Are you flying blind with your ad data? With ad blockers, privacy laws, and tracking issues, Meta can’t always give you the full picture. So how do you trust your numbers and make better decisions for your business?
In today’s episode, we tackle a crucial topic for anyone managing Meta ads: how to optimize data for accurate results. Joined by Cameron Campbell, we explain the difference between Meta’s Conversion API (CAPI) and the Tier 11 Data Suite, and why relying on just in-platform metrics can lead you to make costly mistakes.
We also talk about the role of first-party data and why it’s the foundation for building a solid marketing strategy. We wrap up with proven strategies on improving your ad campaign’s performance, understanding customer acquisition costs, and knowing when to pull the plug on underperforming campaigns.
In this episode:
02:53 What are Marketing Performance Indicators (MPIs)?
05:07 The problem with Meta’s in-platform data
10:20 Comparing Meta’s CAPI with Tier 11 Data Suite
14:18 Differences between first-party and third-party data
18:23 How to measure customer acquisition costs accurately
22:21 Measuring nCAC with Tier 11 Data Suite vs. CAPI
29:53 Comparing data in Meta vs Tier 11 Data Suite’s interfaces
38:33 Understanding time lag and how it impacts your decisions
Mentioned in the Episode:
- Get Your Marketing Performance Indicators (MPIs) Checklist Now: https://www.tiereleven.com/mpi
Listen to this episode on your favorite podcast channel:
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We appreciate your support!
Visit our website: https://perpetualtraffic.com/
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Connect with Cameron Campbell
Connect with Ralph Burns:
- LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/ralphburns
- Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/ralphhburns/
- Hire Tier11 – https://www.tiereleven.com/apply-now
Connect with Lauren Petrullo:
- Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/laurenepetrullo/
- LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurenpetrullo
- Consult Mongoose Media – https://mongoosemedia.us/
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READ THE TRANSCRIPT:
Stop Wasting Ad Spend: This Tool Guarantees Accurate Customer Data
00:00:00:00 – 00:00:04:14
Ralph
there is a lot of money on the line here, and you need to be able to make accurate decisions
00:00:04:14 – 00:00:05:27
Ralph
based upon true data, as
00:00:06:06 – 00:00:09:21
Cameron
model data is a big problem because if you are looking in platform,
00:00:09:21 – 00:00:11:09
Cameron
basically what method is doing is
00:00:11:09 – 00:00:14:15
Cameron
we’re just going to try and estimate based on how many people are,
00:00:14:15 – 00:00:15:14
Cameron
clicking away from our ad, how
00:00:15:14 – 00:00:16:26
Cameron
How many people are purchasing.
00:00:16:26 – 00:00:19:17
Cameron
what percentage of those people are taking what action.
00:00:19:17 – 00:00:20:16
Cameron
this looks like it is
00:00:20:16 – 00:00:21:15
Cameron
very accurate
00:00:21:15 – 00:00:24:23
Cameron
you’ve had all these sales, and you can look at your Shopify dashboard
00:00:24:23 – 00:00:25:23
Cameron
you’re not getting anything.
00:00:26:04 – 00:00:27:13
Ralph
What is the difference
00:00:27:13 – 00:00:28:05
Ralph
between
00:00:28:05 – 00:00:28:20
Ralph
Capi
00:00:28:20 – 00:00:29:02
Ralph
and
00:00:29:02 – 00:00:30:08
Ralph
tier 11 data suite?
00:00:30:08 – 00:00:31:14
Ralph
How are they similar?
00:00:31:14 – 00:00:31:29
Ralph
What’s your
00:00:31:29 – 00:00:32:15
Ralph
take on it.
00:00:32:15 – 00:00:34:15
Cameron
we have the luxury of having
00:00:34:15 – 00:00:36:24
Cameron
other metrics that don’t exist and
00:00:36:24 – 00:00:38:00
Cameron
as manager. So
00:00:40:01 – 00:00:44:27
Ralph
And we are live. Welcome
00:00:44:27 – 00:00:48:11
Ralph
and alongside me here today is not John Moran,
00:00:48:11 – 00:00:51:26
Ralph
but a younger, better looking meta,
00:00:51:26 – 00:00:54:14
Ralph
expert that John Moran is not.
00:00:54:14 – 00:00:55:10
Ralph
Cameron Campbell
00:00:55:10 – 00:00:57:08
Ralph
And today we’re going to be getting into some,
00:00:57:08 – 00:01:02:01
Ralph
pretty interesting stuff. I know a lot of the questions that we’ve got here are more Google related.
00:01:02:02 – 00:01:06:07
Ralph
We’ll we’ll get to those as much as we possibly can. But,
00:01:06:07 – 00:01:07:28
Ralph
yeah. Excited to have you on today.
00:01:07:28 – 00:01:08:29
Ralph
Cameron, welcome back.
00:01:08:29 – 00:01:19:01
Cameron
It’s funny because I noticed last time I looked very tanned. And basically my camera has one of these, like, beauty features on because I reset the settings. So I must have looked like,
00:01:19:01 – 00:01:21:05
Cameron
like a candle or something.
00:01:21:07 – 00:01:25:05
Ralph
Yeah. You were looking particularly handsome, I saw that. I saw the light.
00:01:25:07 – 00:01:33:10
Cameron
Bonfires, and it was. I wasn’t reality on my friends. That’s all right. But if anyone’s watching for Valentine’s Day, that was. That was not. That guy’s gone. He was last guy’s.
00:01:33:10 – 00:01:44:13
Ralph
God, that was last week. This week is the real Cameron. Well, I’m, like, washed out white guy here. I like this new camera that I have that doesn’t have any beauty settings. So you got me just the way that I am here today.
00:01:44:13 – 00:01:48:08
Ralph
Sometimes, John, we sort of joke with him because he has got, like, the black background.
00:01:48:08 – 00:01:58:07
Ralph
And then if he wears a black shirt, his head, he looks like the floating ghost, like Casper the Friendly Ghost, kind of in the screen. So at least we’re colorized. At least we’re not, like, shocking, right?
00:01:58:10 – 00:02:02:08
Cameron
Like, for me, John’s is Bohemian Rhapsody. It’s the album, the video if like,
00:02:02:08 – 00:02:04:02
Cameron
oh, that’s exactly what he’s doing.
00:02:04:05 – 00:02:16:22
Ralph
That’s totally it. That’s it. Yeah. With the the under lighting, you need that effect. So. All right. Well cool. Well today we’re going to talk a little bit about some technical stuff. And then we’re going to get into
00:02:16:22 – 00:02:21:09
Ralph
something that has been very impressive to me. And I know
00:02:21:09 – 00:02:24:22
Ralph
you have made a study of understanding a lot of the MPI.
00:02:24:22 – 00:02:27:08
Ralph
So a lot of the marketing performance indicators,
00:02:27:08 – 00:02:29:19
Ralph
from a meta standpoint, primarily
00:02:29:19 – 00:02:46:05
Ralph
not necessarily Google. You have an understanding of it over on there as well, but it’s just a generalized understanding of what these things are. And just as a step backwards, in case if you don’t have them yet, just download the spreadsheet, just download the checklist so you can get on the same page with us here.
00:02:46:09 – 00:03:06:24
Ralph
It’s over a tier 11.com/mpi. That’s for tier 11.com/mpi. We talked about it a perpetual traffic all the time. The NPIs or marketing performance metrics or what they we call them are just a means to achieve an end for a client. And when clients come to us, as Cameron has done many times inside tier 11,
00:03:06:24 – 00:03:08:13
Ralph
and you also have your own e-commerce business.
00:03:08:13 – 00:03:11:09
Ralph
So you are a business owner too, which is very cool.
00:03:11:09 – 00:03:23:05
Ralph
So these are just metrics we use in order to achieve a business outcome. And that business outcome is whatever the goal is. The big goal is like we have a client. You
00:03:23:05 – 00:03:30:16
Ralph
have a client that you’re working on. They want 12 million in revenue this year. I don’t know if they have the profitability goal, but that’s like their big goal.
00:03:30:23 – 00:03:37:15
Ralph
So then from that goal, we sort of begin with the end in mind and then figure out, okay, how do we get there.
00:03:37:15 – 00:03:53:10
Ralph
Is it new customer acquisition? Is it you know, getting customers to buy more when they buy, meaning increase their average order value, get them to buy more often, maybe increasing LTV that’s those are basically the three ways in which you can grow a business.
00:03:53:12 – 00:04:02:11
Ralph
And so the combination of those three are through the NPIs. The NPIs are just a means to measure how to get to the big goal.
00:04:02:11 – 00:04:07:08
Ralph
Does that make sense? Is that resonate with you? And is that something that you have conversations with clients about?
00:04:07:08 – 00:04:39:04
Cameron
Yeah, exactly. And it’s one of those things that, you know, it’s new to everyone. It’s still a it’s still a challenge. The industry has been focused on and platform metrics for so long now, and even just front end metrics. So people are coming on to Ncac and stuff now, but it’s still in education, and that’s part of the some of the conversations I’ve had this week with clients that we’ve been, you know, doing this for, for some time now, but you can see that they still don’t really understand it, and they know what’s good, but they don’t understand fully that that full suite of things are,
00:04:39:04 – 00:04:40:19
Cameron
acting on the business.
00:04:40:22 – 00:04:55:05
Cameron
And that’s what we’re trying to do more to make sure that you’re concrete. They understand. Exactly. Well, why are we actually making you go to an Ncac target? This is why it’s good. And this is why, when we scale aggressively, sometimes some of your other metrics are going to come down. But it always comes back to those NPIs.
00:04:55:05 – 00:04:56:25
Cameron
And, you know, that’s that’s really
00:04:56:25 – 00:05:07:17
Cameron
what we were trying to do and just help them understand because we know it’s good, but it’s just making sure that they know it’s good and they can present to their superiors as well why we’re doing things the way we’re doing it. Basically.
00:05:07:20 – 00:05:14:05
Ralph
And, you know, if you are an agency and you’re listening to this or you do this for a living and you either do it for your own business,
00:05:14:05 – 00:05:16:16
Ralph
this is a new way of looking at how to market.
00:05:16:16 – 00:05:19:24
Ralph
And we found that, yeah,
00:05:19:24 – 00:05:25:07
Ralph
the in-app metrics used to be the real judge and jury, like the source of truth years ago.
00:05:25:11 – 00:05:26:23
Ralph
That is no longer the case
00:05:26:23 – 00:05:42:12
Ralph
because there are a lot of things that now block that from being the source of truth, which we’ll get into here in just a second. So you need a data solution in order to be able to read the tea leaves, to get the right metrics, to move the business in the right way.
00:05:42:12 – 00:05:55:20
Ralph
Otherwise, you know, if you’re just using Google Analytics or if you’re just using Capi, when we’ll talk about that here today, that data might not be as pure as it possibly could be. And that’s really at the heart of this. Like
00:05:55:20 – 00:06:01:29
Ralph
there’s the high goal of the business, there’s the empires. And then once you establish those NPIs,
00:06:01:29 – 00:06:03:02
Ralph
what do you actually do?
00:06:03:15 – 00:06:09:11
Ralph
And the data tells you what to do. So it’s almost like those three levels that you sort of have to understand.
00:06:09:11 – 00:06:33:06
Ralph
The purer the data is, the more accurate the data is, the less model, the data is, and more the less AI algorithm. We don’t really know, like a Google Analytics kind of does. And like a lot of the third party attribution softwares to the less your ability is to be able to hit the empties and ultimately achieve your goal as a business.
00:06:33:08 – 00:06:49:27
Ralph
So it’s sort of that level and it’s amazing to me. Cameron, I’ve had, I think, three calls this week with would be prospects for tier 11, where we’re going through this and I’m amazing. There was one yesterday. These guys
00:06:49:27 – 00:06:57:06
Ralph
like I love the business that they’re in. It’s a $7 million business. They don’t know how much they can pay to acquire a customer.
00:06:57:08 – 00:07:17:00
Ralph
They have no idea. So like a lot of businesses, this is a new thing because you used to say, well, I’m going to hire an agency. I just hire an agency and they’ll figure it out. Well, no, this is actually a two way street. You really do need to. And I know you’ve had challenges with this. I know some of the people that are listening today or watching today have had challenges with this.
00:07:17:02 – 00:07:19:26
Ralph
Some clients just don’t want to change.
00:07:19:26 – 00:07:37:18
Ralph
And sometimes it’s it’s really hard, whether it’s because of privacy issues, because maybe they don’t trust you, maybe they just don’t get it quite yet. And this is a shift in mindset more than anything else, as opposed to us just, you know, coming down from the mountain and saying, this is the way that it needs to be.
00:07:37:18 – 00:07:51:11
Ralph
We’re trying to educate the world, but this is actually how you move the business forward. And the example of this week, John, myself and TJ, who’s our VP of sales, will probably come on tier 11 live at some point in time. It’s like
00:07:51:11 – 00:07:53:00
Ralph
if we just started running traffic
00:07:53:00 – 00:07:56:18
Ralph
this group without an echo, we would have helped them go out of business faster.
00:07:57:09 – 00:07:58:16
Cameron
So common. Yeah.
00:07:58:18 – 00:08:08:08
Ralph
It’s so common. And that’s terrible. Like you don’t want that as an agency and a one, two, three months they would have been gone. I was talking to John about it, just this morning actually texting back and forth. Like
00:08:08:08 – 00:08:16:13
Ralph
if we started without doing this analysis, they’d be gone and probably we might actually bankrupt them if we did what
00:08:16:13 – 00:08:17:28
Ralph
they told us to do.
00:08:18:01 – 00:08:23:01
Ralph
And I think that’s a new way of looking at things now. So anyway, coming back to this, it’s,
00:08:23:07 – 00:08:39:10
Cameron
But I was also just quickly add, Ralph, I think you can get very big based on luck. So like the example you’re talking about, you know, 7 million in revenue, if you have a good product or you’re in like a good period where the market’s just hot, you can quite you can get quite big without knowing these numbers.
00:08:39:10 – 00:09:01:08
Cameron
And I think that’s why it’s been so common, especially in the big booming years for e-commerce, especially at the start of Covid ever. Everyone really grew businesses. They didn’t have the stuff dial down, and then they’re now either going down the way that you’re saying, going out of business because they’re scaling or they’re stuck and they can’t scale and they don’t know why, and it’s because they’re not looking at these NPIs and seeing what actually maybe the business is looking good.
00:09:01:08 – 00:09:09:16
Cameron
You’re just looking at the wrong thing because you’ve got a problem with retention or repeat customers or something. It’s not actually your acquisition that might be perfect. Right?
00:09:09:19 – 00:09:11:13
Ralph
Right. Yeah. I mean,
00:09:11:13 – 00:09:13:13
Ralph
there was a huge boom in, in commerce, obviously in
00:09:13:13 – 00:09:29:06
Ralph
2020 and 2021, and a lot of those businesses ceased to exist in 2022. So it’s now it’s a it’s a harder place to be if you’ve got a great product you can get by. You’re absolutely right. And this client specifically great organic great.
00:09:29:09 – 00:09:46:06
Ralph
You know, Amazon sales probably spending too much money on the Amazon side but has never really applied paid traffic in the right way and just wanted a next level of skill. And that’s why they came to us. So we’re sort of slowing down the whole process, trying to figure it out, getting to the point where like, all right, let’s figure out what an end is.
00:09:46:06 – 00:09:49:04
Ralph
And then ultimately get you to your goals. So,
00:09:49:04 – 00:09:52:05
Ralph
before we get into some of the stuff that you want to talk about, I know there’s,
00:09:52:05 – 00:10:03:23
Ralph
there’s a point of clarification that we want to make sure that we’re clear on, and we’ve gotten some questions on this in previous tier 11 lives are getting a lot on our socials right now, which is we’ve talked about tier 11 data suite.
00:10:03:23 – 00:10:08:02
Ralph
You’re obviously super familiar with it. You understand how the whole thing works.
00:10:08:02 – 00:10:20:07
Ralph
One of the biggest questions that we seem to be getting these days, and we were proponents of this as well, which I think is a good thing to do no matter what is conversions are installing conversions, API or Capi.
00:10:20:07 – 00:10:26:08
Ralph
What is the difference between Capi and tier 11 data suite?
00:10:26:10 – 00:10:32:03
Ralph
How do they differ? How are they similar? What’s your perception of it? What’s your take on it.
00:10:32:08 – 00:10:38:08
Cameron
Yeah. So I’m basically going to share screen and talk you through this. So better for me to make sure
00:10:38:08 – 00:10:39:29
Cameron
I can actually do those correctly. I love.
00:10:39:29 – 00:10:40:12
Ralph
Sharing.
00:10:40:12 – 00:10:41:06
Cameron
Screen.
00:10:41:08 – 00:10:42:27
Ralph
Share screen I always tell you
00:10:42:27 – 00:10:52:23
Ralph
I say you know I love it. It’s like show and tell a Friday. It’s great. Now it’s with Cameron. You’re still can though. You’re like naturally ten I think.
00:10:52:23 – 00:11:02:23
Cameron
Well, well I’m in Argentina so it does help. It’s their summer. That’s that part of it. But yeah it’s not I’m not I’m not perfect but it and I’m just.
00:11:02:25 – 00:11:04:00
Ralph
You’re pretty tight time.
00:11:04:00 – 00:11:17:00
Cameron
Real time. Yeah. So you shouldn’t be saying you should be seeing the chart. You should be seeing Cappy on screen. Is that correct or is it some technical issues? Okay. Now it’s beautiful. So what I’m going to do is I’m going to talk through
00:11:17:00 – 00:11:21:06
Cameron
conversions API Capella it’s known as well first. Then I’m going to talk through the data suite.
00:11:21:06 – 00:11:28:19
Cameron
And then I’ll show you a little thing I’ve put together overlaying Cappy onto the the basic drawing that you
00:11:28:19 – 00:11:44:14
Cameron
presented the other week for your data suite. Now, these graphs aren’t obviously made. Exactly. It’s not perfect because there’s different sources. So some of the things might seem different. Like I’ll talk you through it and make sure you understand.
00:11:44:16 – 00:11:54:18
Cameron
Try to ignore some certain things in the the illustrations because they’re not they’re not exactly correct how the sort of relationships work. But we’ll work with it anyway. Okay.
00:11:54:18 – 00:12:11:03
Cameron
So conversions API, the thing that we told everyone to install to enrich their data basically is a way of getting around app blockers and browser blockers, things that are basically removing your data from coming back to the app platform.
00:12:11:03 – 00:12:13:18
Cameron
Specifically, metaphor comprises API.
00:12:13:18 – 00:12:43:11
Cameron
So what’s going to happen in the environment of conversions? API is someone’s going to click on the ads and they’re going to have a click ID and their URL from meta, their FB cleared. So they’re then going to move to your website okay. What was happening before when iOS 14 came into play was that click ID was being removed by the browser, and meta was losing any awareness of who that person was.
00:12:43:11 – 00:13:05:22
Cameron
Okay, so this clicked on an ad and they’re basically just going into no man’s land. There’s no way now to tie them back to your ad, right? So what they did is they brought into play conversions API. And what that would do is you’re still losing that the ID, but the the server that your website is hosted on is able to look at what the people are doing on the website and via the API, which is this section here.
00:13:05:25 – 00:13:07:27
Cameron
Feed that first party data.
00:13:07:27 – 00:13:14:08
Cameron
So names email addresses from the website back to the ad platforms.
00:13:14:08 – 00:13:34:02
Cameron
And then what meta would do is they would look at the names they have for people, the contact information they have for people, email addresses, the first party data they would hash, the data coming with the API, match it up, and they would try to basically match people that were coming from your API to the people that had clicked on your original ad, or
00:13:34:02 – 00:13:35:10
Cameron
viewed through on your actual ad.
00:13:35:11 – 00:13:37:14
Cameron
Okay. And that’s that
00:13:37:14 – 00:13:50:22
Cameron
was partially right. It was better than having no data, but you’re losing a lot of data because the server has no idea who these people are. It’s just relying on the names and email addresses that it’s passing back to. Meta. And
00:13:50:22 – 00:13:55:00
Cameron
anyone who signs up to an account knows you might have multiple different,
00:13:55:00 – 00:13:55:22
Cameron
email addresses.
00:13:55:22 – 00:13:59:15
Cameron
You might have different names that you’re using for your actual,
00:13:59:15 – 00:14:07:22
Cameron
you know, your, your account, your credit card, whatever. They’re not going to tie up perfectly. So there’s a lot of data lost in this situation. Okay.
00:14:07:22 – 00:14:13:10
Cameron
So essentially that is basically passing first party data to the ad platforms.
00:14:13:10 – 00:14:16:03
Cameron
And then meta does this thing where it tries to match people up.
00:14:16:03 – 00:14:19:08
Cameron
That’s in a nutshell, what conversion API is doing
00:14:19:08 – 00:14:46:26
Ralph
So the question then becomes and where is like just at a base level is first party data by capturing it on your own, like we used Google Tag Manager when we did this, obviously. But first party data is being captured by your website, so therefore it’s yours. So therefore that is the reason why this whole thing works. And you’re you’re passing it back to the ad platform as a first party data.
00:14:46:26 – 00:14:53:07
Ralph
Maybe you can explain the difference between first party and third party, because I think that’s where people a lot of people get tripped up.
00:14:53:09 – 00:14:56:06
Cameron
Okay. Yeah. So first party data,
00:14:56:06 – 00:15:10:13
Cameron
of course, is the data that’s coming directly from you, like you said, is the website. Third party data is coming via the pixel. So it’s the it’s not your data, it’s something. Sit down on your website. It’s passing that back to the
00:15:10:13 – 00:15:19:06
Cameron
the ad platforms essentially. So it’s you own this data is people actually buying from you giving you the email address and things.
00:15:19:08 – 00:15:26:00
Cameron
The other version, I guess it’s like watching what’s happening rather than being the actual, you know, first party data.
00:15:26:03 – 00:15:35:02
Ralph
Right? So you’re using the pixel in this case, the pixel then becomes the third party in this whole thing. And the reason, oh,
00:15:35:02 – 00:15:48:23
Ralph
why API that copy works through the data through the API is because you are the first party that you actually own it, provided that you have a privacy policy on your page. You can do all this.
00:15:48:26 – 00:16:06:26
Ralph
You stay, you know, aboveboard, with all the privacy restrictions that are not only in the United States but internationally. So there is that whole thing when when the data comes back. And one of the things that we would always sort of check with the MQ score inside meta specifically, we’re talking about meta here, just in this specific example,
00:16:06:26 – 00:16:16:20
Ralph
is the MQ score was our indication that we were getting a better match rate on specific events with Capi, and we did see an increase in that efficiency.
00:16:16:20 – 00:16:24:01
Ralph
Can you talk to that and what that really means for you on a day to day basis, managing ads inside the platform itself?
00:16:24:03 – 00:16:44:09
Cameron
Yeah. Well, I mean, a better MQ essentially for us is meaning we’re getting better data back in our campaigns. So those campaigns have more data. It’s a machine learning platform. They are better at optimizing. So essentially we can get better results because the machine is smarter, is getting better match rates,
00:16:44:09 – 00:16:51:03
Cameron
from the data coming back. So conversion API know that if you if you’re just using pixel is a massive step up.
00:16:51:03 – 00:16:57:08
Cameron
And yeah, having it in place was the right thing to do until something new came along.
00:16:57:10 – 00:17:13:14
Ralph
Right. And the other part to this is that, okay, you’re getting better data than what you were getting blinded to. I remember you were a part of this in 2021, when this whole thing hit in the summer of 2021. And then all of a sudden it was I mean, it was just a nightmare because.
00:17:13:14 – 00:17:14:21
Cameron
As terrible.
00:17:14:24 – 00:17:21:10
Ralph
As terrible Facebook at that point in time, I believe it was just Facebook. It wasn’t meta yet. So my memory serves me correctly.
00:17:21:10 – 00:17:21:29
Ralph
they were caught
00:17:21:29 – 00:17:33:19
Ralph
this came out of nowhere. They were ill prepared. And Cappy came out of that months later, which did restore some of the data inside the platform. But all of a sudden we were completely flying blind.
00:17:33:19 – 00:17:43:00
Ralph
And especially for I remember for some of our I wouldn’t even say like higher end. But iPhone users, Apple users tend to be, you know,
00:17:43:00 – 00:17:46:17
Ralph
higher end buyers. And I remember one at one account in particular,
00:17:46:17 – 00:17:51:01
Ralph
we lost 60 to 70% of our conversions literally overnight.
00:17:51:28 – 00:17:53:06
Cameron
Yeah, crazy.
00:17:53:09 – 00:17:59:02
Ralph
And Facebook didn’t have an answer to it. And so Cappy was an outgrowth of that. But
00:17:59:02 – 00:18:05:09
Ralph
there was a there was a long time, it seemed like forever, but it was 3 to 6 months, I think it took us at least six months
00:18:05:09 – 00:18:11:21
Ralph
to install Cappy in all of our accounts. And it still was a process because it was clunky and so forth.
00:18:11:24 – 00:18:16:05
Ralph
But all during that time, and even to this day,
00:18:16:05 – 00:18:32:08
Ralph
Facebook and meta in particular still isn’t getting all the data. They’re still modeling a fair amount of data. Can you speak to that and like what you think as far as a percentage goes, like how accurate you’re seeing things inside platform, how much is modeled? How much is actual?
00:18:32:08 – 00:18:40:05
Ralph
How much does Cappy really, you know, enhance things. But then there’s also sort of this whole other, you know,
00:18:40:05 – 00:18:43:07
Ralph
a segment of users that are just never going to be captured.
00:18:43:11 – 00:19:03:10
Cameron
Yeah. I mean, in terms of actual percentages, I don’t I don’t really know what what it would be. The reality is this is and I think other people at the same who are using tier 11 data suite is we don’t really look too much at the in platform numbers anymore because it is just a lot of nonsense and we have the data so we can look elsewhere.
00:19:03:13 – 00:19:03:29
Cameron
But
00:19:03:29 – 00:19:07:14
Cameron
model data is a big problem because if you are looking in platform,
00:19:07:14 – 00:19:10:28
Cameron
basically what method is doing is they’re going, okay, we don’t have
00:19:10:28 – 00:19:15:19
Cameron
oversight into what is actually happening on the website. We don’t have the connection anymore.
00:19:15:19 – 00:19:18:29
Cameron
So we’re just going to try and estimate based on how many people are,
00:19:18:29 – 00:19:20:28
Cameron
clicking away from our ad, how many people are
00:19:20:28 – 00:19:22:05
Cameron
we’re able to they’re match
00:19:22:05 – 00:19:25:29
Cameron
again later with our our hashing from the conversions API.
00:19:25:29 – 00:19:30:04
Cameron
We’re going to estimate like what percentage of those people are taking what action. So how many
00:19:30:04 – 00:19:32:16
Cameron
people are adding to car? How many people are purchasing.
00:19:32:16 – 00:19:34:09
Cameron
And it is just way off.
00:19:34:09 – 00:19:36:01
Cameron
You might have some weeks where,
00:19:36:01 – 00:19:38:00
Cameron
especially if you’re on a smaller brand, you look
00:19:38:00 – 00:19:38:26
Cameron
at it and you’d be like, oh,
00:19:38:26 – 00:19:41:11
Cameron
this looks like it is very accurate
00:19:41:11 – 00:19:44:15
Cameron
and you’ll have other weeks where it’s telling you
00:19:44:15 – 00:19:49:07
Cameron
you’ve had all these sales, and you can look at your Shopify dashboard and you’re and you’re not getting anything.
00:19:49:07 – 00:19:49:13
Cameron
So
00:19:49:13 – 00:19:51:11
Cameron
it seems like it’s a complete
00:19:51:11 – 00:20:03:28
Cameron
guessing game and it just doesn’t have any credibility even when you’re at scale. And my experience and we can show you later on in this, when we look at the actual data suite, data versus what you’re seeing in platform from meta,
00:20:03:28 – 00:20:08:06
Cameron
there’s a significant difference. And data suite is always going to have lower KPIs
00:20:08:06 – 00:20:16:04
Cameron
not because it’s there’s like, as a different brand or anything, just because all that model data is going to make your campaigns look worse than they are.
00:20:16:07 – 00:20:24:22
Cameron
And there’s stuff you could be turning off because you don’t think it’s doing well, but it’s just models data. It’s not real numbers that are actually the performance of that campaign.
00:20:24:24 – 00:20:29:21
Ralph
So I think a lot of folks who installed Capi and now we’re, you know, those are the folks that,
00:20:29:21 – 00:20:37:00
Ralph
you know, data suite is a potential solution here, obviously, which we’re going to get to in just a second here. But I think with capi,
00:20:37:00 – 00:20:44:14
Ralph
you might have a false sense of security, because what you think you’re seeing isn’t actually what you’re seeing it.
00:20:44:14 – 00:20:52:02
Ralph
And then when you compare it to the source of truth, which we did three data suite, we’re always like, why are these numbers so far off?
00:20:52:02 – 00:21:06:22
Ralph
Exactly what you’re saying. Even with Capi installed, you still weren’t getting accurate data because there’s this large portion. I guess it really depends on how many iOS clickers there are and how many ad blockers and how many you know, cookie deprecate ers that are clicking on.
00:21:06:27 – 00:21:08:05
Ralph
The point is, is
00:21:08:05 – 00:21:24:07
Ralph
there is a certain portion that Meta and Facebook are just never going to capture. No matter what. And they’re taking a guess at it. And that guess might be wrong, might be right, or it might be somewhere in between, but you still don’t know with 100% certainty.
00:21:24:09 – 00:21:29:18
Cameron
Yeah. And that’s the big element really, as someone who is doing the media buying. Right. It’s like with
00:21:29:18 – 00:21:38:29
Cameron
Capi, your your data was was getting better for the platforms to optimize, but you just could not trust anything you were looking at in the platform because,
00:21:38:29 – 00:21:39:29
Cameron
okay, it’s good that the
00:21:39:29 – 00:21:44:07
Cameron
actual platform is learning and we’re going to get better conversion from that.
00:21:44:10 – 00:22:03:15
Cameron
But if I made human decisions based on something that’s incorrect, I then stopped that whole process because I might turn off the thing that was bringing all the the conversions and generating that data in the first place, and then you don’t see the effect until a bit later when, you know, if you are looking at your API, you’d see like a drop and you’d have to go turn back on the fact that you turned off.
00:22:03:15 – 00:22:04:05
Cameron
So
00:22:04:05 – 00:22:10:00
Cameron
enhances the optimization space, but it doesn’t do anything for the reporting phase. Right? And,
00:22:10:00 – 00:22:10:17
Cameron
meta.
00:22:10:29 – 00:22:19:08
Ralph
That’s a that’s a really good way of saying it. It does enhance optimization to a certain degree. However, for reporting it’s still highly inaccurate
00:22:19:08 – 00:22:40:11
Ralph
because there is a fair amount of guessing that goes along. All right. So maybe let’s compare and contrast tier 11 data suite here. Not to turn this into a tier 11 data suite pitch, but this is a pretty remarkable system that we figured out over the course of the last couple of years to solve this very problem, because visibility into the data is everything.
00:22:40:11 – 00:22:43:12
Ralph
Like I said before, if you are, if
00:22:43:12 – 00:23:02:19
Ralph
your goal is to go from 6 million to 12 million in revenue, hey, it’s a $6 million gap. How are you going to get there? How is it all new customer acquisition? Is it higher a of a higher LTV is how are you going to do it? Chances are probably a new customer acquisition is a very important part of that.
00:23:02:19 – 00:23:20:19
Ralph
And that’s the reason why ancak or new customer acquisition cost is such a vital stat, such a vital goal. Like you as a media buyer, you’re looking at that all the time and measuring against it, benchmarking it. But that data, that number has to be as accurate as possible.
00:23:20:19 – 00:23:27:23
Ralph
And if you’re relying on an app, it might be right, might not be right, might be somewhere in between.
00:23:27:27 – 00:23:38:29
Ralph
But you don’t have a high degree of confidence in that number. How does tier 11 data suite potentially solve that problem, or at least come close to solving it?
00:23:39:01 – 00:23:43:13
Cameron
Okay, cool. So this is obviously our current,
00:23:43:13 – 00:24:03:21
Cameron
explanation of data suite. What I wanted to say is don’t get too hung up. Like I said before on the different aspects arose because when I tried to show you how copy compares, it might get confusing, but we’re just going to look at the data path at the moment. So basically in this, the purple is the path of the data, and the pink is just symbolizing the actual user’s journey.
00:24:03:21 – 00:24:05:07
Cameron
Okay. So it’s not data. That’s something that
00:24:05:07 – 00:24:26:17
Cameron
caught me before okay. So same situation. People are on the ad platforms. Whatever app platform because we’re talking about conversion API. We will look at meta today. So let’s say someone again clicks on that ad from meta. There’s going to be an intermediate step okay. So they leave the ad platform.
00:24:26:17 – 00:24:27:01
Cameron
They get
00:24:27:01 – 00:24:38:09
Cameron
first party cookie added by the ad platform. They get they click ID added as before. But what happens is they pass through this thing called the edge, which is hosted on,
00:24:38:09 – 00:24:48:00
Cameron
edge server as a, content display network. Okay. Now what happens here and tier 11 data suite. This doesn’t happen in the other example.
00:24:48:00 – 00:25:13:06
Cameron
This only happens in tier 11. Data suite is they that signal that is on the the person leaving is captured okay. So it’s captured here and it’s sent to our data warehouse. So I’m going to come back to that in a minute. What then happens is that person continues on to your website that is hosted on the origin server, which is the server hosting their website.
00:25:13:06 – 00:25:18:00
Cameron
Okay. But if we follow the pathway of the data, what is happening?
00:25:18:00 – 00:25:19:17
Cameron
what is happening is
00:25:19:17 – 00:25:24:19
Cameron
that data is sent to our data warehouse, like I said. And then a couple of things happen.
00:25:24:19 – 00:25:35:04
Cameron
One, it can speak to the actual e-commerce platform. So we’re getting data from their first party as well. And then the second thing is it’s going to send that back once it’s,
00:25:35:04 – 00:25:36:28
Cameron
fingerprinted, it match those people up.
00:25:37:01 – 00:25:57:22
Cameron
It’s going to send that back directly to the ad platforms, and you have far richer data. So what would happen in a nice situation after this edge step is you would then lose the data. So we’re not losing any data because we’re doing this before the browser ad blockers take the signals out of the
00:25:57:22 – 00:26:01:28
Cameron
the data essentially like happens with the conversion API.
00:26:01:28 – 00:26:09:02
Cameron
So we’re getting all the data at the step and it goes into the data warehouse, all gets matched together and then sent back to the platforms directly.
00:26:09:04 – 00:26:37:20
Ralph
Makes sense. The difference is if we take out the edge and you have that sort of that pink arrow that goes to the origin server, and then right after that, that’s it’s then blocked in essence on the browser itself. Yeah. That’s where the problem happens. And copy doesn’t solve that problem. And that’s the reason why you can’t really trust 100% that data.
00:26:37:27 – 00:27:05:25
Ralph
And that’s why this is a solution that makes a whole lot more sense. And there’s a lot of different ways to do this. We’ve got a video. We’ll, we’ll obviously we’ll we’ll leave for you guys as well. It’s now on YouTube that explains this going all the way through. But I think understanding it fundamentally gives people, especially the level of expertise that are on these calls, gives them an understanding of, okay, this is actually something that’s fundamentally different than the solution I have in place right now because of this edge server.
00:27:05:27 – 00:27:29:07
Ralph
And the edge server basically captures that user before they actually enter your store. They, as we said a few times here on on this show, is that we capture the data of your user when they enter the parking lot, as opposed to when they walk through your front door. And that way we can then pump it back to the data warehouse, which is first party data, and then we can do whatever we need to do with it.
00:27:29:07 – 00:27:37:19
Ralph
They’re provided that we’re compliant, and this is a 100% compliant solution. With all the privacy restrictions in the US as well as internationally.
00:27:37:21 – 00:27:54:28
Cameron
Yeah, exactly. And this is where I’ve tried to show you what cap is doing differently as I, as you just said, Ralph. So Cappy with the green it’s coming to the browser loses the cookies and that that signal’s gone. And then your server sending it back to that platforms. But it has no idea who those people are at this point.
00:27:54:29 – 00:28:12:22
Cameron
It’s just people have bought from your website, and meta has to do the job of matching those people up versus you in this situation, having the data, we know who they are because we have the tags coming from the platforms. We just have to wait for those people to buy, and then we can send that back to the platform saying, hey, we’ve already matched the people up.
00:28:12:24 – 00:28:17:20
Cameron
These are the people that clicked on your ad because we know you have the tag. There you go.
00:28:17:22 – 00:28:19:27
Ralph
Yeah, that makes sense. And,
00:28:19:27 – 00:28:26:20
Ralph
I love the green arrows here, by the way. So Cameron did all this, and you did all this on your own? I didn’t know you had, like, these types of skills.
00:28:26:20 – 00:28:34:02
Ralph
Tremendous. No, I mean, that really is, in essence, the difference between the two. I guess maybe we can show. I mean, this obviously, this makes sense.
00:28:34:02 – 00:28:41:24
Ralph
We’re going to be taking some questions here in just a little bit. There’s obviously a lot of Google Ads questions which we may have to couch those for when John gets back.
00:28:42:00 – 00:28:43:10
Cameron
Slapping shoulders for those ones.
00:28:43:15 – 00:28:48:24
Ralph
Yes, they might just slip off. But anyway, I know John Moran’s dog is chomping at the bit and,
00:28:48:24 – 00:28:53:01
Ralph
you know, John Moran’s forehead. I think it’s a new one. John Moran’s liver. Kidney?
00:28:53:01 – 00:29:11:07
Ralph
Anyway, the point is, is that this is a fundamentally different approach. And the reason why we put this together is because we have we wrote the integration between the edge, which is by a company called blot out, you know, they they use Cloudflare.
00:29:11:07 – 00:29:34:28
Ralph
Look it up CD. It’s the largest CD again in the world. There’s 7000 edge servers that they utilize that put their particular script on there. And that platform plus our data warehouse integrated back into Wicked Reports, which is our interface, which is where you read the data, which we’re going to hopefully see right here, sort of compare and contrast.
00:29:35:00 – 00:29:50:23
Ralph
That’s where the rubber meets the road, because the integration between those three things makes everything different. But the key is capturing the data on the edge before it gets blocked by the browser. And that’s the key difference between capi. Would you agree.
00:29:50:25 – 00:29:52:24
Cameron
Yeah. Exactly.
00:29:52:26 – 00:29:54:20
Ralph
All right. So maybe we can go into
00:29:54:20 – 00:30:14:23
Ralph
like a compare and contrast. Do you have an example of maybe showing, you know, the interface itself in a particular account and maybe how you would sort of look at the data inside, you know, how you’re viewing things inside meta versus looking inside the interface inside wicked reports. Is that safe to assume?
00:30:14:26 – 00:30:15:10
Ralph
Yeah. I’m.
00:30:15:13 – 00:30:16:12
Cameron
Yeah. Let me show you.
00:30:16:12 – 00:30:20:23
Ralph
Look at the ad platforms to a certain degree. And if you need to share your screen, that’s cool too.
00:30:20:23 – 00:30:27:28
Ralph
Because it’s not like you don’t look inside the ad platform. I just want to make that clear. I still look.
00:30:28:00 – 00:30:35:19
Cameron
Yeah. I’m. No, I’m in. I’m in that platform all day, every day. Basically, I live in that thing. So when they when they introduced new things that caused bugs,
00:30:35:19 – 00:30:40:15
Cameron
my, my life is stressed straight away and delay.
00:30:40:17 – 00:30:45:07
Ralph
Oh, my God, that never happens. Come on. That never change anything without telling us.
00:30:45:09 – 00:30:45:21
Cameron
First
00:30:45:21 – 00:30:47:05
Cameron
matter would never do that.
00:30:47:07 – 00:30:50:09
Ralph
No, not in a million years. So,
00:30:50:09 – 00:30:57:29
Ralph
it’s Cameron gets his screen up here, so we’re not discounting looking at the platform. Right? I know we’ve talked about this before.
00:30:57:29 – 00:31:09:04
Ralph
Numerous times. Yeah. In-App Roas is not to be trusted. However, we still use it. We’ve got a lot of we’ve got a lot of content out there in the internet, on the interwebs,
00:31:09:04 – 00:31:14:28
Ralph
camera that says Roas sucks, and it does suck as a source of truth, but we still look at it.
00:31:15:00 – 00:31:33:02
Ralph
You still look at it as a one of the metrics that you look at then that’s obviously in platform, but the real source of truth. Now, when you have data suite, you used to actually go into, probably Shopify or, you know, the real source of truth in the CRM. Now you can see the same thing inside the interface, inside wicked reports, inside data suite.
00:31:33:05 – 00:31:33:19
Ralph
So
00:31:33:19 – 00:31:47:04
Ralph
all right, so here we are. We’re looking at the inside of a meta ad account. Take us through sort of how you would compare and contrast and, and utilize this data and then cross-reference it with what you see inside data suite.
00:31:47:04 – 00:31:56:04
Cameron
Yeah, sure. So I’ll just jump through and show you a couple of things, and then I’ll give you an idea of how, as a media buyer, this is tangibly helped me,
00:31:56:04 – 00:31:58:10
Cameron
have massive like when specifically. So
00:31:58:10 – 00:31:59:10
Cameron
if we look at
00:31:59:10 – 00:32:00:16
Cameron
meta right now,
00:32:00:16 – 00:32:14:11
Cameron
I just want to speak firstly to the the CPA that we have and how I was speaking about earlier, where you’re always going to see it lower end data suite because you have more data, you’re getting those purchases that meta doesn’t know they’re actually in existence.
00:32:14:11 – 00:32:18:09
Cameron
Okay. So that’s what you see here. You can see these campaigns there. And we’re looking at.
00:32:18:09 – 00:32:20:02
Ralph
January of 2025.
00:32:20:02 – 00:32:21:25
Cameron
This January of 2025.
00:32:22:00 – 00:32:25:25
Ralph
We’re recording this on Valentine’s Day by the way. By the way Happy Valentine’s Day.
00:32:25:27 – 00:32:48:21
Cameron
Oh so yeah you can see this. We’ll just look these first two to show it. So you’ve got 801 here and wasn’t 179. Use them as the identifiers for these campaigns names. Perfect. So we have $95 cost per purchase showing in the ad platform $64 cost per purchase shown here okay. So we take away and and all these things meta.
00:32:48:21 – 00:32:54:12
Cameron
Can’t show you that unless you have data suite which is another topic. But anyway meta can show you that
00:32:54:12 – 00:33:12:03
Cameron
as standard. So we have the blended CPA of new customers and return customers. If I go into 211 data suite, have like reports really here you can see if I look at all kcat, which is the same metric being compared.
00:33:12:05 – 00:33:40:20
Cameron
We have $77 and 56. So you’ve gone 95, 64, 77, 56. So this scenario, there’s nothing I can show you where it’s like, oh, I would have turned off these campaigns or anything. And because obviously I’m not using it like this, I have the tools, but there could definitely be situations where, you know, you’re $5 over the target, you’re $10 over the target, and for your business, that is too much of the target and you have to cut something.
00:33:40:23 – 00:33:52:29
Cameron
But the reality is it’s not over target. If you are looking in a place that had all the data, okay. And I think a lot of people can be get held back by things like this. However, as I mentioned,
00:33:52:29 – 00:33:55:04
Cameron
we have the luxury of having
00:33:55:04 – 00:33:57:13
Cameron
other metrics that don’t exist and
00:33:57:13 – 00:33:58:19
Cameron
as manager. So
00:33:58:19 – 00:33:59:25
Cameron
let me not be there.
00:33:59:27 – 00:34:10:29
Ralph
Let me, before you go into the other metrics. So what you just showed is a perfect example. Same time frame, same lookback period. We’re looking at January of 2024 here.
00:34:10:29 – 00:34:13:13
Ralph
And we are to an outsized date
00:34:13:13 – 00:34:15:11
Ralph
Right. Or two weeks after that.
00:34:15:11 – 00:34:24:24
Ralph
The point of this is that the the Allcock, the Acac, which is the entire cost of acquiring a customer is about 20%.
00:34:25:01 – 00:34:37:23
Ralph
This is 20 or 25% difference between what you’re looking at inside meta and what you’re actually seeing inside the interface. We get reports and data suite, which is not insignificant.
00:34:37:26 – 00:34:44:00
Cameron
Yeah. So that’s not like that. Like you said, it’s two weeks later is had time to bring all that data back.
00:34:44:00 – 00:34:48:22
Cameron
It should be as rich as it’s ever going to get. And yeah, it’s 20% difference.
00:34:48:24 – 00:35:11:08
Ralph
Yeah. Right. So like the modeling is already taking place. The you know they filled the gaps as much as possible. We’re not look at it. Yeah. It would be an unfair comparison if we actually looked back from, you know, the 15th of January to today because the data would still be it would be more of a difference. You’re actually giving it a two week grace period to give me more of a chance to backfill.
00:35:11:08 – 00:35:15:29
Ralph
But now it’s two weeks later. Like these are decisions you have to be making. You’re spending
00:35:15:29 – 00:35:18:27
Ralph
hundreds and thousands of dollars like
00:35:18:27 – 00:35:25:12
Ralph
there is a lot of money on the line here, and you need to be able to make accurate decisions based upon true data, as
00:35:25:12 – 00:35:27:10
Ralph
opposed to modeled data,
00:35:27:10 – 00:35:29:11
Ralph
or data that you’re not confident in.
00:35:29:14 – 00:35:31:20
Cameron
Yeah.
00:35:31:22 – 00:35:52:10
Cameron
Exactly. So to add to that, then what we are making those decisions on really is not this all catch number because we’re focused on new customer acquisition, as you and John have, you know, repeatedly told everyone about. So people have been watching for a long time, should have that ingrained in them. No, but we are practicing what we preach.
00:35:52:10 – 00:35:53:11
Cameron
Like this is what we do on
00:35:53:11 – 00:35:56:13
Cameron
a daily basis in the actual accounts. Okay, so
00:35:56:13 – 00:36:03:05
Cameron
I am looking at this Northstar metric here of new customer cost or new customer acquisition cost of our new customer,
00:36:03:05 – 00:36:12:15
Cameron
it just doesn’t exist. And as manager. So if I wanted to get this as manager, I’d have to go into Shopify. I’d have to download a report of new customers.
00:36:12:17 – 00:36:30:11
Cameron
This is what you just have to do, and I’d work out okay. What what we spent on a certain campaign, how many people have bought that particular product and make a loose calculation of, okay, they’re probably buying the product we’re showing from ads. This is maybe what my own kayak is, but it’s not very accurate. This tells me every single campaign ad set, an ad.
00:36:30:13 – 00:36:32:28
Cameron
What is the actual new customer,
00:36:32:28 – 00:36:44:04
Cameron
acquisition cost for that asset. So it’s fantastic. It’s really, really helpful when you’re trying to determine how to optimize the campaign and judge the performance to of your actual,
00:36:44:04 – 00:36:46:04
Cameron
fluctuations and seasonality.
00:36:46:04 – 00:36:48:05
Cameron
The stuff goes out of stock. All the things like that.
00:36:48:05 – 00:36:49:12
Ralph
That’s a game changer right there,
00:36:49:12 – 00:37:10:18
Ralph
because that’s accurate. Like when we said before, okay, you’ve got the big goal, you’ve got your empties, right. You’ve got your like you your business metrics. Obviously you need to understand to determine what your own kayak is. There’s a whole that whole thing that we talked about. But when you get down to all right, I need to acquire more customers at a cost that makes sense for this particular, particular client.
00:37:10:18 – 00:37:19:01
Ralph
And I believe the ceiling on the Ncac here is what is it, $100 in that range as far as an KOCO’s? Yeah,
00:37:19:01 – 00:37:35:23
Ralph
it’s right around there. So you’re below it. But you need to know accurately what am I acquiring a new customer for? And that’s the difference between data suite and everything else that’s out there, because it is able to determine who is new and who is returning with.
00:37:35:26 – 00:37:59:02
Ralph
We measured this on another tier 11 live. It’s almost 99% accurate, which is crazy because of what you described in the first 20 minutes of the show. We’re capturing the data on the edge before the data gets blocked, and then capturing is first party data, pumping it back into the ad platform, which is in this case, we’re still pumping it back in.
00:37:59:02 – 00:38:11:23
Ralph
It’s not going to be 100% accurate. However, when you view it inside the interface, it’s nearly 100% accurate. We’re never going to say 100%. Let’s say it’s 99% or 95%. John continues to say it’s 100%. But anyway.
00:38:11:24 – 00:38:13:29
Cameron
Yeah, it’s cover yourself.
00:38:14:02 – 00:38:24:19
Ralph
Cover yourself. Nothing’s ever 100%. That’s why, you know, nine Ivory soap is 99.9. What is 44 and 100 is pure anyway. Well, we’ll go at the Ivory Soap
00:38:24:19 – 00:38:32:27
Ralph
Road here. 99%. So but that’s a super important thing. So you’re making these decisions on real data is my point here.
00:38:32:29 – 00:38:52:19
Cameron
Yeah exactly. And this is one thing I want to show you specifically Ralph. So we have tons of metrics in this dashboard that don’t exist as manager. Right. But one of the things you mentioned there was the new customers, new visitors. Okay. And here’s an example of me actually using this where in prior,
00:38:52:19 – 00:38:57:12
Cameron
working you just you wouldn’t have this information and you might make decisions that are incorrect.
00:38:57:12 – 00:39:11:11
Cameron
Or if they’re not incorrect, they just hold you back from scaling. Okay. So this ties back into what John and I were discussing last week with time lag. And you can work with time lag when you have this because you have additional information. So this is basically a week.
00:39:11:11 – 00:39:13:02
Cameron
And it’s just like what was the week?
00:39:13:02 – 00:39:13:16
Cameron
It’s
00:39:13:16 – 00:39:14:06
Cameron
this was December.
00:39:14:06 – 00:39:21:22
Cameron
So it was August. Yeah, I think this is August I’m going to use by the American date. So I just tried to the 18th of August.
00:39:22:00 – 00:39:23:04
Ralph
Yeah. August. Yep.
00:39:23:04 – 00:39:24:21
Cameron
Yeah. Okay. Anyway,
00:39:24:21 – 00:39:39:21
Cameron
you can see in this week we’re looking high level now at other platforms because we, you know, we’re doing stuff on meta in this account mainly. But we want to see how it affects your funnel. And you’re going to see this played out okay. So there was a 17% increase in spend because we wanted to scale.
00:39:39:21 – 00:39:56:11
Cameron
Right. So when we do that the ancak here, you can see it’s come up 30% over 100 to $104. We’re above our target okay. So previously what people would do they look at that and go oh no, we’re above the target. That’s been a full week.
00:39:56:11 – 00:40:09:17
Cameron
Let’s scale back that 20% we just did on meta. However, because I have this information, I can look at this metric here that is 99% accurate or 100% accurate.
00:40:09:17 – 00:40:10:05
Cameron
If you’re John
00:40:10:05 – 00:40:28:19
Cameron
and I can say, well, we’ve got 26% new visits to the website for that 70% increase in cost. So even though the Ncac has come up with this time lag thing we were talking about last week, I know the time lag on this business is two weeks. I just want to wait another week to see what happens.
00:40:28:19 – 00:40:47:00
Cameron
Once people move down the funnel and convert on Google with that extra time that they need, because Google’s telling me that’s how long it’s going to take. Okay. So I know from this metric that, well, I’m getting the visits. Meta has done its job. It’s bringing me the people. Right now. I just want to wait a bit longer and see how the funnel performs.
00:40:47:02 – 00:40:53:25
Cameron
Because I know how the funnel works. Okay. So as I look around, so my camera is in the way and I move this a week forward.
00:40:53:27 – 00:41:15:14
Ralph
So just to be for those of you who might be listening here, what we’re doing is we’re comparing back in August when you scaled up a meta campaign by about 16 or 17%. Yeah. In that week you saw Ncac starting to rise, but you knew because it takes about two weeks. And this was last week’s show, which was awesome.
00:41:15:14 – 00:41:38:02
Ralph
By the way, last week’s show showed us that the importance of time lag and time lag is absolutely essential. But, you know, in this particular case with this customer, it takes about 14 days or so for a client to or a new customer for them from first impression or first click to purchase. Is that what you’re doing? Are you using first impression.
00:41:38:02 – 00:41:40:00
Ralph
You’re using first click? How do you measure the brand?
00:41:40:03 – 00:41:42:13
Cameron
This is a first impression. First impression. Google okay.
00:41:42:15 – 00:41:44:01
Ralph
Makes sense. Perfect.
00:41:44:01 – 00:41:51:26
Cameron
Yeah. So that is the next week and Ncac is now down to 10%.
00:41:51:26 – 00:42:06:14
Cameron
New visits are stable because we have obviously not increased new visits. We’re not increased again. And everything else that they can train because it’s just a funnel. So that’s like a perfect example of how I use this. And in reality and yeah, massive, massive help.
00:42:06:16 – 00:42:33:25
Ralph
That is that’s fantastic. So it’s a combination of solid data. Also understanding the client journey about, well, the journey for the course, the customer’s journey in this particular case and every single, you know time lag is going to be different for every single customer you just happened to know. Working with them and looking at the data. And for people who don’t know that I know John uses Google in order to do it.
00:42:33:25 – 00:42:50:02
Ralph
How did you do it? Pre guys? I think that was sort of a revelation because sometimes it appears, sometimes it doesn’t, you know, to refresh the screen inside the Google Ads platform, like how did you figure out it was 14 days without that. Or what’s the best way to figure out time lag?
00:42:50:04 – 00:42:56:04
Cameron
Well, we had the luxury of John a long time ago. Told us so before we didn’t, we didn’t do it. We just kind of knew,
00:42:56:04 – 00:43:08:08
Cameron
like some clients would have information. They know how long the funnel was and we could kind of work with that. But a lot of people just you just didn’t know it was just a case of, okay, we’ve gone down and you developed practices like crutches.
00:43:08:08 – 00:43:11:23
Cameron
Really. So I used to just hold a lot of people. I’m very against that.
00:43:11:23 – 00:43:26:27
Cameron
On the meta side, they’ll scale up everything. They scale back in a few days, that kind of thing. I got into the habit of just making performance decisions on a weekly basis. So I always do things on a Monday. I would wait a week, no matter what, and then I might hold a week and then pull back.
00:43:26:27 – 00:43:34:29
Cameron
So it just really the lot rather than actual science. But now we have the science. We can look at time lag and Google, and we know exactly how long the conversion window is
00:43:34:29 – 00:43:36:04
Cameron
to actually.
00:43:36:07 – 00:43:37:09
Ralph
That’s great. Well,
00:43:37:09 – 00:43:40:03
Ralph
this has been amazing. Yeah.
00:43:40:03 – 00:43:45:19
Ralph
Love the theory. Like, this is how it works. This is how you actually use it in practice. Compare and contrast.
00:43:45:19 – 00:44:04:21
Ralph
And obviously this is a tool that’s now being deployed, that’s making what you do every single day a lot more effective. And also, and I know for a fact this client is ecstatic with the results that without this type of data, I don’t know if we would have been able to get it because we would have been guessing most of the time.
00:44:04:24 – 00:44:05:06
Ralph
So yeah.
00:44:05:06 – 00:44:10:02
Cameron
So one. Yeah, for sure. And one more thing. Just because I have other accounts,
00:44:10:02 – 00:44:10:20
Cameron
the have,
00:44:10:20 – 00:44:27:16
Cameron
dashboards like this and they show you visits. What you’re saying about the accuracy is a big factor here as well, because there’s certain tools that I use where they have this. But you don’t know what the new visits are actually accurate because they don’t have that piece of the edge tag capturing those people essentially.
00:44:27:18 – 00:44:34:07
Ralph
Yeah. And the edge tag is the key. So you need the edge tag in order to install it. You need the interface to be able to read it.
00:44:34:07 – 00:44:40:01
Ralph
The only place you can get it is 211 data suite. So anyway, enough with the sales pitch, but that is the sales pitch because that’s the facts.
00:44:40:08 – 00:44:50:05
Ralph
We hope you’ve enjoyed this episode. Don’t forget to leave a comment and review. Be sure to subscribe and check our channel at Perpetual Traffic. Com. And until next show. See ya!
