every single Friday.
00:01:00:02 – 00:01:19:29
Ralph
Only the best ones that I think are most relevant to this audience here that listens to the show. A quarter of a million of you every single month, which you really do appreciate, you tuning in each week. And I think it’s largely because we’re actually doing this stuff. We are not just theorizing how these things work. We’re actually going out and doing it.
00:01:20:01 – 00:01:45:06
Ralph
And, John, fortunately, as a member of the tier 11 staff here, has been testing, actually with his own money in his own businesses since early part of this year, even before anyone was talking about the Meta Andromeda update. Now you see blog posts. You see videos of it all over the internet. The back in early part of this year, nobody was doing it.
00:01:45:06 – 00:02:06:13
Ralph
So we are we feel like we’re about ten months ahead of everyone else in testing this stuff, which is probably the reason that you listen to this show, to get these cutting edge strategies. So, we’ve spent over $10 million on the Meta Andromeda update right now and are finding new things every single week. That’s the key with all of this.
00:02:06:15 – 00:02:29:15
Ralph
And when John tested in his own sort of business accounts and brings that over to tier 11, it allows us to be able to scale businesses faster than they ever could. And what we’ve found is that with the Meta Andromeda update, there is a lot of things that you need to do as a media buyer and a strategist that are counter to how you would do things prior.
00:02:29:18 – 00:02:53:07
Ralph
And I mean, this one here today is probably one of the most important lessons that we’ve learned. John has learned this firsthand and is passing it on to you here. So there’s an old maxim, that everyone’s heard inside the media buying world is to cut your losers and let your winners run. Or, as I like to say, I probably stole this one from Perry Belcher, star of the Ponies Feed the Stallions.
00:02:53:07 – 00:03:07:09
Ralph
Not very popular with the horse crowd, obviously. But the point is, is when you go into your ad account and you see one ad that has $8,000 in spend and one conversion, you usually would say, oh, I need to pause that.
00:03:07:09 – 00:03:19:19
Ralph
Well, what we show today is that’s actually the complete opposite of what you should be doing. So in the Andromeda era, that rule can actually kill your performance.
00:03:19:19 – 00:03:56:12
Ralph
And we’re going to go through this here today in today’s episode, which is really exciting. So if you’re listening to this, I highly recommend that you go or watch this over on our YouTube channel, perpetual traffic.com/youtube. Check it out there. And of course, tune in to the AD Labs every Friday at 230 eastern. Because in this episode, we break down why CPA in-app is no longer a reliable metric, and how sequencing and spin based models reveal the real winners, and why pausing those bad ads might be the fastest way to wreck your scaling.
00:03:56:12 – 00:04:20:09
Ralph
So if you’ve killed an ad too early in the Meta Andromeda update and you’re having results that are going sideways, this is probably the reason why. So we also talk about the meta algorithm here. Why? UGC creative and creative diversification is so vitally important. And it all works with these strategies together. So we obviously we tie all that in with the tier 11 data suite.
00:04:20:14 – 00:04:44:10
Ralph
Now, for those of you who have been struggling to nail down this new way of doing things for the Meta Andromeda update, you are not alone. And we have designed an offer specifically for you. If you say, all right, this is all great, I can get my team to do this, but I’d rather have somebody do this. Somebody who’s been figuring this out for ten, 11 months now.
00:04:44:13 – 00:05:04:09
Ralph
Well, we’ve got an offer for you here today, and this is for you, the perpetual traffic listener. We have not released this to the general audience as of yet. We are offering a buy one, get two free offer for you through the end of this year or the end of 2025. We’re sneak peeking this just to you, the perpetual traffic listener.
00:05:04:14 – 00:05:28:06
Ralph
You can actually buy the Creative Diversification package, which is 30 plus ad creatives every single month using those ten different ad types, which John and I talk about on this show here today, as well as many shows in the past, but you get the media buying in the tier 11 data suite for free. So you buy the creative, you get the media buying and you get the tier 11 data suite for free.
00:05:28:13 – 00:05:50:05
Ralph
So this is for you, the perpetual traffic listener. We don’t even have a sales page set up for this as of yet, but we’re going to be offering this starting November 1st for the generalized audience. So if you are fast acting and you want to get this stuff done right now and set yourself up for success in the end of 25 and into 2026, head on over to 11.com for slash.
00:05:50:05 – 00:06:08:17
Ralph
Apply today. Fill in the application because we’re only doing 11 of these through the end of the year. That’s all we have capacity for. Once again, it’s by the creative diversification package, which we talked about here on the show many times, and get the media buying and the tier 11 data suite for free. Check it out over at two 11.com/apply.
00:06:08:17 – 00:06:16:02
Ralph
So without further ado, let’s get to John and myself. We talk about the biggest mistake that you’re probably making with the Meta Andromeda update
00:06:16:02 – 00:06:16:26
Ralph
and how to fix it
00:06:16:26 – 00:06:19:01
Ralph
here today by not pausing your ads. All
00:06:19:10 – 00:06:24:19
Ralph
We’re doing some crazy Wolverine kind of shit today on today. Is that lab sequencing,
00:06:24:22 – 00:06:29:06
John
Yes, yes. So good. I love so good.
00:06:29:09 – 00:06:46:00
Ralph
Andromeda is, like, the coolest thing. I was just explaining this to a would be client of ours, which hopefully does become a client. Actually have a great business. But it’s like they’re not doing Andromeda. They’re not doing what we talk about every single week. Like, it’s hard to say it, but like, you need that and they have got a great creative team.
00:06:46:00 – 00:07:18:00
Ralph
So we get the strategist could just like tell them all the ten different types of ads to do. And boom, we create Andromeda and magic happens. Yeah. But he said this, this is going to be interesting. He said, cut the losers and let the winners run, which is fine unless you’re in in the Andromeda worlds, because it’s not necessarily, you know, they’re not necessarily equated, which I know you showed an example last week of like one ad that had like all the ad spend, but only one conversion.
00:07:18:00 – 00:07:28:05
Ralph
But it was leading to an overall global end for all the ads, well within the range that that client wanted. Correct me if I’m wrong.
00:07:28:07 – 00:07:45:09
John
Yeah, yeah. And I think that that’s kind of what we’re seeing, like kind of a almost like across the board. It’s actually really interesting what we’re seeing now. It’s so good. It’s so interesting. I’m just going to dive right in. It was hard to it’s hard to kind of like summarize, unless I use a I’m very visual, so I can’t explain.
00:07:45:11 – 00:07:49:03
John
I’m like an Italian this handcuffed I guess speech impediment, you know, like, because I can’t talk.
00:07:49:08 – 00:07:57:01
Ralph
I think you are part Italian because, I mean, but if Italians needed screen shares, you would be a time like this. Yeah.
00:07:57:04 – 00:08:01:06
John
It’s my my, my. This is screen share.
00:08:01:09 – 00:08:04:03
Ralph
Right. Perfect. So you’ll you’ll notice there’s.
00:08:04:03 – 00:08:09:12
John
No ad sets or campaigns mentioned in the entirety of the Andromeda model, which is so funny. I love it.
00:08:09:12 – 00:08:11:10
John
this part here, I’m kind of a,
00:08:11:10 – 00:08:20:10
John
we’ve been following this very, very closely for many accounts. To summarize what we’re about to explain these two things here, you got user requests and your ads corpus.
00:08:20:10 – 00:08:38:06
John
This is everybody in meta. This is your ads. And through a basically three step process, meta is going to find what is resonating. And this portion right here looks like a big old you know, the hierarchical model is like a big old gobbledygook. Like it just looks like okay cool that that the spaghetti is getting smaller. Like that’s basically what this looks like here.
00:08:38:09 – 00:08:59:13
John
What this is signaling is we’re testing different ads, different creatives, different users, different targeting. And we’re getting the sequence more streamlined. So when it says cut your losers, let your winners run. The losers are not CPA defined like in my opinion. And you’d correct me if I’m wrong when they say cut the losers and let the winners run.
00:08:59:16 – 00:09:27:00
John
You probably heard that from a CPM perspective. It’s like a CPA perspective is typically how people say, well, a winner must be in CPA. But again, in a hierarchal model where you have, you know, sometimes one I mean, if you follow this one, two, three, four, five, six, I missed one. But, you know, seven and eight, basically how those users are moving through the ad sequencing, if they click and buy, it could be on the first one before they retarget them.
00:09:27:00 – 00:09:45:03
John
It could be on the second one before or like after they got hit with the first one. I mean, you only get one checkbox out of all of these here that says that this is wrong. This is why I’ve always said since day one, focus on spend. Don’t focus on CPA attribution model is poor. Spend model is actually 100% accurate because it’s being spent on so well.
00:09:45:04 – 00:10:07:19
John
We look at this thing and say, okay, well that sounds cool, but tell me how that works. Like show me like how this is working. So inside of our own campaign, we’ve been testing this and then also scaling at least 14 days. We spent 91% up and we can see we’re like 2% up in costs, 22% down and cost 1%, because, I mean, we basically added 80 pages and, you know, it’s just up, up, up like nice chef’s kiss.
00:10:07:19 – 00:10:23:03
John
All this stuff’s going good. But it’s not necessarily. What’s funny about this is when you look at the spend, let me just take off the last 14 days here. If we look at the spend descending and you look at the CPA, it’s like, well, John, that one’s better than that one. That one’s better than that one, that one’s better than that one.
00:10:23:05 – 00:10:42:12
John
Like, you know, this one here, this one here and this one here. John, these are doing better. Like if you look at like you got a 263 compared to a two and you got a 251 compared to 279. This one actually is something that we’re reiterating. The same would read boost and it’s like, man you got a 661.
00:10:42:12 – 00:10:51:20
John
That’s pretty terrible. So why are you not spending more on those. Why are you still spending on that? And this is where CPAs a poor judge, performance we don’t think.
00:10:51:20 – 00:10:54:06
Ralph
Was exactly what we were talking about. Bingo.
00:10:54:08 – 00:11:09:01
John
Thank you, thank you, thank you. Now. Yep. You’re using the tier 11 data suite. I’ll explain why. And it becomes so frickin clear. Using the tier 11 day suite on how to identify the sequencing moving through. Okay, now total leads.
00:11:09:03 – 00:11:11:28
Ralph
We’ve never shown this before. I know this well. This is this.
00:11:11:28 – 00:11:13:18
John
Is like a new it’s exciting.
00:11:13:18 – 00:11:16:04
Ralph
New listeners nerding out on this.
00:11:16:04 – 00:11:20:24
John
But when you cook in the meth lab, there’s no shortage of energy. Like, that’s what I’m saying. It’s it’s it’s right there.
00:11:20:24 – 00:11:29:20
Ralph
Because this chaos chaos comes with it. But lots of energy and lots of methamphetamine. So, keeps going so that and bang.
00:11:29:22 – 00:11:33:05
John
That’s true. Well, that’s basically my met. So legal.
00:11:33:08 – 00:11:33:25
Ralph
So good.
00:11:33:27 – 00:11:55:03
John
Yeah. So, more energy, less jail. It’s great. So total leads inside of here is signifying add to carts. And that is just what we have to all, just agree on that. When it says total leads, this is lead gen. This is how this is identified by begin checkouts like we have their their information are beginning to check out.
00:11:55:05 – 00:12:03:25
John
So when you have the add to carts you’re thinking about or when you have the lead you have like your beginning checkouts, you add two carts like you’re moving into the next stage after the click.
00:12:03:27 – 00:12:06:08
Ralph
Do you have that labeled that way specifically?
00:12:06:13 – 00:12:07:28
John
Just so that’s just a default.
00:12:08:05 – 00:12:09:26
Ralph
It’s just a default okay. Yeah.
00:12:09:28 – 00:12:26:10
John
Yeah. So it’s just default. So basically it’s like that’s how we’re we’re optimizing it. So here’s what we look at is okay so got clearance and clearance is doing okay. All right. So remember we highlighted the ones that are working. Well said. Delivers more. This one. Remember this one was doing so terrible. Said with red boost man that was doing bad.
00:12:26:10 – 00:12:45:15
John
That one you said with red boost was like 664 deal I terrible. Yeah. So what we’re looking through all of these what we have to notice is while we’re highlighting I know I’ll group them together. This is the group here, and this is a group here. Let’s just use these. Let’s, you know. Oh, you know what?
00:12:45:15 – 00:13:15:20
John
I’ll do it this way. Haha. I found colors inside of here, so this one is green. These two are green, and I’ll make these two. We’ll make them blue. So that we can identify the differences between them. So you got two different groups. The green group is unique. The blue group is non UDC. Their product highlights. What we’ve identified is that Andromeda has a very specific way that it likes to optimize, which is showing all asked all users and developing a sequence of what needs to see first, second, third, fourth.
00:13:15:23 – 00:13:32:14
John
On top of that matrix, you’re layering in your pain point, your hooks, your offer. So you’re you’re trying to basically have product market fit. That’s all you’re doing when you’re doing that with creative, right. So but not everyone is going to see everything first, second, third, fourth. Now they’re wanting to click the first, second, third, fourth. Now I’m always going to buy from the first, first, second, third, fourth and click.
00:13:32:14 – 00:13:46:25
John
So we have to identify what is the trends analysis that we’re doing on the users. And you’re going to notice that in the green. And I’m not gonna use the same color green because I’m not that good in selecting RGB wheels. But you’re going to be able to see that this has some fairly good amount of cold traffic.
00:13:46:25 – 00:13:54:09
John
You got 63, 77, 71 now and then in the bottom row about the same 7074 okay. Good. Now you’re going to notice.
00:13:54:09 – 00:13:55:17
Ralph
Do visit percentage by the.
00:13:55:17 – 00:13:58:08
John
Way. Yes. Really high is a percentage exactly.
00:13:58:10 – 00:14:02:00
Ralph
60 to 70%. Like that’s really good. Oh exactly.
00:14:02:00 – 00:14:22:10
John
Yeah that’s that’s actually very good. That’s a that’s a hefty amount of cold traffic in terms of meta land. Correct. But you see the blue is in the 40s. So now you’re seeing okay more first time visitors on usually see more second time visitors on the product ads okay. So we’re starting to establish a trend. Now let’s dive a little bit deeper into that trend.
00:14:22:15 – 00:14:44:03
John
Now the first trend that we’re going to notice is okay what how many clicks before or how many add the cards. So we got 10,000 clicks 189 add to carts okay, 63,000 clicks. 62 add to carts okay. 24,000 clicks 79 add to carts. All right. So kind of, you know, all over the board, but lot of clicks, tens of thousands for not a whole lot of conversion.
00:14:44:06 – 00:15:00:23
John
Not a lot of add to carts. Right. That’s because that’s the first interaction that they’ve had with that product that add our brand, etc.. It is like hi, I’m John, next thing out of the customer’s mouth is going to be like, I’ll buy one today, right? We’re skipping the middle part part. So next we have to look at now how did the blue do.
00:15:00:23 – 00:15:02:17
John
The blue 1%.
00:15:02:19 – 00:15:16:00
Ralph
Thereabouts. It’s about 1%. Well maybe not the 24,000, but it’s about 1%, which is about that makes sense. Like we usually say like 1% of your traffic is going to click and buy. In most cases this is an add to cart. So it’s not entirely accurate. But yeah.
00:15:16:03 – 00:15:31:14
John
Yeah. It’s like we’re starting to see that the trends analysis. Now let’s go down to the blues. Now after they click they look look at the product. You know they’ve maybe out of the cart. Most of them didn’t. But you got a lot of understanding about what this is. So actually let me let me I did not run a disservice.
00:15:31:14 – 00:15:44:00
John
Let me back up one step. What has happened so far that we discussed is we’ve shown a UGC ad to fairly cold traffic. We say, hey, look at this dog. This dog was sick and now they’re on the mend. And look at the before and after that we’re kind of like, you know, not that great. Now they’re happy, healthy.
00:15:44:00 – 00:16:00:00
John
And they said, wow, I love success stories about dogs being healthy. I wonder how they happen. I’m going to click the other one. Say, you know what? Great for the dog. Happy fun story I’m scrolling on. Great. So the people like the people that click, they say, that’s the product. They’re learning about it. And they say, that’s interesting.
00:16:00:00 – 00:16:23:00
John
You know, maybe I’ll come back to this. I’ll look at this later. They leave. Now, the second thing that happens most often based on percentiles of user journeys, is we identify that the product that has most often the second click, because we have a lot more, more traffic. We also have a lot fewer clicks. Now these so these fewer clicks will highlight these the same that we highlighting the green.
00:16:23:02 – 00:16:50:04
John
Now we have 303,752 compared to 76. That’s a vast difference because if we look at 24,000 got a 79, only 3000 got us 79. So you can see that these people are much more warmer right. And there’s a lot fewer visits but a lot higher order cards. Look at the next one down 3900. Very similar to the 3700 230 to add the cards.
00:16:50:07 – 00:17:10:13
John
Okay. Very interesting. Yeah. So now here’s what’s interesting. Now you got the sit delivers more and you got to said would proc read boost their second click. Warm traffic high amount to add the cards. Let’s take one step deeper. I’m not going to exit out of this. I’m just going to use the use this version. So same screen I’m just not drawing on it.
00:17:10:15 – 00:17:34:22
John
But what you’ll notice here is those 232 in the SIB with red boost. If you click on this from a total add to cart, this is first click attributed by the way. That is the attribution model that we’re using. You’ll notice that in here, out of 232 total ad, the cards in this campaign, 182 were new. Second click first add to cart.
00:17:34:24 – 00:17:59:02
John
So we have first click not them and add to carts. Second click a lot of add to carts. Okay. Now let’s see what the said with red boost is the seven red boost to no sorry said delivers more 76. So now we have said delivers more 276. Now let’s look at these 72 out of the 76 are new and only four reengaged okay.
00:17:59:04 – 00:18:18:23
John
So what this is telling us is that when they see the first one or 2 or 3, as there is a massive ton of clicks, and then when they click again, there’s a massive amount of add to carts. We look at our essentially, oh, there it is. And they said delivers more. And the same with red boost is 393 292.
00:18:18:25 – 00:18:34:26
John
On the Tim dog it’s 636. Well on the Tim dog which I don’t know where Tim Dog is. Oh no I’m sorry. We did a deposit on that one. And I’m looking at last 30 days and I’m query last 14 days. Let’s just move on to the ones that have have as we we pause Tim.
00:18:34:26 – 00:18:53:01
John
In Paul. So Clarence here for example, let’s do Clarence. Clarence. So there’s Clarence right here. Clarence has got a 276 N CAK and the CID with red versus 292. So Clarence is 301 said with red, both 664. Wow. That’s very different, isn’t it?
00:18:53:08 – 00:18:54:05
Ralph
Sure is.
00:18:54:07 – 00:19:11:29
John
Yes. Now, if we were to go ahead and say, you know what, I just don’t think that CID would read boost is working at 664. Remember the Meta Andromeda engine is last click. Yeah we’re importing though. First click conversions. So when you import first click and it says hey this is the amount of people that did the last click.
00:19:11:29 – 00:19:29:24
John
It means that this is getting the highest amount of add to carts per click. But that is not where they started or where they necessarily ended. Okay, that’s fine, but I’m not going to take one of my biggest add to cart performers and shut it off because the cGPA isn’t there.
00:19:29:27 – 00:19:38:09
Ralph
If you didn’t have tier 11 data suite plug plug, tier 11 data suite, of course, you would have made a very large error.
00:19:38:15 – 00:19:51:02
John
We probably would have paused. Yeah. I mean, I mean, if all signs pointed to. Well, yes, we would this would absolutely be something that we would end up pausing. But this is something that we’re going to be continuing on with further.
00:19:51:05 – 00:19:55:15
Ralph
Right. So it’s early days anyway. Like the ads only been live what, a day or two. Yeah.
00:19:55:17 – 00:20:09:12
John
Yeah. It’s been like three days now. What’s the first thing. I launched it in the first three days and it doesn’t look that good. So I paused it. Every frickin person I, you know, I’ve launched the campaign or launched that. And then the first week I started hacking off ads that are having low cGPA or high cGPA. I the old way of doing things.
00:20:09:15 – 00:20:34:27
John
Exactly. You cannot do it that way. I mean, this is a crazy, crazy, crazy $857. I’m like, I don’t care us delivering the highest amount of ad cards we’ve ever seen. I mean, that isn’t a fantastic ad. Majority of them are cold to three causes of a cold. I would have taken 200 cold ad to cars and just chucked out the window because Andromeda didn’t say a last thing that they ever did, ever to the website was there, I don’t care, I just like how I also don’t look at the first thing that they ever did, ever.
00:20:35:02 – 00:20:39:07
Ralph
Starve the ponies, feed the stallions is no longer in existence. Ladies and gentlemen.
00:20:39:09 – 00:20:43:22
John
This is no longer in our control now, only in our understanding.
00:20:43:27 – 00:20:59:13
Ralph
If you didn’t have to. Year 11 data suite here, though, if you’re just looking at you would have paused it. But your global Ncac inside ads manager actually looks good, if I recall what the goal is. It’s what? It’s 279 for that entire ad set.
00:20:59:17 – 00:21:00:23
John
Yeah, we want to be at 300.
00:21:01:00 – 00:21:11:00
Ralph
We want to be I understand. So it’s it’s good technically like you would you would be inclined to pause the $664 one.
00:21:11:02 – 00:21:12:25
John
Literally everything else looks better. But that one.
00:21:12:29 – 00:21:14:04
Ralph
Yeah, but
00:21:14:04 – 00:21:32:12
Ralph
in the new Andromeda days, even if you don’t have tier 11 data suites, you’re 11 data suite. Obviously, you can do either the first click or last click. Everything here is last click. Okay. You’ve got this queued up for first click. So you know that that that click on that $664 spend is actually worthwhile because you can actually physically see it.
00:21:32:17 – 00:21:50:22
Ralph
You can measure it. The Ncac is different inside data suite than it is inside meta. But if you didn’t have the luxury of tier 11 data suite, your recommendation would still be like, who cares about what the individual ads are doing? As long as the CPA is where you need it to be. If you’re going on a CPA model inside Ads Manager.
00:21:50:22 – 00:21:55:01
John
Correct, right? Wrong. Right. And that’s simply because people believe that everyone, for
00:21:55:01 – 00:22:01:27
John
some reason, I don’t understand it. Like it’s the biggest cognitive dissonance that I’ve ever seen in my entire lifetime. And I don’t say that lightly.
00:22:02:02 – 00:22:04:07
Ralph
Yeah. It is. It’s pretty counterintuitive.
00:22:04:09 – 00:22:16:28
John
Everyone would unanimously agree since the 80s in direct mail. Yeah. How many times do you need to be engaged with an ad before you convert? And then we measure it by? Nope. Unless it’s one, I don’t want it.
00:22:17:01 – 00:22:21:26
Ralph
It’s like, no, I want the 1 in 100 that are going to click buy. It’s going to be less than one 100.
00:22:21:26 – 00:22:36:25
John
Really. It’s like so you mean people don’t consider their purchases? No one does. No one knows. Oh okay. Cool. Well that’s not reality. So I guess I’ll just do something different. Like that’s that’s what’s funny is like, people are like, is that ad getting all of my traffic and all the conversions ever in the history of time? If not, I just shut it off.
00:22:36:25 – 00:22:38:28
John
It’s like, cool, then close your business. Yeah.
00:22:39:00 – 00:22:42:02
Ralph
So that’s you might as well just like forget about advertising just in general.
00:22:42:06 – 00:22:43:04
John
But exactly.
00:22:43:04 – 00:22:56:22
John
I mean, if you think about this way, if you walk into a store and you say, hey, I need some help, I’d like to know where the toilet paper is. And they hold your hand, they bring over to the toilet paper and you’re like, wow, I’m going to buy this toilet paper, but you buy it at the counter to the person that helped you find it where they were, they useless?
00:22:56:26 – 00:23:05:12
John
No, that’s your middle click. That’s your add to cart. They didn’t buy from the person that showed on the product. Yes. That’s not supposed to happen that way. Wait till they go to.
00:23:05:14 – 00:23:05:19
Ralph
See
00:23:05:19 – 00:23:13:00
Ralph
if that’s for your person that actually asks for help. I don’t ever ask for this. Is my wife off to no end like mine? Just ask somebody like no, no, I’ll figure it out.
00:23:13:04 – 00:23:18:24
John
I know I get something, I’m furniture. I’m like, open it up. I’m like, instructions, okay? I don’t need those. And like, I, I got spare parts before I started.
00:23:18:24 – 00:23:19:10
Ralph
Don’t even though
00:23:19:10 – 00:23:25:04
Ralph
that’s the first thing that goes. It’s like either one of us follow instructions. That’s why we’re entrepreneurs. Seriously, I got.
00:23:25:06 – 00:23:27:24
John
I’m like, that’s your way of doing things. I’m gonna do it better.
00:23:27:27 – 00:23:37:21
Ralph
I’ll figure it out. Although I did put together a bookcase for my wife like a month ago, and I did that and it turned. It was a total disaster. I can’t find, like, where are those goddamn directions?
00:23:37:28 – 00:23:44:04
John
I put together a dresser, and the right panel is flipped the opposite way. So all of the holes are on the right side is on the left. I’m like, I don’t notice.
00:23:44:08 – 00:23:46:22
Ralph
Oh my God, I don’t need it.
00:23:46:23 – 00:23:48:24
John
Then standing for three years is good enough.
00:23:48:25 – 00:23:53:10
Ralph
That’s good, that’s good. That hasn’t fallen down, hasn’t hurt anybody. Then follow when you’re not.
00:23:53:10 – 00:24:14:10
John
Like any of that. So exactly. And here’s the fun part. Remember how I was saying I was scaling up. And now what you just saw here in the last 14 days was this visual here going from a $54,000 a week, an ad spend to a $66,000 a week in Aspen to $110,000 a week and ad spend. So I gave I added $55,000 in ad spend over the last two weeks.
00:24:14:10 – 00:24:30:13
John
And that’s what we saw inside of here. It’s like it’s it’s the last 14 days over 14 days. So I’m measuring like three points of time. This screen you’re comparing four points time last two compared to the first two. And that’s where there’s $72,000 added. Now according to this we’re basically just kind of like hovering like it’s two 3279.
00:24:30:13 – 00:24:48:11
John
Like it was going up and then it did actually come back down. And that’s what you’ll see here. Okay. So if I look at these date range going from 55 to 110, what we’ll see here is that our end went from 212. It did go up to 270 then fell back down to 243. So I basically pay about $30 more per new customer after doubling my ad spend.
00:24:48:16 – 00:25:06:01
John
And because raising first click imports, how much is it costing us? About 48. We’re $18 off after a 50 g increase. But this is also measuring less 14 days of measuring the last three weeks instead of the last four weeks comparative to each other. So it’s okay to be $18 off because we know that went up and then it came back down.
00:25:06:01 – 00:25:24:17
John
What you’re seeing here is a combination of it going up and coming back down, just not as much. So it actually evens out perfectly. So am I looking at the ads? Yes, of course. Am I judging one versus the other? That’s asinine. That is ignorant that that that my opinion just stopped media buying because yeah, it’s so just a part.
00:25:24:24 – 00:25:26:12
John
So that’s what we’re looking at is.
00:25:26:14 – 00:25:27:29
Ralph
But that’s what everybody does John.
00:25:28:06 – 00:25:38:26
John
Right. Right. And it’s almost like if you should do this, like if you just said, hey, what have we increased we increased, we doubled this last two weeks. Cool. What happened. And cake is still below goal. All right. Keep going.
00:25:38:26 – 00:25:40:04
Ralph
Thanks everybody. Keep going.
00:25:40:04 – 00:25:56:13
John
That’s that’s pretty much it. Like summer and cool. There are 72 more new customers now. If I didn’t have data suite I would have killed my middle, which absolutely would have hurt. If I lose 200. Do add two carts a week. I’m totally feeling that now. Could it be picked up by another ad? Perhaps? Could the other ad do better?
00:25:56:13 – 00:26:10:16
John
Perhaps. But you know what this is telling me right here is follow Andromeda. Which means is it a winner? Yes, in my book, when I don’t measure by just last click CPA. Otherwise my dumb ass would be just scaling brand campaigns all the time because it’s last click. It looks like.
00:26:10:17 – 00:26:11:26
Ralph
Great for last click. Yeah, right?
00:26:12:01 – 00:26:26:17
John
Yeah. This is where they ended. Let’s just end more cool. Should we start more. Not on. Don’t just kill the starters. Let’s just end more there. That’s what you’re doing. Yeah. So when we look at this is is it a winner. Absolutely. 4000 AD the cars 200 or 4000 clicks, 232 out of carts is the biggest add to cart.
00:26:26:17 – 00:26:29:26
John
Is this literally more than a quarter of all of my add to cart?
00:26:29:28 – 00:26:30:27
Ralph
Yeah. Oh yeah.
00:26:30:28 – 00:26:31:09
John
Yeah.
00:26:31:09 – 00:26:33:18
Ralph
That’s that’s your bottom of funnel ad right there.
00:26:33:25 – 00:26:46:22
John
That’s like kind of middle bottom. That is a winner for sure. You know what we’re going to do. We’re going to create five new versions of these. So normally it’s like oh that one has a $600 Ncac. Let’s pause it. I’m like, I need five more of those. That’s the difference that we’re dealing with now.
00:26:46:25 – 00:26:48:15
Ralph
It’s really a whole new world, isn’t.
00:26:48:15 – 00:26:51:14
John
That is it’s just like Aladdin said 1996.
00:26:51:16 – 00:27:10:14
Ralph
Yeah. So by the way, the graphic that John showed, I did throw in the Facebook of the meta engineering page, read that one, ladies and gentlemen, see if you understand that. But it basically explains what this whole thing is. And like very intricate technical knowledge. So we’re not making this stuff up. The problem is, is that when matter roll this out.
00:27:10:14 – 00:27:15:11
Ralph
I didn’t tell anybody how to use it. There was no there was no instruction manual. So I couldn’t.
00:27:15:11 – 00:27:15:25
John
Be happier.
00:27:15:25 – 00:27:19:07
Ralph
To. It’s so beautiful. You wouldn’t have read it. They will know that it.
00:27:19:13 – 00:27:34:12
John
I know it’s like, hey, we made nothing of my affair. It out. Yeah, it was funny. It is. You want to know the funniest thing in the world? And this is actually true. Let me go back to here. Okay? I have I have proof I’m going to go back to this date range here, and I’m going to sort.
00:27:34:15 – 00:27:38:25
Ralph
This is you know what I mean. Right after like Black Friday, Cyber Monday.
00:27:38:26 – 00:28:01:13
John
To November 29th to December 2nd. And if you look at this here, if we look at this date range here of this campaign that started on November 25th, we said, hey, for some reason on first click Happy Imports when we just scale up really quickly and we throw all of our budget and we here’s the one I was spending 26 grand on.
00:28:01:19 – 00:28:19:16
John
And we go in here and we say, hey, you know, when we use one campaign and we use one ads, that and we throw all of our ads in there, this thing actually works really, really well. This is an end of November. And then right afterwards, end of November, December 2nd, like now a month afterwards, it’s like, have you seen and drop it?
00:28:19:16 – 00:28:20:10
Ralph
I’m like, Holy shit.
00:28:20:15 – 00:28:22:17
John
So I was honest before it came out.
00:28:22:22 – 00:28:24:03
Ralph
That’s that’s awesome.
00:28:24:07 – 00:28:29:22
John
So this isn’t something that we’re like, oh my God. We’re like jumping on the bandwagon. We were doing this before it was even released.
00:28:29:28 – 00:28:38:26
Ralph
If I recall, the only ads that you were using in this ad account were just UGC. They were just like images of dogs. Correct me if I’m wrong, right.
00:28:38:28 – 00:28:58:10
John
And I actually had a conversation and you’re you’re all going to actually just hop into my to my email. And here we’re just going to take it, we’re going to take a trip together in my email campaign. So this is honestly this is in my email. This was in October index. Right. So this is four days ago. And that’s what we’re saying is here’s here’s my explanation of it.
00:28:58:16 – 00:29:01:26
John
And you’re like be able to see this. But I’m just going to kind of read it off to myself for, for memory.
00:29:02:03 – 00:29:04:24
Ralph
And I said to John’s email, by the way, or reading.
00:29:04:27 – 00:29:25:02
John
I’m reading my email, I’m like an interesting phenomenon with that creative types. I do think UGC is the best type for us with volume. People love seeing happy dogs. That’s very, very common. Like no one has to see a dog. I was sick coming back to life. Everyone unanimously loves that people very much get confirmation of their decision and are also introduced to us with the same UGC ad.
00:29:25:02 – 00:29:25:28
John
But I do.
00:29:26:02 – 00:29:29:17
Ralph
Have to hide her email by the way, unless you want to get deluged with spam. Oh, it’s too late.
00:29:29:18 – 00:29:42:19
John
Oh, if you if you. I’ll just say if you all click on that. John is so late. That thing is dead and gone for like last six months now. But yeah. So so here’s what’s funny is I’m like an interesting phenomenon. I do think UGC is the best type of people very much get confirmation of their decision and are also introduced to us with the same, you see.
00:29:42:25 – 00:29:49:26
John
But I do see better performance of our non. UGC as they’ve been consistently 50 to $100 cheaper with Ncac now CPM platform Ncac.
00:29:49:29 – 00:29:50:16
Ralph
Ncac.
00:29:50:22 – 00:30:05:21
John
Now what I said here is I said I would attribute, no pun intended, this to us introducing the product behind the story. People love dogs. They love dogs. Coming back from illness and love happy endings. Those are great ads. But I do think we tell the other side of story product highlight ads. So what we’re seeing in the data flow is, hey, this dog was sick.
00:30:05:21 – 00:30:18:25
John
Another brought back to life. The people that didn’t click it don’t know why that dog is really happy. So we said, hey, remember that ad that you saw and you’ve been seeing a few of them because we have like 25. UGC running at once, like this is the product that did it and why. And all of a sudden we were like, oh, okay, bye.
00:30:19:00 – 00:30:28:03
John
Or at least they add a cart. So while it works for us, capture our attention with happy healthy puppies and introduce a product afterwards that seems to flow well. I could double the ad spend without hurting myself.
00:30:28:08 – 00:30:42:25
Ralph
That was a real cut. That was a question I had on another client call this week. They said, well, wait a second, are you guys making ads in this new Andromeda thing without any calls to action? Like everything is a website conversion ad technically, and it’s all going to have either learn more, shop now, by now, whatever it is.
00:30:43:00 – 00:30:56:05
Ralph
But in top of funnel ads like you’re not really pushing for conversion or are you like what’s the methodology there? Especially when it comes to, you know, the visual itself as well as the ad copy that’s in the ad?
00:30:56:08 – 00:31:12:19
John
Yeah, the story does most of the ad copy. Okay. So unfortunately might not be able to obviously I can’t even see this, but I will say like 30 days ago I went to a cancer specialist. So it’s a story about the dog. The story. Okay. And then the call to action is learn more. This restored my dog’s health, so it’s almost like an advertorial.
00:31:12:25 – 00:31:22:18
Ralph
So it’s not it’s not really like there’s no link in the copy that that will call to action in the copy. The copy is just reinforcing sort of the story that they’re seeing visually through the UGC.
00:31:22:21 – 00:31:24:11
John
Yeah, it’s really like we do have like heavy.
00:31:24:14 – 00:31:25:13
Ralph
Oh you do have it okay.
00:31:25:13 – 00:31:39:21
John
Yeah we have it I this thing gets no clicks okay. This this gets all the clicks to learn more. But it is something where it’s like, this dog was sick and now they’re back to health and it’s like, cool. If you have a sick dog, you’re capturing attention. You may not click, but you’re capturing attention, especially if it’s around the same illness.
00:31:39:21 – 00:31:49:10
John
So it’s every every single I mean, you’re in this space like, you know, many, many moons ago. It’s a health care. It’s like, do you wake up tired? You’re like, oh my God. Yes, I do that. It’s like introducing sleep.
00:31:49:10 – 00:31:52:25
Ralph
You’re like, whoa, whoa. That’s not basically yeah.
00:31:52:27 – 00:32:05:13
John
And here’s the pain point. Unfortunately, the pain point, we address it by telling success stories that had similar pain points in the past. And you may have right now. And that’s how we’re that’s how we’re connecting with our market. But we’re doing it with, with, you know, dog stories that are coming back to life. They’re coming back to health.
00:32:05:19 – 00:32:15:18
John
So what does everyone love? A happy, healthy dog. What does everybody not love? You want to buy immunity pills for your dog? Not really. Yeah, but I will if you connect those dots for me. I think you, Andromeda.
00:32:15:22 – 00:32:38:11
Ralph
For sure. You want the after state. You don’t necessarily want the feature. You know, you don’t want the product itself. You just want the after states. So that’s really what you’re talking about here? Yeah. Way back when there was a strategy that we deployed. There’s like 3 or 4 years ago before obviously in trauma and all the stuff that’s going on right now is a video of you to conversion campaign, which was like, all right, get your ideal audience.
00:32:38:11 – 00:33:10:03
Ralph
Just get them to view a video and then retarget those video views, three seconds, 15 seconds, 50%, whatever it happens to be to conversion campaigns, it never really worked because it was always like the objective was wrong because they were viewing the video, but they had no intent. And even back 3 or 4 years ago when meta was not what it is today with the Andromeda update, it still had very separate types of, you know, individuals within an interest grouping.
00:33:10:03 – 00:33:29:14
Ralph
In this case, obviously, we’re now using open targeting, but it’s like you’re still using website conversion campaigns. You’re showing them an ad similar to how we used to do it with those video view campaigns to conversion campaigns, which never really works. Right? I don’t really know why, but it really was because meta had identified, oh, these are video watchers, but they’re not necessarily converters.
00:33:29:19 – 00:33:30:07
Ralph
You’re of them.
00:33:30:07 – 00:33:39:10
John
In 2017, 2018, these were really started to hit where it’s like, I want link clicks and you’re like, you’re getting all the clicks. Like, did I get a sale? Like, I don’t know, I’ve got all the clicks.
00:33:39:16 – 00:34:03:00
Ralph
You get all the clickers. Yeah. You know that’s it’s advantage plus sales and it’s like set like like that is the objective. So even if they’re not clicking there’s still potential for them to convert. Because meta has data on all of us. They all that they know our proclivity to watch click purchase on the platform itself. And they understand all that sort of behind it.
00:34:03:00 – 00:34:14:06
Ralph
So that old strategy or like the clicks first, like remember way back when when meta first start. Well, Facebook came out with ads in the newsfeed. It was you do clicks campaigns and then you do conversion campaigns.
00:34:14:06 – 00:34:17:11
John
Things warm them up, get them familiar and then try to convert them. Yeah, we.
00:34:17:11 – 00:34:19:21
Ralph
Were trying to do all of this to like.
00:34:19:21 – 00:34:21:04
John
Explain the meta.
00:34:21:07 – 00:34:24:27
Ralph
Yeah. It’s like an old school feeder straight. So basically it was a feeder strategy. And it’s not.
00:34:25:02 – 00:34:31:10
John
We’re not doing anything different here. We’re just rolling through the same thing for the last 30 years, just with different mediums.
00:34:31:13 – 00:34:40:13
Ralph
Yeah. But there’s a sales intent with these audiences that even if you’re going to open targeting like you’re doing here, I assume there’s there’s no targeting. There’s just geography. Correct?
00:34:40:13 – 00:34:44:22
John
Yeah. Yeah, there’s no targeting exclusion exclusions. We know targeting months ago. Yeah.
00:34:44:24 – 00:35:01:15
Ralph
No targeting. That’s crazy. Who was I talking to this past week? Actually a woman who’s in our space. I was like, oh, how much targeting you’re using? Well, she does regional campaigns. She’s like, that’s the only targeting I’m doing. Like, if I’m trying to fill up, you know, you know, a concert in Denver, I’m just doing like, you know, the Colorado market, that’s all.
00:35:01:16 – 00:35:02:23
Ralph
Yeah. That’s all my targeting.
00:35:02:26 – 00:35:24:15
John
Here’s here’s what’s fun too, is I don’t I don’t want anybody to think like, this is like, yeah, ribs, that kind of stuff. If we look at this one campaign that we’ve doubled 93%, you know, 71% more to customers last 14 days. If I go into edit this ad set, I’m still I can still suggest an audience. My suggestion was like, hey, let’s take out the 18 to 24 year olds.
00:35:24:15 – 00:35:43:07
John
Because if it helps, that’s great. Maybe not a lot of 18 year old kids or I have dogs that are look about their immunity. Other than that, I’m like, that’s so one for sure. I would say I would rather not. If I get it, fine. I still do get 18 to 24. That happens all the time, is still 15% of my traffic would have been 30 maybe, but it is trying to snuff it.
00:35:43:07 – 00:35:47:19
John
So that’s as far as we’ve taken our targeting. Yeah it was. Please know if you can.
00:35:47:22 – 00:35:56:23
Ralph
Thank you. That’s interesting. I mean, yeah, I think even if you did have just 18 to 65, what is it, 64 plus 65 plus nine like meta would figure it out eventually.
00:35:56:29 – 00:36:10:14
John
We’ve got probably would have gotten clicks, maybe gotten a few sales. Maybe they’re more expensive. And then it would have just been like I saw it as a cost gap. Hop on there. They’re dead and gone anyway, right? So right. And I think that’s that’s a really interesting part about this whole thing is that like your creative does the targeting.
00:36:10:14 – 00:36:27:02
John
Like that’s the reason why if you launch multiple campaigns, there’s a massive amount of overlap. If you have the same ad, it just makes it. It’s the creative doing the targeting, not you. It’s actually I interpreting your ad and then go and finding its own audience on its own. But I have different campaigns. Does the I care know does a creative care know.
00:36:27:07 – 00:36:39:25
John
But my ad set is better, does I care? No. Does the ad care? No. Like that’s the thing too is like we can ask it to try to avoid stuff. It wasn’t going to be a pass or fail dependent on it like it would be where people like, well, I’m excluding all of my existing customers.
00:36:39:25 – 00:36:44:10
Ralph
Like that’s the wish list. They’re saying, thank you very much for showing us who to show it to.
00:36:44:16 – 00:36:50:02
John
Like, I know that was that was your your that was on your Christmas list this year. But let me tell you something about Santa Claus.
00:36:50:06 – 00:37:02:28
Ralph
It’s a little sing. They know. Oh, all you can. It’s just. That’s what I was like. You don’t want. Hey. Yeah, that’s what I was like. You know, let me tell you, we don’t want it tonight. We want any kids watching the show. 25 plus, I think is our audience here on the.
00:37:03:00 – 00:37:15:16
John
Ad only suggestion that we had them, which, again, it’s a suggestion. It’s not a law. It’s not a rule. It’s not inclusions and exclusion. It’s a suggestion like that tells you how much you’re targeting is taken seriously. It says, oh, thanks. We’ll take into consideration if you’re right.
00:37:15:21 – 00:37:38:19
Ralph
Have you ever seen a strategy like this or a methodology like this? Expand marketplace like you’re in the, you know, for this one, this example that we’ve used dozens and dozens of times here on the ad lab is in the dog space. I mean, so dog owners come in and out because obviously there’s dogs are going to be sick and then they’re going to get well, then this is like this constant infusion into the market and a rotation in the market.
00:37:38:26 – 00:37:56:03
Ralph
But have you ever seen anything like this expand a market because like a couple clients, like the client, we were just on a on a call was it’s like, I feel like we’ve sort of tapped out our market right now. They’re in the dating niche. It’s like you will never tap out that market really. And this allows you.
00:37:56:05 – 00:38:17:13
Ralph
Yeah, I mean, at a certain point like you do, you’re not scaling, not spending $1 million a day in this market. But I mean, I know in some other markets you’re, you know, doing hundreds of thousands of dollars a day. So where is that? Like if somebody feels like they have tapped out, their market is in drama to the solution or is it solution with, you know, a disclaimer there?
00:38:17:15 – 00:38:32:14
John
Yeah, we we have that one client that spends a quarter million dollars a day. Yeah. We’ve we’ve kind of tapped out. A lot of people that I’ve talked to have heard about the brand. Now, have they bought it. Have they tried it. No they’ve heard about it. Okay. So at that point in time it’s well maybe we didn’t hit right pinpoint hook an offer.
00:38:32:14 – 00:38:48:04
John
So if you are like yeah, it’s like hey have you heard of, you know, Mountain Dew or like I’ve heard of it, like, have you try Mountain Dew? No. Well, you’re still my targeting then. I just haven’t convinced you yet. Right. So my question is, is have they tapped out? Everybody that’s looking to date and are on Facebook as an example.
00:38:48:08 – 00:39:09:13
John
The answer might be yes, they have 100 million impressions and there’s approximately maybe a hundred million people like a day, maybe some of our married. But they said, what a day. There’s 100 million people. Okay, cool. Now have you gotten 100? But you’ve gotten the click from everyone? No, there’s still work to be done, technically. I mean, you’re not talking about exponential growth after that, but 5% of 100 million still a big leap up.
00:39:09:13 – 00:39:29:24
John
So that’s my question. I guess I would say is unless you say, hey, we’ve tapped out a market because we’ve done every ad possible, every hug, every pain point, you know, every offer, every product development. We’ve even increased our our our effectiveness of our products. Last service 20 x this last two years and still no one cares. Okay, once you can prove that, then yes.
00:39:29:24 – 00:39:33:26
John
I don’t think that that’s happened yet because otherwise eHarmony would still be like, oh, I can’t get better than I spend.
00:39:34:02 – 00:39:39:07
Ralph
Yeah, right. But there is probably a top level of spend that you can spend there. Yeah, whatever. Whatever it is.
00:39:39:10 – 00:39:46:03
John
So yeah, you’re going to plateau. But you could still but once you reach that level, a small blip up because $25 million net profit that year.
00:39:46:05 – 00:40:09:16
Ralph
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So it’s like I, I do think I mean, you’re answering the question, but which is no market is, you know, limitless. However, this is as far as I have seen, one of the best ways and one of the best methodologies to expand the market and to deliver your brand message to a wider audience and expand your personal Tam for your brand.
00:40:09:20 – 00:40:26:22
Ralph
Yeah, unlike anything else that I’ve ever seen in this platform, you know, and it certainly seems like that is the case. I mean, obviously every market has its limits, but in the dating market, they’re spending $100,000 a month. It’s like, I know for a fact you could probably spend 510 x. That is my guess in their specific niche.
00:40:26:27 – 00:40:38:07
Ralph
But you have to obviously do the research. But Andromeda’s this update has allowed a lot of businesses to be able to expand far beyond what they thought, using more traditional means, that’s for sure.
00:40:38:14 – 00:40:53:19
John
I haven’t tapped out a market yet, like we’re still growing with that company that spends 250 K a day like it’s it’s growth, it’s small, it’s short, it’s growth. But we’re also pretty much just ad meta. So that’s the other part too, is like we haven’t actually reached into like the TikTok. The I’m not going to go to app 11.
00:40:53:19 – 00:41:12:28
John
That’s just apps remarketing. But TikTok and you know Snapchat would be very small TV. You know CTV we haven’t been done that yet. And Google is still just direct response number and standard shopping. It works about oh I can scale up. Oh dramatic. I mean there’s many other channels we can go into. Yes. Now can we use meta as our creative testing environment for all channels?
00:41:12:28 – 00:41:32:23
John
Absolutely. I mean, now here’s a dumb thing that’s funny. I was I was actually gonna mention is Nike makes 4.94 billion annually. There’s only 320 million or 320 million humans in the United States as an example. Now, I know Nike’s global but 320 million humans, they’re not all Nike buyers, and a lot of them aren’t even old enough to wear Nike’s.
00:41:32:23 – 00:41:49:06
John
If you think about the kids between the ages of zero and five, you take out probably like 30 million. They’ve been able to extract $15.44 per person alive in the United States every year. So. So it’s funny, even if you didn’t buy their shoes, if you’re like 320 million people all gave them 15 bucks every year, that’s their gross profit.
00:41:49:06 – 00:42:05:03
John
So it’s it’s massive, massive. And it’s like, can you wear shoes? Yes. Well, if you’re interested in dating, there’s probably one third of that. But where’s your 2 billion this year. Right. So I would say I don’t really see many people that have really saturated the market enough. Now could they scale up a campaign a meta until his point was absolutely.
00:42:05:03 – 00:42:25:06
John
But we’re talking about everything else in history. No, you can you can still do a lot more, but maybe just to watch or that’s not the goal of the company. It makes a lot of sense. But I have seen it grow an industry. Never neato. Yeah. You know, it did. Like that’s something we still do. We do a lot of marketing for that agency, which is super niche, should say Montessori marketing school.
00:42:25:09 – 00:42:25:27
John
They find.
00:42:25:27 – 00:42:26:19
Ralph
That out of schools.
00:42:26:25 – 00:42:44:16
John
That’s 16,000 and it’s no growing, but it is expanding the way that schools are thinking about their business. So it is growing a market because right there, we didn’t really have a bunch of 40, 50 year old female school owners who have never touched a computer in a marketing sense. We didn’t have a lot of those people knocking on our door saying, I’d like this, but now we do.
00:42:44:16 – 00:42:50:08
John
So it did grow a market for sure. Yeah, I would say that’s absolutely possible. Now, the other thing I wanted to think about, though, is you
00:42:50:08 – 00:42:53:26
John
made a point earlier where you have, you know, the clicks versus the conversions.
00:42:53:26 – 00:43:01:18
John
I was one of the earlier adopters in the saying, it looks like Google and that are moving towards do you want traffic or do you want conversions like you can like choose one or the other?
00:43:01:23 – 00:43:02:11
Ralph
Exactly.
00:43:02:16 – 00:43:17:17
John
Those are two different profiles on people. So can you grow a market if you’re only doing converters? No, because they have to say I’m in the market and now I’m in. You’re targeting the not market. Those are things like the feeder strategy, the run of your content, those feeder campaigns that we run view contents that will grow a market.
00:43:17:17 – 00:43:20:21
John
They need both of those to continue to scale because you’re feeding yourself your own users.
00:43:20:21 – 00:43:31:13
John
But yes, like if I’m doing a conversion campaign, it’s my assumption that Google has people that they have already indicated that they’re in the market or would be in the market, or taking action for something like this that could be in the market soon.
00:43:31:15 – 00:43:37:20
John
And I’m just I’m saturating that entire market. And so far we’re spending like 600 grand a month and we still haven’t hit our ceiling yet. So,
00:43:37:20 – 00:43:40:16
John
yeah, there’s a pretty, pretty good amount of room to grow.
00:43:40:19 – 00:44:00:07
Ralph
Have you looked at your reach on those campaigns, like on the the dog space? They’re like, oh yeah, global reach. Like unique reach. Oh yes. I mean, yeah. Reach is sort of relative because like, there’s people that are coming in and out of that market. Obviously there are dogs that are becoming less sick and more sick as the market expands.
00:44:00:07 – 00:44:03:08
Ralph
So looking at that would be an interesting thing.
00:44:03:12 – 00:44:19:02
John
Yeah. Like this one here is a small company. This is like the narrow one that’s putting out 13 K. This is only in Ireland UK and starting to not hit saturation but starting to kind of fatigue a bit. We can kind of see that the as we started with our scaling up a little bit and spend, but we’re starting to see like a little bit of a softening lately.
00:44:19:02 – 00:44:26:03
John
So we’re going to do a creative iteration. That’s the next next thing. So like it’s relative I think to the location of the art just.
00:44:26:03 – 00:44:27:18
Ralph
Might mean you need a creative refresh.
00:44:27:22 – 00:44:39:16
John
For sure. I mean, like now a creative refresh means like, hey, we burn through all the people that we think need to see this ad, and now it’s heading on the other side. Now, could it expand further? Yeah, absolutely. Did it. No, it could probably not. It needs more data. But when we do the create a refresh. Yes.
00:44:39:16 – 00:44:56:23
John
But we had 12 million people a month in terms of impressions. Reaches for 4 million. So I mean, when you’re spending 329,000 and you’re getting one tenth, no, sorry, 100th of the population, the United States not too bad. So there’s still some a lot of room to grow.
00:44:56:26 – 00:44:57:27
Ralph
There’s a lot of room to grow.
00:44:58:06 – 00:45:18:29
Ralph
All right. Hope you enjoyed this week’s episode. This is obviously one of the many, many episodes that we’ve done on the AD Lab, which we do each Friday, Friday, 230 eastern on most days. Unless John and I have some sort of personal conflict. But we’ve done 59 shows this and most of it has been on the Meta Andromeda update.
00:45:18:29 – 00:45:19:16
Ralph
So
00:45:19:16 – 00:45:36:03
Ralph
for those of you who are just sick and tired of just trying to figure this out on your own, like I mentioned at the start of the show here today, we’ve got a special offer for you which you can head on over to tier 11.com/apply and get. Today we’re only giving away 11 of these. And once again it’s by the creative diversification package.
00:45:36:05 – 00:45:58:14
Ralph
The package that we’ve been talking about here for months and have perfected with the ten different ad types which we’ve shown on this show numerous times, but also we’ve talked about on the AD Lab live, you get the creative diversification package, which is the key to success with Meta Andromeda right now. But you will get your media buying in the tier 11 data suite for free.
00:45:58:16 – 00:46:20:05
Ralph
Yes, it is a buy one get two free offer. We are only offering this through the end of this year, and you get first access to it here at Perpetual Traffic. Because you’ve been listening and watching these shows, you understand it. And I know this stuff ain’t easy, but our team has perfected it thanks to John’s guidance as our chief strategist over tier 11.
00:46:20:05 – 00:46:25:07
Ralph
So head on over to tier 11.com/apply fill in the application,
00:46:25:07 – 00:46:32:17
Ralph
By the creative diversification package. But get the media buying and the tier 11 data suite absolutely for free.
00:46:32:17 – 00:46:51:09
Ralph
on behalf of my amazing co-host Lauren Petrillo and John Moran, thank you so much for listening, everyone. Of course, leave a rating and review if you like. This podcast here gets us out to a larger, wider audience. Teaches people how to do this stuff the right way through metrics to matter and gross that scales.
00:46:51:11 – 00:46:53:06
Ralph
until the next show. See you.
