Episode 790: Stop Saying This on Sales Calls (It Hurts Your Deals)

April 7, 2026

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Why do some prospects respect you while others walk all over you? When you feel like you’re chasing the sale instead of controlling it, you’re already losing. Neediness kills deals, and most marketers don’t even realize how often they signal it.

In this episode, we revisit a conversation I had with Oren Klaff on why traditional sales tactics, including being polite, agreeable, and even “professional,” actually sabotage your results. We get into frame control, status dynamics, and the subtle behaviors that instantly shift power in high-stakes deals.

If you’re running an agency, selling high-ticket services, or managing enterprise clients, this conversation will challenge how you show up on every call. You cannot sell from a low-status position. Listen to the discussion closely, and you’ll start spotting where you’ve been giving away leverage without even knowing it.

In this episode you’ll learn:

Why neediness destroys sales conversions and deal flow
Frame control strategy for high-ticket sales calls
How to eliminate weak language in sales conversations
Closing high-value clients without discounting services
Handling objections and last-minute negotiation tactics
Persuasion techniques that increase authority and trust

Listen to the Full Episode with Oren Klaff:

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READ THE TRANSCRIPT:

Stop Saying This on Sales Calls (It Hurts Your Deals)

00;00;00;02 – 00;00;08;22
Oren Klaff
You cannot sell to someone from the low status position does not work. Stop saying please and thank you so much.

00;00;08;25 – 00;00;16;13
Ralph Burns
Maybe just give the folks sort of an overview of what I feel is an incredibly solid and effective persuasion strategy.

00;00;16;14 – 00;00;21;07
Oren Klaff
Where all the tactics stem from is you have to have one.

00;00;21;10 – 00;00;23;04
Intro
Wow, you guys are the real deal.

00;00;23;05 – 00;00;25;23
Ralph Burns
I’m on my seat right now.

00;00;25;25 – 00;00;30;06
Intro
Well, we’re appreciate it in tier 11. We care about your business. That’s a big deal for us.

00;00;30;06 – 00;00;31;12
Ralph Burns
I am speechless. Yeah.

00;00;31;12 – 00;00;49;06
Intro
You guys did your homework. So smart. And the fact that your team intuitively figured that out without me having to kind of go into that is just music to my ears. I mean, they really did the work here. Thank you. Blown away. This is all so spot on. This audit was really great. I’m ready to go. I do feel like I’m in good hands.

00;00;49;09 – 00;01;19;25
Ralph Burns
All right, I’m going to make you a bet. Give us two weeks with all your ad accounts, your creative, your funnel, and your data, and we’ll find at least one thing that’s costing you real money that nobody has ever told you about. Now we do this audit for $10,000, but right now we’re opening up for free to a select group of brands because we’re so confident that we’re going to find at least one thing that is costing tens of thousands of dollars that nobody has ever discovered before.

00;01;19;26 – 00;01;34;19
Ralph Burns
So if we’re wrong, you lose nothing. If we’re right, you’ll wonder why nobody showed you this sooner. Head on over to tier 11 dot.com forward slash order today and applied for our free $10,000 audit.

00;01;34;22 – 00;01;53;24
Ralph Burns
Hello and welcome to the Perpetual Traffic Podcast. This is your host, Ralph Burns, founder and CEO of tier 11. And I am super excited for today’s show because this is one of the most popular shows that we’ve done in the last six months to a year here at Perpetual Traffic. So without further ado, let’s get into today’s episode.

00;01;53;27 – 00;02;00;04
Ralph Burns
We’re going to continue to go back to these shows, which have gotten lots of views and lots of downloads. So take it away, boys.

00;02;00;04 – 00;02;18;16
Oren Klaff
We in a deal. And I needed the closing fee on it. The guys that we were selling the deal to were being very difficult, right? And they kept asking questions and wanting more information and not closing. And it was a couple million dollars wire. So back then it was before Gmail. You just had Microsoft play with ding. When your email read the thing right.

00;02;18;16 – 00;02;39;09
Oren Klaff
And we’re tracking this deal, we’re trying to close it. I really need the commission. Jonathan sent an email to everybody. 15 people copied on it. The subject line all caps, three words, lose my number in the middle of a deal and where I came from, like nobody talks to anybody like that. I came from my dad was a college professor and both my parents are academics.

00;02;39;15 – 00;02;58;22
Oren Klaff
I went to, you know, very, conservative institutions. And I worked in very conservative banks. So in all caps email to 15 people in the middle of a deal says lose my number is like, this is done right. There’s no reality in which this is moving another millimeter down the road. And then ping, ping, ping ping ping.

00;02;58;22 – 00;03;23;02
Oren Klaff
And I’m expecting all the RFU deal done. And all I start saying is we’re sorry. Sorry, Jonathan, I didn’t mean to be. And the deal closed ten minutes later and I said what alternate universe am I in? And then I started noticing that, you know, he had the ability to really is never be needy. And what I learned there is neediness kills, deals.

00;03;23;04 – 00;03;51;19
Oren Klaff
So how can you both be selling somebody and needing something and wanting something and needing the commission, or needing the traffic or needing the relationship, and at the same time wanting it, loving it, being enamored with it, desiring it, and fundamentally in your DNA, maybe economically, actually needing it, but not needing it at all. And living in that space became the meaning of my life.

00;03;51;21 – 00;04;01;04
Oren Klaff
Learning how to live in that gray area, with wanting something with my heart and desire and mine more than anything else, but not wanting it at all.

00;04;01;10 – 00;04;24;08
Ralph Burns
I think that’s the hardest part of of sales, in my opinion, because you always want the sale. But if you come across and I remember just coming across that concept and pitch anything and then obviously and it shows up in flip the script as well is like that idea. And then trying to teach that to like my sales teams and it’s the hardest thing.

00;04;24;08 – 00;04;38;26
Ralph Burns
And you gave an example and flip the script where you got to North Dakota and you try and teach people how to do this. For I forget the name of it’s like a motor, like a cool man, a motorcycle star, real company, Jeep smart. And I was like, how the hell? And you didn’t really say, like, how you did it.

00;04;38;27 – 00;04;56;15
Ralph Burns
They just started selling more. I’m like, how did he figure out how to do that? And that’s it. Everybody’s been in this situation where it’s like, you know, so what do you think? You know, like trial closes, always be closing. Like all that sort of bull crap that we learned in sales school. It’s like it’s the opposite is true.

00;04;56;17 – 00;05;11;19
Ralph Burns
And I’m teaching my sales teams now in my own business how to do it. And they’re like, I’m amazed that this actually works. But then they fall back into these same old traps, like, how do you do that? Because that’s like a theme throughout both books, which I think is super important to comprehend.

00;05;11;19 – 00;05;31;15
Oren Klaff
I think there’s a one on one, you know, just like college is a 101, a 102, a 130, 201 and then graduate level work. So maybe I can give you some insight onto, you know, the various levels. You know, I’ve taught 80,000 people from stage these couple of techniques. So I know because they’ll come back the next day or that afternoon and they go, I just close the $300,000 account.

00;05;31;15 – 00;05;56;07
Oren Klaff
I did that yesterday at work, I did it, I got my self-respect back. That’s greatness. Whether make the money closed deals or not. But if somebody doesn’t have to live in fear of clients and accounts and sales managers and can live knowing that they ended the day with grace, poise, self-respect, left it all in the field and let it all work itself out.

00;05;56;12 – 00;06;02;14
Oren Klaff
That, to me is an amazing gift. And I think it starts here. Stop fucking saying please and thank you so much.

00;06;02;20 – 00;06;03;11
Ralph Burns

00;06;03;13 – 00;06;20;21
Oren Klaff
And I’ll tell you why there’s nothing wrong. Well please and thank you. And I’m sorry I myself say I’m sorry twice a year, twice a year Christmas and your partners. But then maybe not that often but it sounds good on a podcast. I don’t want to say. I don’t want to say zero sound. Are you have to apologize for lying.

00;06;20;23 – 00;06;45;03
Oren Klaff
Did we get our one for the year? I will say, Lauren, I appreciate how you feel. I can understand that. It’s miserable. I mean, misery in Israel will tell sales prospects at this point. Lauren, let me tell you how it all ends. The sun burns out and human civilization goes away. All right, so before that happens, let’s try and figure out how we’re going to do this together.

00;06;45;06 – 00;07;07;28
Oren Klaff
The reason we got to stop saying please, sorry and thank you is there’s nothing wrong with those. You cannot modulate it. So unless you just take it away completely, you’re just going to use those fillers for emotional dopamine pings. You’ll get some. The reason you do it is you get something for it. You get attention, please. Thank you.

00;07;08;00 – 00;07;25;21
Oren Klaff
I’m sorry. Gives you points in in the game. But look, you know, you’re trying to win points. Your final commitment, right? You’re right. I just got another. You know I just got another couple points in the game. This call continues I mean I know it’s so true because there are times where I’ve been like just just apologize. Just gosh dang it.

00;07;25;21 – 00;07;52;24
Oren Klaff
Like apologize like I don’t understand. Like it will help you so much more from my ego’s perspective, for someone to admit that they were wrong and like, just apologize. But yeah, I’m 100% keeping score as young salesperson Ralph can’t modulate those words, and those words are supplication. And when you say please, thank you and I’m sorry to a sales process, like they know that they have the high status position in a relationship, the power of number two.

00;07;52;24 – 00;08;01;18
Oren Klaff
So if that’s 101, and I’ll give you a way to make that happen if you get on a call, give me a example of salespeople that you work with and who they get on a call with.

00;08;01;21 – 00;08;12;23
Ralph Burns
The habit I always first break is is. Thank you so much for meeting with us. It’s like all you know, it’s the first mistake I think, you know, thank you so much for taking the time.

00;08;12;25 – 00;08;18;18
Oren Klaff
Give me the set up. Who is the salesperson? Who is a client? What are the stakes? What’s the size of the deal?

00;08;18;18 – 00;08;37;20
Ralph Burns
Average sized deal for us is about a quarter of $1 million a year IRR. And it’s a sales prospect in the e-commerce niche. And you know, it’s a sought after, like beauty brand that probably a lot of agencies are coming after. And the first thing that the salesperson wants to say is, thank you so much for taking the time to meet us.

00;08;37;22 – 00;08;43;18
Oren Klaff
Got it? I’m going to fix that right now. It’s good because it’s good. High stakes sale. Who’s the buyer who’s typically on the line?

00;08;43;20 – 00;08;56;08
Ralph Burns
It’s usually the director of digital, the director of marketing, something like that. So it’s not usually the CEO at that level, but it sometimes it can be. They’ll bring them in every now and then, but usually it’s somebody who reports to somebody else for sure.

00;08;56;13 – 00;09;10;18
Oren Klaff
Self-Entitled high status feels that they have the control and the relationship feels like the power and the relationship belongs to them. Right. 19 out of times those guys come to the zoom or the phone call a few minutes late. Fair.

00;09;10;20 – 00;09;16;16
Ralph Burns
Oh, absolutely. Every single time. Yes. Just like I do. Except today.

00;09;16;18 – 00;09;27;18
Oren Klaff
Hundred percent of the time I will say, hey, Ralph, are you here for the 1235 meeting? Because the 1230 meeting is just starting to get going and might even wrap up.

00;09;27;18 – 00;09;29;28
Ralph Burns
Small acts of defiance.

00;09;30;00 – 00;09;34;01
Oren Klaff
Are you here for the 1235 meeting? That’s bold.

00;09;34;04 – 00;09;35;09
Ralph Burns
That’s good.

00;09;35;11 – 00;10;04;22
Oren Klaff
So this scares young people to say it where? So unfortunately, I go to meetings yesterday. Guys who manage billion dollar funds multiple times. Billionaires definitely guys worth 20, 30, 40, $150 million. I’ve had people sell multiple multiple companies. You know, where they walked away with $130 million. I deal with people who are self enamored, self empowered, feel like they have the alpha position in every deal, no matter what, and they always come to calls late.

00;10;04;22 – 00;10;28;21
Oren Klaff
And I always go, hey, Jim, you here for the 913 meeting? And, and guess what they always say always. I’m sorry. Hold on. Now. It just went backwards, I reversed gravity. Now you’re apologizing to me. And this is set up correctly. It was their wicked moment. Defying gravity. So that’s 101. 102. Stop saying sorry.

00;10;28;21 – 00;10;34;13
Ralph Burns
Please stop saying sorry. But it potentially prompt them to say sorry is sort of the 1 or 2.

00;10;34;16 – 00;10;51;29
Oren Klaff
Listen, this is why. Because in our culture, everybody understands the value of time. Billionaires understand the value of time. Even if you are the guy doing the valet, they book the valet, you know, for, you know, 3 p.m. they show up at 305, the valet guy goes, hey, I’ve been waiting for you. The first thing I might say are sorry.

00;10;51;29 – 00;11;15;06
Oren Klaff
I’m sorry. That’s our culture. Timeliness is one of the most respected early signals of having a quality value system that matches in with our Judeo-Christian political, social culture that we have here in America. People don’t understand the value of time, don’t go far in our system. It’s just how we work. I don’t know how they do. In Scandinavia, I don’t know how they do it in Nicaragua.

00;11;15;08 – 00;11;27;12
Oren Klaff
That’s how we do it here. And they said, an iron man that worked pretty good for dad. We’re pretty good for me. And that’s how the government does it. Introducing the Jericho. Yeah, but you didn’t like the second and third one, though, because it was just one out of them.

00;11;27;12 – 00;11;53;21
Ralph Burns
Yes. Hey, here’s what scares me about this industry brands are spending $50,000, $100,000, $300,000 a month, and nobody is ever actually looked at the full picture. Not the platform, the full picture, the creative, the traffic, the landing pages, the data, all of it. Together we do. It’s a $10,000 audit that takes us just about two weeks to do it here at cheer 11.

00;11;53;24 – 00;12;19;12
Ralph Burns
And right now we’re going to do it for free for one last brand that qualifies. If you’ve ever thought something’s off. But I just can’t figure out what, and this is for you, head on over to cure 11.com/audit and apply for your free $10,000 audit today. By the way, Orrin is the first guest we’ve ever had. And 700 some odd episodes who was a minute early and as was I, I was three minutes early.

00;12;19;12 – 00;12;24;14
Ralph Burns
But that unto itself you set the frame like is that the first sort of step.

00;12;24;14 – 00;12;27;04
Oren Klaff
For that is setting the for everyone says, you know, frame.

00;12;27;04 – 00;12;32;09
Ralph Burns
Selling. That’s what Oren Cliff teaches. He teaches frame selling. I’m like, well, okay, what is it?

00;12;32;10 – 00;12;54;11
Oren Klaff
Let me take it a little bit further for your guys. So what you’re trying to do is you are taking a very, very, very high status person and you are reducing their status to below yours. This is not game theory, although it is game theory. It is not Machiavellian. It is not intended to, hurt people or malign people.

00;12;54;14 – 00;13;15;05
Oren Klaff
But here is the reality. If somebody has higher status than you, they have some physical things that happen in your body. When you have high status. One you don’t listen well to the low status person that’s talking to you. Number two, you take risks with them that you would not take with somebody that is higher status in you.

00;13;15;05 – 00;13;31;27
Oren Klaff
Of course, you know risks. They’re not medieval risks, but you know they will. Oh hey sorry. You know. Yeah. Oh, really? No, the ahi pokey is fine. And the, No, for those listening, you can’t see that he’s now taking a phone call.

00;13;31;27 – 00;13;32;20
Ralph Burns
Ordering a.

00;13;32;20 – 00;13;34;08
Oren Klaff
Phone. Bad fish.

00;13;34;10 – 00;13;40;09
Ralph Burns
That’s right. Ordering sushi, in the middle of a professional traffic episode. Yeah. Anyway. But got.

00;13;40;09 – 00;13;53;01
Oren Klaff
It. When you’re trying to get your kid into the Harvard prep school, and you’re sitting there with the president and the dean of admissions, right? Your phone is on your. You’re the lower status party and your phone is on off.

00;13;53;02 – 00;13;54;02
Ralph Burns
Yeah, yeah.

00;13;54;05 – 00;14;11;05
Oren Klaff
Because I’ve been in the room potentially. It’s in a bag in the Kotex. It’s not an off. Your wife is going to turn it into an underwater phone in the women’s bathroom. All right. You are not taking any risk to in somebody views themselves as having more power than you, higher status than you. They don’t listen to you well.

00;14;11;09 – 00;14;36;06
Oren Klaff
They will take risks around you and they will discount the things you say, even if you’re an expert in it, to where their own opinion on something they know nothing about will have more weight than yours, you have got to lower somebody’s status down to yours or below yours just so they can listen to you. You cannot sell to someone from the low status position does not work.

00;14;36;10 – 00;14;56;29
Oren Klaff
And so you’ve got to bring their status into alignment with yours. Now there are tactics for doing that and we can talk about that for an hour, two hours, three hours, nine hours, whatever. But where all the tactics stem from is you have to have one, a value system that you are anchored to. And I think I did write about that in the script.

00;14;57;05 – 00;15;18;09
Oren Klaff
If there is a perception that you don’t stand for anything other than money, you will occupy the low status position and sell from discounts and so I would love for you guys to tend to my calls. You know, I’ll be on a $3 million investment, you know, had three guys on the thing. They have their CFO on the call, you know, and he’ll be going like this and I’ll go, hey, Matt.

00;15;18;09 – 00;15;33;27
Oren Klaff
Lauren, what are you you’re looking at the phone. Mike. Hey, man, what are you doing? Like, we’re together for 30 minutes, right? If you don’t have time for calls, don’t book them. Right. Look at me. I came to this call. I have, you know, I have a $2 million facility, you know, in which I should just call. I’ve got a I’ve got an operator.

00;15;34;01 – 00;15;54;08
Oren Klaff
You know who operates this call? I take this very seriously. If you don’t have half an hour. Right. Who are you? I don’t know who you people are. Right? How am I going to take $3 million from you? Now, there’s the key, Ralph. How am I going to take $3 million from you if I don’t know who you are or why you do things?

00;15;54;08 – 00;16;00;27
Oren Klaff
And so you don’t know if I asked you what’s your value system? You tell me. Like what? Do you believe in me?

00;16;01;00 – 00;16;21;04
Ralph Burns
Yeah. Well, I believe in all the stuff that I repeat to my kids, which is do the right thing, you know, be a good person. You know, honest, all that sort of stuff.

00;16;21;08 – 00;16;27;16
Oren Klaff
I was like, I’ve got my two. This is a set up. You’re just going to read me the Bible, okay? Right. But no.

00;16;27;19 – 00;16;34;03
Ralph Burns
It’s not an answer I would typically give. I would give like the watered down version unless we like really got into it.

00;16;34;06 – 00;16;55;14
Oren Klaff
You know. Yeah. You’re just going to. So you as a young salesperson or a sales manager or somebody wants to sell now marketing, you have to figure out what you believe in. Now what’s in the Bible now? Don’t bang your neighbor’s wife. Not, don’t, you know, feed your kid chocolate before bed? What do you believe in? And those become your boundaries.

00;16;55;17 – 00;17;19;01
Oren Klaff
And those boundaries are the safest thing in the world to have honesty about. Because if somebody is outside your boundaries, then you’re not going to do a deal with them anyway, for sure. And what I seek in a transaction that raises my status and lowers the other person is when they say weird stuff, which the buyer always will.

00;17;19;01 – 00;17;33;13
Oren Klaff
Especially the more experienced you are with buyers in your industry, they will say something weird, right? I’ll give you an example. If you deal with a big company, they’ll ask for a discount. Hey, we’re Microsoft, right? You know, hey, we represent a big purchase. You know, we always ask for our vendor. What are you talking about? Right?

00;17;33;15 – 00;17;56;10
Oren Klaff
You’re saying we’re a big company? We have a hold on. Let me see. Oh, you have $128 billion in cash, right? We’re a nine person company. And you’re saying that you you want a tiny company to give you a discount for no other reason than you can control them, right? And so when you have power, what you do is you exert your control.

00;17;56;12 – 00;18;11;03
Oren Klaff
Is that what you’re saying? How would that feel if we have all your data, right. And then you call it on the weekend and we go, hey, we have we have now we have all the power. You need some data sorting, you know, over the weekend, it’s $50,000 add to your account or you can wait till Tuesday. How would you rate?

00;18;11;06 – 00;18;26;20
Oren Klaff
Why in the world would Microsoft, who has the ability to pay for this, want us to? Because if we discount this, we can’t do customer service properly. We can’t buy AI properly. We can’t, we can’t. We set this pricing because we have a gross margin and that like this. If you guys want to do a business deal, let me know.

00;18;26;25 – 00;18;44;15
Oren Klaff
If you just want to stomp around saying we’re Microsoft and we want a discount, let me know. I’ll give you another example. It’s always a case where you see the final boss in a deal. You’re doing a negotiation 250,000 on the contract. So right. Everybody’s agreeing to it. You’re in the final negotiation. What happens is somebody you never heard of has not been in any of the meetings.

00;18;44;17 – 00;19;11;16
Oren Klaff
There’s never been mentioned. It shows up and goes, hey, what’s going on here? Like, you know, we do this all the time, but we need a 15% discount in order to go forward with it. The final boss, it’s in every video game, but it’s also in every negotiation. And so if you have a belief system in a value system that says this is atrocious, to have your executives negotiate for six weeks, eight weeks, 12 weeks and a quarter million dollar, half million dollar thing, everybody signed off, literally have a DocuSign circulating.

00;19;11;18 – 00;19;33;19
Oren Klaff
And then somebody you’ve never met before, stomp in and go, I can’t approve this without getting a discount. And so what I will always do, and maybe this is 201, I’ll say, hey John, but great, you’re done. Right? So a couple things going on here. One, right. This is just your guys negotiation strategy. And it this is like a goofy thing you guys do.

00;19;33;21 – 00;19;53;08
Oren Klaff
You found that it works over time and you just do it. All right. No problem. Great respect. You pull the performance. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. It’s not going to work here. Right. So either either it’s a performance that you guys do and it has worked in the past. And you get 1,520% off for just you never.

00;19;53;11 – 00;20;11;13
Oren Klaff
And you guys have a belief system that says you never get anything you don’t ask for. So you just come in and ask for it. But I’m just telling you that goofy is is the real world. Or there’s another option is this is like the real you as a company and yourself, and you guys take up 30, 40 hours of our time.

00;20;11;13 – 00;20;30;15
Oren Klaff
We have a contract going back and forth. We have five people working on this. We’ve been to seven meetings. We honestly disclose our price, disclose our service. You guys shopped it a little bit. Your executives came together, right? And then at the last minute, after all that work has been done, relationship, trust, ideas, exposure, risk of being put in place.

00;20;30;18 – 00;20;54;12
Oren Klaff
And then you show up at the last minute. Right. And, and you, you know, add chaos, this ingenuity, and and break trust. And if that’s who you really are, just tell me and we will unpack our stuff and you can go use india.com, you know, and get it in China or India, right. Or somewhere else. But that is not how we build a relationship.

00;20;54;12 – 00;20;57;08
Oren Klaff
And these deals don’t work with our relationship.

00;20;57;10 – 00;21;25;07
Ralph Burns
So man of these books are it’s counterintuitive because in the sales process I’m just speaking like whether you’re pitching or whether you’re selling, it’s like you you don’t ever want to be the supplicant, but you want to be. Everyone wants to be liked and is so afraid of upsetting the prospect because, oh, if I upset them, then they won’t buy, when in fact the opposite is true.

00;21;25;09 – 00;21;40;17
Ralph Burns
It’s like you talk about small acts of defiance, but do. And it’s sort of a snarky way, or maybe a humorous way or, you know, take the moral high ground and stick to it and be like, wait a second. What? What are you talking about? Like we have, we have a sign contract. Who’s this guy coming in and go on 15?

00;21;40;24 – 00;22;09;13
Ralph Burns
Like calling bullshit when you see it. Like no salesperson I’ve ever seen. With the exception, maybe 1 or 2 will actually respond to it the way that most normal humans would because like, the sales interaction is like in this completely different world, almost where it’s like, oh, everybody’s just trying to be nice to the other one, and somebody is on the high ground and somebody is on the lower ground, and you’re like, completely trying to reverse that in so many different methodologies.

00;22;40;13 – 00;22;45;13
Ralph Burns
All the links that I mentioned here on today’s show, as well as references to other shows, are in the show notes over at Perpetual Traffic. Com make sure you leave a rating and or review a real listen to podcasts allows us to get this show out to a wider audience, and teach people how to do digital marketing the right way in 2026 and beyond, through metrics, matter, and growth at scales.

So until the next show, see you. You’ve been listening to Perpetual Traffic.

Episode 790: Stop Saying This on Sales Calls (It Hurts Your Deals)

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Stop Saying This on Sales Calls (It Hurts Your Deals)

More Episodes

Episode 789: Why Pausing Meta Ads Based on CPA Is a BIG Mistake!

Episode 788: Why the Funnel Is Dead (And What Actually Drives Growth Now)

Episode 787: The Funnel Is Dead. Here’s What Full-Funnel Actually Means Now

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