Episode 791: 5 Missed Forecasts. Then One Budget Shift. Then 4 Straight Hits.

April 14, 2026

Are you scaling ad spend but getting worse results? If your ROAS looks amazing while your growth stalls, you might be optimizing for the wrong thing, and it’s costing you more than you think.

In this episode, I sit down with Scott Desgrosseilliers from Wicked Reports to break down one of the best case studies we’ve ever run at Tier 11. After five consecutive missed forecasts, we made a bold move and achieved incredible results.

We cut over 90% of Amazon spend and reallocated the budget to top-of-funnel channels. The result? Four straight quarters of growth, lower customer acquisition costs, and a massive increase in MER.

We show you how we used multi-touch attribution, incrementality testing, and creative strategy to drive real business outcomes. If you’ve ever questioned whether your “best” channels are holding you back, this case study will help rethink and optimize your ad budget allocation.

In this episode you’ll learn:

Why high ROAS can kill growth in performance marketing
The risk of over-investing in bottom-of-funnel channels
How to use incrementality testing to uncover wasted spend
The role of multi-touch attribution in scaling profitably
Why Google Brand and Amazon ads often steal credit
How top-of-funnel channels drive organic and direct traffic growth
Using MER (Media Efficiency Ratio) as a true north metric
The impact of creative strategy on demand generation
How to interpret impression vs click-based data
Why cutting ad spend can actually increase revenue and efficiency

Thanks so much for joining us this week. Want to subscribe to Perpetual Traffic?

Have some feedback you’d like to share? Connect with us on iTunes and leave us a review!

READ THE TRANSCRIPT:

5 Missed Forecasts. Then One Budget Shift. Then 4 Straight Hits.

00:00:00:00 – 00:00:11:14
Scott Desgrosseilliers
People are searching for your brand. If you don’t show up at the top every time. Your competitors are going to grab them. Now, in theory, that’s an easy thing to understand. That’s driven a ton of spend on brand across many brands that we see.

00:00:11:14 – 00:00:21:18
Ralph Burns
But that, as this case study is going to prove, that’s not always true. This is the biggest challenge with brands right now that have a performance marketing mindset.

00:00:21:19 – 00:00:45:14
Scott Desgrosseilliers
You have an impression without a click. How do you read into your secondary metrics to know that you’re going to make the right decisions, to shift, allocate, spend from the bottom of funnel channels to the top of funnel channels? They had a real problem, and they had five consecutive missed forecasts before starting working with us. Here’s visually representing what we did.

00:00:45:16 – 00:01:17:15
Ralph Burns
Hello and welcome to the prepare for Traffic podcast. This is your host, Ralph Burns, founder and CEO of tier 11. And today we have a special guest. And this time, I guarantee you I’m going to pronounce his name correctly. We have none other than Scott de Grossi from Wicked Reports. That’s only French vowels years. We we just realised we’ve known each other for over 12 years, and I’ve never been able to pronounce your goddamn name.

00:01:17:17 – 00:01:38:01
Scott Desgrosseilliers
No, you haven’t. You. You’re taller than I am. I know, I know, I just call you wicked, Scott. It’s just so much easier there were anyway. So. Like what? What are. Where does that come from again? It’s like you’re a former some sort. It’s French. It means the gooseberries. Because my ancestors were Dewsbury winemakers, which it turns out doesn’t taste that great.

00:01:38:01 – 00:02:06:18
Ralph Burns
That’s why you drink Cabernet and not gooseberry Sauvignon. That’s why I work. I’ve heard it was. I heard laundering. Yeah, like elderberry wine. Blueberry wine. But. But gooseberries. I don’t even know. How does that feel? Like tart in our tart part. And like us as main French people, we’re pretty tart. So I kind of fits. Pretty tart. Well, we’ve got a pretty tart case study here today, which we’re going to talk about.

00:02:06:18 – 00:02:36:10
Scott Desgrosseilliers
That’s a doozy. So the title of today’s show, as you probably saw, is probably the thing that you clicked on to listen to this or watch it is five missed forecasts. Then one budget shift on massive budget shifts, by the way, and then four straight quarters of growth, four straight hits. And this, client of ours is in the pet e-comm space, very high end product, names and financials shall remain confidential.

00:02:36:12 – 00:03:04:03
Ralph Burns
But we’re going to talk to you about about what’s most important for you all, which is the types of problems that these guys came to us with. And I think it’s a great example of how to use tech enabled services together, how to use the Wicked Reports platform specifically. We obviously use tier 11 data suite. We use an edge tech server, which it gives us a bit of a competitive advantage when it comes to attributing specific clicks back to their original source.

00:03:04:03 – 00:03:22:15
Scott Desgrosseilliers
However, Wicked Reports is our preferred partner, without a doubt. As far as like anything that you want with regard to attribution and without their help, we never could produce these results here today, quite honestly, because we’re relying on in-app data, we would have been absolutely screwed and absolutely lost. And that’s where they were when they came to us.

00:03:22:17 – 00:04:01:19
Ralph Burns
Scott. So here’s the problem, okay? Like if you’re a director of marketing or a VP of marketing, how often have you ever increased ad spend but watched your results get worse? That’s where that whole story is. I think it’s, you know, I mean, this study is a beautiful use of stitching together the data, the story it was telling, but also then using multi-touch attribution combined with an incrementality mindset, but with a few advanced shifts that not everyone, everyone can see this data or they’ll come and they’ll understand the philosophy of what we’re going to talk about.

00:04:01:21 – 00:04:20:06
Scott Desgrosseilliers
But few just have the stones to make the move. So we have to talk about like, what went through your mind when you you were like, okay, this is the plan. We’re going to do it. And then how you communicated that to the brands important. And then when you cut in a certain area that will reveal and moved it to the other area, which didn’t look as good.

00:04:20:07 – 00:04:45:14
Scott Desgrosseilliers
Like these are things that, you know, anyone in the I’d say 10 to $50 million went well, actually, all the way up 10 to $50 million revenue range. When you’ve got a budget that’s supposed to be top of funnel, and then you got brand spending and Amazon bottom and how to how to read those numbers and make changes that meaningfully move the overall North star of the business is that’s why this is just a beautiful case study I love it.

00:04:45:14 – 00:05:15:19
Ralph Burns
Yeah, it really is. I think, quite frankly, I mean, we’re not talking about this case study to say how brilliant we are, but to talk to you about like how to look at the same data that we are seeing and be able to understand it and then make strategic decisions based upon the client goal. And the client goal was very clear to us, like they came to us with a big problem, and it took us a few months to figure out the strategy and the direction.

00:05:15:19 – 00:05:41:07
Scott Desgrosseilliers
And it wasn’t just spend more on this channel and everything’s great. It was they had a real problem and they had five consecutive missed forecasts before starting working with us. Like the tail end of the summer of last year. They came to us in the summer. This is a seasonal product. So the summertime springtime is really is their busy season into the fall, into the winter a little bit less.

00:05:41:07 – 00:06:02:06
Ralph Burns
So most of the results that we actually got or in the fall, in the winter. So here we are, sort of on the cusp of, you know, spring going into summer. And we’re seeing even better results like this is from, you know, 3 or 4 weeks ago, I’m seeing even better results right now. But the point is this is that from June through October of last year, their unit targets, they have very specific unit targets.

00:06:02:06 – 00:06:34:00
Scott Desgrosseilliers
And if you’re an e-commerce brand or you’re just a a brand in general, you probably have specific goals for units sold or new customers acquired. And so they were acquiring less customers, but their monthly costs were increasing, their spend was increasing, but they’re getting less new customers. They couldn’t figure out why. Combine that with the fact that their cost to acquire a new customer or their Ncac, which is one of the most important things that we could reports can really specifically measure, like new customer versus returning customer.

00:06:34:00 – 00:06:55:16
Ralph Burns
It kind of important to know those two things contract versus archaic. It was it hit an all time high and their case was $193, I believe, but it was going in the wrong direction, was trending upwards as opposed to down. So typical in a lot of these scenarios. And we can dissect this a little bit more is that, you know, the Amazon and the Google looked great in the dashboard.

00:06:55:16 – 00:07:15:23
Scott Desgrosseilliers
And there they were using triple well, which is as we’ve talked about many times, is not our preferred vendor. Very pretty interface. However, they use a lot of model data. It’s not actual click data. So they couldn’t really figure out what to do. But they did know that Amazon and Google looked great and they should. And we’ll realise why.

00:07:16:01 – 00:07:44:20
Ralph Burns
But it’s not a productive way to scale. What they were not doing is they were not creating demand at top of funnel. And this is where it’s really tricky because top of funnel, whether it’s meta, whether it’s YouTube, whether it’s programmatic, which we’re going to talk about here, native advertising, connected TV, you know, any sort of like programmatic we’re using, you know, any of the individual networks, you don’t see a click oftentimes, but you’re spending.

00:07:44:20 – 00:08:07:01
Scott Desgrosseilliers
And so it’s really hard to measure how does this all work together? So they were doing connected TV and they had no idea they just were spending it. But they had no idea how that was affecting the bottom line. So top of funnel was really a problem. And this is this is the real thing that I think you as a marketing manager or director of marketing, you’re spending more, you’re hitting nothing.

00:08:07:03 – 00:08:24:23
Ralph Burns
Your boss wants answers and it’s like you don’t have an answer for them. Like, I don’t know what’s going on. It seems like Google and Amazon are doing well. Let’s spend more of their do exactly the opposite thing that we did here. So that’s sort of the layout. That’s sort of the crisis that we were faced with. I’m sure you see this a lot of times with a lot of businesses that you work with.

00:08:24:23 – 00:08:46:17
Scott Desgrosseilliers:
Scott, this is not a typical it’s fairly typical in a lot of ways. But what they do about it is really the differentiator is what they do about it. We get a couple of large GLP one brands using us, which this is going to be my retention video most likely to be like, hey, do this because they have this situation or they can just hire cherry 11.

00:08:46:19 – 00:09:09:23
Ralph Burns
I know some other I know others that do as well. And and it’s when that the if you strictly use the actual in platform row as you just you’re going to cost yourself money. And that’s going to be when you see higher return on ad spends reported. But it doesn’t move whatever the Northstar metric is because this customer, for example, Ncac, was their overall goal.

00:09:10:01 – 00:09:17:22
Scott Desgrosseilliers:
As long as we’re buying new customers at this certain price, we can spend infinity. Theoretically. Right. And then but what happens is that,

00:09:17:22 – 00:09:32:15
Ralph Burns
well, I mean, Meta’s algorithm optimises for the fastest conversion, and the fastest one is people that are already aware. And in your funnel are, you know, already in-market. And so that can keep a nice return on ad spend numbers.

00:09:32:20 – 00:09:49:08
Scott Desgrosseilliers:
But it’s not going to get any new fresh eyeballs or enough in that are eventually going to convert. And that’s why you get caught. This recycling loop is what I call it, where you have your budget, you want it for cold traffic, but really it gets spent on people that are ready to convert now. And so the numbers seem good because oh man, I’m getting sales.

00:09:49:08 – 00:10:02:22
Ralph Burns
But no, it’s sales that are either happening because meta is retargeting or meta is retargeting them. And then they’re closing on your email and SMS or direct and then meta is taking credit. The same problem that’s existed since the beginning of measurement time. Yeah.

00:10:02:22 – 00:10:12:06
Scott Desgrosseilliers
And so the fact then you have to have the you well first of all, you got to have the cohesive strategy of getting aligned with your clients on the goal.

00:10:12:08 – 00:10:32:00
Ralph Burns
Like if they came with a crystal clear goal and then you supported that and didn’t try to argue, oh no, I want to measure it this other way. You said, okay, well, we’re going to use new customers, really. And then you got to show them the reality of the new customers, and they have to accept the reality of what the new customer acquisition baseline performance.

00:10:32:04 – 00:10:50:18
Scott Desgrosseilliers
They come in, they miss the forecast, they’re open, but then they’re like, oh, well, the numbers look good. Why not? But they’re at least now, after missing forecast enough time, they you know, they say, okay, I will listen. And then you’re like, well, here’s the problem. Here’s the new customers. What you say you got this 600%, you know, six Roas in Google, but on your brand it’s like ten x.

00:10:50:20 – 00:11:14:15
Ralph Burns
Well guess what? It’s mostly repeating customers, right? You’re not going to cycling. You’re not going to grow your business. Keep doing the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. And for this brand this is not a CPG brand. So I mean for this is typically a one sale. Or maybe there might be a secondary sale if they have a secondary like as they have two dogs, for example, they might or they might buy one time.

00:11:14:15 – 00:11:36:10
Scott Desgrosseilliers
This is not, a cheap product by any stretch. However, you know, it’s over $1,000, any of which is new average order value. So LTV is roughly equal to AOF. Oh, right. Because you. Yeah, I got it out. So you’ve got to be really precise on that first acquisition because you’re not going to buy him at break even.

00:11:36:10 – 00:11:50:13
Ralph Burns
Let’s say you have a $50 product and you’ve got you know, you know, media is going through and you can just sell them more bags, you know, in a month or whatever. And you can’t be that with this thing. It’s do you spend 11 big. Exactly. You got to be

00:11:50:13 – 00:12:10:06
Scott Desgrosseilliers
profitable right from the jump. Which is, which makes this case study more compelling, because in a lot of cases, like we have a lot of customers in the supplement niche and beauty niche as a CPG products, their pros are like, all right, we can break even or maybe lose money on the initial sale because we know that $100 average order value, any of that

00:12:10:12 – 00:12:40:19
Ralph Burns
turns into a 700 LTV. So which is very different. So by month 2 or 3, they’re profitable on that customer that maybe we can acquire for $50 or $70 or whatever your gross profitability is, you can sort of you need. This is where you really need to understand what your margins are, what you can and are willing to pay to acquire a customer, and then how much that win back period is from a profitability standpoint.

00:12:40:19 – 00:12:59:05
Scott Desgrosseilliers
Is it month one, two, three, four, five, six? Some cases they never go profitable. It’s just about like a case study that we always use when John and I go live on our Friday lives, is we always use his individual business for the partner of his. They don’t even care if they’re profitable. They just pour everything back into the business.

00:12:59:05 – 00:13:17:16
Ralph Burns
So they pay $300 to acquire a customer. And the LTV, I believe is like six 700. The point is this it’s like it depends on what your goal is, and their goal is to acquire as many customers as possible than sell. So it depends on what the goal of the businesses. And that’s the thing. Like when I go out and meet clients like the that’s the first thing I ask them, like, what do you want?

00:13:17:18 – 00:13:44:20
Scott Desgrosseilliers
Like what’s your goal? And the goal with this client was we haven’t hit like in five quarters. Like we need to get new customers at a cost that makes sense. And that because of that, we need to acquire more customers and we need to do it at a lower end. And it was very, very clear from the start that they had a lot of wasted spending a lot of places because they didn’t have visibility into what was actually happening in the entire ecosystem, not just channel by channel, by channel by channel.

00:13:45:02 – 00:14:04:16
Ralph Burns
And that’s how the way most businesses work right now, they look by a channel and make decision by channel as opposed to looking at the entire ecosystem. How does it all work together? Because they all do work together. When you’re looking in. So when you set like in this client’s case they had an end goal. What was it.

00:14:04:18 – 00:14:25:05
Scott Desgrosseilliers
I mean ballpark like 500 bucks. On if they sent it for a thousand I don’t know. It’s it’s more and like 150 below range. So yeah it’s aggressive. Yeah I just I’m just I didn’t see their. Okay. So you’re trying to make six 7 to 1 on initial purchase which anyone to drool over. Yeah. Which is great.

00:14:25:06 – 00:14:47:19
Ralph Burns
Very good. But then the middle. Wow. That’s I didn’t see that detail. So then when, when you see that the in that case. So when you see that the overall because what normally would happen you get all your click based attribution setup or all whatever sources of truth are you going to use. And then those knickknacks are going to be all over the place based on the ethic down at the granular level.

00:14:47:21 – 00:15:09:23
Scott Desgrosseilliers
So like your your branded Google campaign can have a nice low end cache. And there’s all the Google alerts going to tell you scale, scale, scale. You’re leaving demand on the table. And, that’s not true. It’s just actually not you’re not it’s not what’s happened. But they’ve created a very good case of well, this is, people are searching for your brand.

00:15:09:23 – 00:15:29:05
Ralph Burns
If you don’t show up at the top every time, your competitors are going to grab them. Now, in theory, that’s an easy thing to understand. That’s driven a ton of spend on brand across many brands that we see. But that, as this case study is going to prove, that’s not always true. Now you can immediately cut your brand spend to zero and then move it all.

00:15:29:05 – 00:15:54:04
Scott Desgrosseilliers
But you you have to take steps to get there where you’re lowering it and finding out when I move ad spend from this channel that I know isn’t bringing me new customers to channels that I know are bringing me more new customers, and then I wait. However long it takes normally for new customers to convert. Does my overall North Star stay the same because it or improve?

00:15:54:06 – 00:16:13:12
Ralph Burns
Because if it stays the same and you move like 100 grand in budget to the top of the funnel and your new your overall end stays the same regardless of the tracking, let’s pretend you have no tracking. You can have no tracking, but if that happens, then that means you have more overall money from new customers at a massive, profitable spent.

00:16:13:13 – 00:16:38:16
Scott Desgrosseilliers
And so you just keep pushing that needle. As far as you can go, which I think you guys did, to the tune of millions of dollars a month at the base level. When we looked at this, we realised two things were wrong. Is we did incremental testing for bottom of funnel. So when I say bottom of funnel they sell on Amazon.

00:16:38:16 – 00:17:05:16
Ralph Burns
They also get a lot of business through last click through a Google branded search. So either Google branded ads and or SEO. Yeah. So like if they were in Ga4 they’re probably going to show a lot of direct traffic, some organic. And then the amount that was going to show for Google and Facebook would be just the retargeting or brand brand, if it’s on Google or the retargeting on Facebook or maybe Google Shopping, it’s going to show that revenue.

00:17:05:18 – 00:17:34:06
Scott Desgrosseilliers
And so all that direct, you got to think of this brand. They’re not there. I mean, they’re solid, great business, but they’re not a household name, not like Yeti mugs or, you know, Microsoft. So if people are going direct, it’s something up funnel that led to that direct. So every penny there is being misattributed. Right. So explain direct because I think direct unattributed unknown is a is is a epidemic in this industry.

00:17:34:06 – 00:18:00:05
Ralph Burns
Because if you were using GA for a Google Analytics for you will see a large portion, maybe 50, 60, 70%, even some of the attribution softwares. You’re seeing a large portion in that bucket which basically tells you nothing. Yes. So a direct click means someone just typed in your website and went straight there. Right? Or. Yeah, because if they clicked on a link from somewhere, it would show up in Google Analytics as a referral.

00:18:00:07 – 00:18:21:03
Scott Desgrosseilliers
So direct means all they know is that they have the URL loaded and the user checked out. However, your tracking is set up in ga4 usually fire tag or something. And so that again I mean almost any brand, particularly 100 million, unless you had to do something to get them to know your URL, it wasn’t like you were on.

00:18:21:03 – 00:18:42:23
Ralph Burns
You know, you’re just a everyone’s talking about you in the streets. That’d be great. Unlike awareness had to be created somewhere else. Is awareness some sort of funnel. And then after that they became aware of you. And then, you know, however you define your funnel, there’s a talk where they hear about you, a middle where they contemplate in the bottom, where they debate between you and whatever other options they’re going to choose.

00:18:43:01 – 00:19:02:11
Scott Desgrosseilliers
And so direct is saying, oh, well, they knew you well enough at that point to type in your URL. So wouldn’t it be great to know what led someone to know your URL, type it in, and then spend the thousand bucks? In this case, like that’s valuable info. Every single one’s worth $1,000 is worth 6 to 1 profit every single one in there.

00:19:02:13 – 00:19:31:00
Ralph Burns
And so we tried it. And so you got to try to decode that, to say, okay, with your incrementality approach. It’s it’s not just I’m going to cut brand spend or other activities and move them to the profitable channels. It’s I’m going to move them to the top of funnel campaigns within those channels that are specifically segmented. The messaging, the approach is all around acquiring new customers.

00:19:31:02 – 00:19:59:10
Scott Desgrosseilliers
In the in this premium e-com, it’s mostly a one time purchase. So it’s the same type of marketing that in many brands you have a smaller AOV and you’re doing different marketing to get the LTV or the bigger upsell or whatever. So it’s what you’re moving the spend a top of funnel, first time purchases that become worth the value you need them to become in the time period you need it, which is very different than just saying, oh, Google looks good, let’s move ad spend to Google is no.

00:19:59:10 – 00:20:23:03
Ralph Burns
We’re going to take specific cuts from the budget and move them to the top of funnels that we believe are driving the bottom. And if we’re right, we’re going to hit our North Star goal and we’re going to have more overall efficiency, more money in the bank, more profit or more revenue growth for the spend is done by blended row Asmr or just hitting the end goal, the overall one.

00:20:23:05 – 00:20:43:17
Scott Desgrosseilliers
And that was just a huge lesson here. It’s a little tactical, but a lot of people say, oh yeah, that’s great. And they face the numbers and they don’t do it. They just they’re terrified to cut like Google brand because they see like a ten x. I was looking the other day, I see a bunch of people with ten x and they’re like, ooh, I have to report Roas to the boss.

00:20:43:17 – 00:21:02:07
Ralph Burns
I don’t want to cut my thing. The ten x that’s propping up my overall stats, and that’s where you got to have alignment with the person cutting the checks, because then the agencies like what I get cut like, oh, we’re the same. We’re the same revenue. We were you were reporting all this great Roas and with the same revenue and the same new customers.

00:21:02:13 – 00:21:24:00
Scott Desgrosseilliers
So why not just do it ourselves and take it in-house or try another agency out? That’s why they do it. But the agency doesn’t change their mind because they see that big Roas number and they they should just have the combo, because otherwise it’s a lot of agency churn and a lot of reasons for that. But this is a key one in the in the 10 to 100 million revenue space that I see that you guys.

00:21:24:01 – 00:21:45:16
Ralph Burns
So how you went through that combo, they came to you because they had already had the frustration and who knows what they were using before. Yeah. But then how did you start the to me the fascinating one is, well, the two things for me that I’m curious about. Okay. When you decided you’re going to do this move, how did you communicate it and then how dramatic did you cut?

00:21:45:18 – 00:22:08:08
Scott Desgrosseilliers
And then did you just throw it on top of funnel everywhere, or did you then use click as directional or what did you do there? Because that’s like the thing that people don’t dare to do and they didn’t need to do. So that’s the ballsy part of this whole thing is like, you have to use and the team that’s on this has been doing this for ten plus years, knows attribution, understands contribution different than attribution.

00:22:08:08 – 00:22:28:06
Ralph Burns
What contributes typically in a media mix that attributes to the bottom line. And we knew that Amazon and Google looked great okay. And we said we thought and this is part of the overall strategy is like what will you look at. We’re not looking at. All right. Let’s just spend more on that channel because that’s easy to do.

00:22:28:06 – 00:22:44:19
Scott Desgrosseilliers
If I’m spending more on Google brand because I’m getting ten x, that’s easy to do. But does it actually help you get more customers? No. It just you spend more to acquire customers at the bottom of the funnel. What the team understood is they had to create demand for top of funnel.

00:22:44:19 – 00:22:52:16
Ralph Burns
And there’s a real differentiator in this product versus the competition or this product versus no competition.

00:22:52:21 – 00:23:27:02
Scott Desgrosseilliers
A lot of people don’t even know it exists, and it’s a great product. And you might be thinking yourself as a listener of this show. I’ve got a great product. Nobody just knows that I exist. Well, a lot of it had to do with top of funnel messaging, and we realised through a lot of the metrics that we saw in some of their meta ads and some of their even, they hadn’t even done much in the way of Google, couldn’t really measure anything on the programmatic and or the native advertising side, because we didn’t have that as we saw a ton of direct, a ton of unattributed inside gaffer as well as through triple L,

00:23:27:02 – 00:24:06:03
Ralph Burns
which is, you know, the attribution software that they they still use to a certain degree. However, it was not the North Star. So what we found is that if we really analyse the numbers, Amazon was not creating the demand. Amazon was just capturing that bottom of funnel. Last click and we said to ourselves, what if we cut that spend and then determined and and measured how many units were continuing to sell even as we cut spend Google brand like they’re googling the name, like people find out who you are somewhere else, that they’ve never heard of who you are.

00:24:06:03 – 00:24:22:18
Scott Desgrosseilliers
They see it on Instagram, or maybe they see it on Facebook. It’s, you know, on YouTube. Maybe they see it just because a friend of theirs talks about it and says, hey, this is a great product. And they go Google it. They go look for it on Amazon. This is how people buy. So that traffic we knew was coming in, it was ready to buy.

00:24:23:00 – 00:24:45:19
Ralph Burns
And so we said, hey, why are we spending so much on Google brand for this particular keyword? So our first theory was to do incrementality testing on Amazon and Google. And hypothesis was, is that Amazon was taking credit for conversions from the other channels and that Google brand was charging premium cost per click for traffic that they would have clicked anyway.

00:24:45:22 – 00:25:08:07
Scott Desgrosseilliers
So they’re overspending on these. So what we started to do is we started to trim down those budgets over time. And I’ll actually show you a visual here. If you go over to our, YouTube channel, perpetual Traffic forward slash YouTube, you can actually see what I’m talking about here. So here’s visually representing what we did. So we cut Amazon budget by 91% over the course of many months.

00:25:08:07 – 00:25:28:10
Ralph Burns
You can see October all the way through February, the spend going from 50 some odd thousand down to about 4 or $5000 a month. We didn’t do it all at once. We didn’t cut it, didn’t hack it. We cut it basically by 50% to start and then measure the amount of units that were sold. So this was a challenging time to do this.

00:25:28:10 – 00:25:48:11
Scott Desgrosseilliers
And this is where strategy really becomes so, so important is that you cut spend but you’re also realising, okay, this is Black Friday, Cyber Monday. So you’re going to get a lot of lift here anyway. But what we want to see is if can we cut Amazon spend in the units sold. Basically stay flat or maybe even increase over time.

00:25:48:13 – 00:26:08:19
Ralph Burns
And that’s the key. So spending more doesn’t necessarily equate to more sales in many cases. As long as you are generating demand somewhere else. We’ll get to that component in just a second here. This is the ballsy move that the team was able to make and talk to the client, say, listen, we really feel that you’re overspending on Amazon.

00:26:08:19 – 00:26:30:13
Scott Desgrosseilliers
This was mostly branded search for their brand name. If you recreate top of funnel awareness over on meta, over on YouTube, people are going to go to Amazon. Hey, can I buy this on Amazon? And they’re going to type in the name of your product, or maybe the product name, or maybe the company name, whatever they can remember or maybe the basic keyword that’s similar to it.

00:26:30:13 – 00:26:52:03
Ralph Burns
In this particular case, we’re not going to name what that is. However, we said, all right, this was our theory. If we cut spend, can we get the same amount of sales. And then as a result of that, spending less on the Amazon and spending less on Google, which I’ll show you in just a second, will increase their media efficiency ratio and they’ll make more money overall.

00:26:52:03 – 00:27:13:19
Scott Desgrosseilliers
And that’s the goal to get new customers but not overpay for them. So when you here’s the results. Spend. Did you you didn’t just put in their pocket you moved it out. We don’t have to talk about that yet. But you moved it somewhere. That was also yeah okay. Because otherwise you could cut it and happen. But looking on the units to the right, they wouldn’t stay flat.

00:27:13:19 – 00:27:37:01
Ralph Burns
Or it looks like they might even ticked up a little from the normal baseline. Yep. But basically that spend went elsewhere and it didn’t hurt Amazon and it helped the overall business everywhere. Correct? Correct. Does that mean running no matter who you’re running then yeah, you’re you’re blended real as well. Go up temporarily. But it’s because of what you did with this spend that also matters to to part.

00:27:37:03 – 00:27:56:03
Scott Desgrosseilliers
Exactly. So this is the first part. So I said there’s two parts to this whole thing. So we knew that we had good top of funnel awareness. We knew that meta was creating a lot of awareness there. YouTube was spending it was creating a lot of awareness. We’re also going to introduce native and programmatic into the equation in November.

00:27:56:05 – 00:28:17:05
Ralph Burns
So we knew we had a lot sort of top of funnel. We could create as long as we were representing the product from a creative standpoint in an original way, which captured interest, captured like that’s the key, captured attention, captured awareness, maybe even consideration. And then it’s like they’re like, wow, that’s a really cool product that I just saw on Instagram.

00:28:17:05 – 00:28:36:20
Scott Desgrosseilliers
That’s a really cool product. I saw over on that pre-roll ad that I saw on YouTube, hey, once we introduced programmatic, where I saw this cool native advertising, like, people don’t say this, but they saw an ad on native on some website somewhere that says, hey, this is a really cool product. I’m going to go find out if I can buy it on Amazon.

00:28:36:22 – 00:28:59:07
Ralph Burns
So I might not click. I might just view. So we knew we were creating that top of funnel awareness. We’re like, why are we overpaying at bottom of funnel? So we started to cut spend on Amazon. And you can see the Amazon units basically stayed flat. Now overall units increased. But we’ll get that in just a second. So same sort of thing we did same sort of thing we did over on Google brand.

00:28:59:07 – 00:29:21:18
Scott Desgrosseilliers
So Google brand or like they’re overspending on Google brand like let’s cut that budget, cut 50% and then move it to where you were. They were you moved it later. And then how long did you wait to measure that? The top line using CPU that you really mean Ncac I think, yeah. See this cost per unit. This is the this is what their vernacular is but it’s Ncac, it’s cost to acquire.

00:29:21:20 – 00:29:44:16
Ralph Burns
Okay, so how long did you wait. You cut the spend because I know how long I would have waited based on the data I just went and picked. But how long did you guys wait? We knew right here we were on to something because we knew that if we could, we create the top of funnel awareness. We would also realise organic revenue would increase.

00:29:44:18 – 00:30:05:07
Scott Desgrosseilliers
We also realised that email revenue would increase. And then subsequently, we also saw that Amazon revenue started to increase. So. But why did you wait when you cut it though? The first 50% cut, we were like, okay, well we’re just going to wait like a week and see or a month. I said, hey, how long for a timeline?

00:30:05:07 – 00:30:25:19
Ralph Burns
Where are you willing to give your hypothesis? Because that was it was writing us really like within weeks, because in most cases, this is anywhere between a seven and 30 day sales cycle between 1st and 1666. Okay. So we have a we have a thing that once we have enough data, we can track first click the first purchase.

00:30:26:01 – 00:30:45:18
Scott Desgrosseilliers
Yeah. And do the average. And it was 16 days was their average. So right in the middle sir you have a weeks trip. True. But remember you’re tracking clicks. And I think we’re getting a little bit in the weeds here. But you’re tracking clicks. We’re also tracking impressions like this is based upon data that our growth strategist is reading.

00:30:45:18 – 00:31:13:06
Ralph Burns
He’s reading the tea leaves. Like oftentimes we’re not getting a click on that first impression. The thing about like Wicked Reports and Data Suite is that a can’t show impression like first impression, but it can show click. So we were using our insights on impressions versus click to say, okay, anywhere between 7 to 30 days we’re going to start seeing some movement as we reallocate this budget bottom of funnel to top of funnel.

00:31:13:12 – 00:31:32:23
Scott Desgrosseilliers
Does that make sense? It does. I would have said so. The idea is the click path. I advise that you double not because it took two weeks of impressions, but that’s just what I’ve been doing this like 12 years. You need that. That’s the first days cohort of the click people. And then there’s the delay of the view people.

00:31:32:23 – 00:31:35:07
Ralph Burns
So to really give top of the funnel effect. So

00:31:35:07 – 00:31:54:11
Scott Desgrosseilliers
if you don’t have any data and you just have an opinion on my leads, take two weeks to buy or like traffic, then you should double it. Because if you double it, then you’ve actually given the top of the funnel strategy enough time to give actual input in. So 7 to 30 is a saying, yeah, you want to check seven day because the seven day it was like everything’s in the tank.

00:31:54:13 – 00:32:10:20
Ralph Burns
That next week would have been tough, but you should have held out at least two. But I would argue it’s double what. Whatever you generally know, you’re if you don’t have ideally get data. You guys had granular data. But if you know whatever you think it is, double it. And that’s how long top of funnel needs to make an impact on the bottom.

00:32:10:20 – 00:32:12:21
Scott Desgrosseilliers
It’s like just always proven out

00:32:12:21 – 00:32:30:16
Ralph Burns
that they think that’s a double what. Yeah double your click. So I think that’s the reason why the team realised okay if we start shifting this and this was right in the middle of Black Friday, Cyber Monday too, we also knew there was going to be a surge just based upon promotions based upon their promotional calendar.

00:32:30:18 – 00:32:56:02
Scott Desgrosseilliers
So but this is when you make these types of shifts, it’s always a calculated risk. You have to be able to read the data. We did not do this. The first thing that we did, like we had been working with these guys since mid-March, you know, mid-summer. So we knew how everything flowed from top of funnel, the bottom of funnel, the growth strategies was reading those tea leaves, so to speak, and knowing that, yeah, there’s impression share.

00:32:56:02 – 00:33:18:09
Ralph Burns
But then there’s also click data. We’re looking at inside tier 11 data suite Wicked Reports. And we’re realising that okay, if we start to shift budget we’ll start seeing the effects of that budget in and around 14 to 30 days thereabouts. And that’s precisely what happened. So that was the first hypothesis is cut ad spend and reallocate it to other areas.

00:33:18:11 – 00:33:38:18
Scott Desgrosseilliers
And that’s really the keys to this whole thing, is that I wouldn’t say that, you know, cutting budget on Amazon and Google brand was the key. The next key was moving budget from bottom. Yeah. No way to put it. Shopify. Where are you going to put it. If you just moved it to bottom funnel on the other channels, you wouldn’t have had this result.

00:33:38:18 – 00:34:01:18
Ralph Burns
You might have had a little blip, but it wouldn’t have been this dramatic result, because that’s the issue with Incrementality we talked about at the beginning. Like it’s worth repeating. So if you you did, you had the perfect approach right now. But if you just said, oh, I’m going to put it on high Roas, other channels, including meta, and you just then looked in your meta in platform and dumped it all in your reach.

00:34:01:18 – 00:34:23:19
Scott Desgrosseilliers
It would have, you know, retargeting would have had the best stats in all the ad in your meta and then, you know, snap or TikTok or Pin retargeting would show the best. Never mind. CTV was all impression based. You wouldn’t have got these results, so you had to deploy it specifically. The deployments is key. So let’s get into that.

00:34:23:20 – 00:34:48:15
Ralph Burns
Yeah yeah yeah. Here we go. So here you go. So here’s what basically happened. So we did it sort of all at once. So like I said we’ve been working with them for quite some time. We knew what we wanted to do, but we didn’t want to do it all at once. But we knew the data. So we realised that all right now is as good a time as any, because we started to change the mix of top of funnel spend.

00:34:48:17 – 00:35:12:07
Scott Desgrosseilliers
And in August, where we’re sort of still formulating this strategy, our top of funnel spend was only 39% thereabouts of overall spent, most of the funnel was being spent. Most of the ad spend was at bottom of funnel, meaning Amazon meaning Google. Google search, Google branded search specifically, maybe some of the keywords that they were trying to rank for.

00:35:12:09 – 00:35:45:07
Ralph Burns
But here’s where it changes is, like I said, we cut spend, but then we simultaneously started to increase on top of funnel channels. We added a new channel in November and December, which is programmatic and narrative. So this combination, this increase in spend is a combination of both meta, very top of funnel, lots of user generated content, testimonials, you know, sort of very low fi types of ads, really good from some of their affiliates that they had used in the past.

00:35:45:09 – 00:36:11:09
Scott Desgrosseilliers
The point is this we started reallocating a lot of those creative resources, creative assets under these top of funnel sources, which, like I said, YouTube, Facebook, you know, Instagram, the meta platforms. And then last but not least, we added in programmatic. So very high end on the top of funnel here. And you can see this shift starts to happen from the 30s into the 50s.

00:36:11:11 – 00:36:45:09
Ralph Burns
And we’ve now increased this about 60 or 70% into March and April right now, because right now is actually sort of their busiest season. So you can see the correlate of change here is that this is once again CPU is is cost to acquire a new customer. The change happened with without being able to measure cost to acquire a new customer, not just any customer like most of their customers are new because it’s, typically it’s a one time or maybe a two time purchase is that we were able to measure what the blended cost per acquired customer was.

00:36:45:09 – 00:37:07:21
Scott Desgrosseilliers
And you can see it perfectly correlates with the shift in spend between bottom of funnel to top of funnel. And now we’re under 120. We’re actually under 120 now, ongoing into April as of this recording. Yeah. You have to update your chart here. Yeah, well. Thank you. Hey, it’s now it’s real time stuff here as much as Boston.

00:37:07:21 – 00:37:31:19
Ralph Burns
Up. Claude, do it real quick. Hey, here’s another month of data. Slap it in the amount of data. Oh, I’ll have to do that as a follow up, because, I mean, what would what I really like to see is how this relates to the busier seasons into spring, into summer. Keep in mind, we’re doing this and the, you know, the least busy season, although there’s always like the Christmas rush and there’s the, you know, Black Friday, Cyber Monday.

00:37:31:21 – 00:38:03:07
Scott Desgrosseilliers
The point is this is that was very strategic as to how you would actually, you know, shift spend here. The the other part to this, like I said, is that we started spending far more on Knative and Taboola specifically. And we don’t talk about Taboola a lot. Yeah, it’s only ever about to build a lot. Well, it’s sort of a it’s a sleeper because taboola and programmatic, just in general, all the programmatic platforms, which includes Ktvb native, you know, all the individual apps.

00:38:03:07 – 00:38:27:12
Ralph Burns
The point is this, is that this is very, very top of funnel and does not typically does not typically have a click, especially on CTV. There’s no click on CTV connected TV, which is basically the ads that you see. You know, if you’re watching Fubo or you’re watching, you know, Amazon like that, that’s connected TV. So anything that’s, you know, you’re actually watching on a connected device.

00:38:27:14 – 00:38:52:00
Scott Desgrosseilliers
Those are the ads that you see there. So that’s something that we’re now rolling in. And like part two of this case study is going to be how connected TV is now getting them even lower cost to acquire a customer. Here’s the here’s my Tik-Tok. Yeah. TikTok’s you know, I don’t we haven’t even regularly lawyers that are going to just say, here’s some content, I love this hair product or I love this premium product page.

00:38:52:02 – 00:39:17:05
Scott Desgrosseilliers
If they did that and it was just video and it’s like, hey, go use my code, which they may or may not use when they go there. That’s normally, challenging to track, but make taking this macro approach, the click data is just the directional. And then you guys are, you know, executing it flawlessly here. It’s awesome to say, well, I think you’re going to like this slide right here though to your point, you can actually start to see the changes here.

00:39:17:05 – 00:39:38:07
Ralph Burns
And this is inside, you know, this platform here at all. I don’t know if you know anything about these guys. Well, yeah. So soon to be updated the platform. Scott. So this is when we first started working with them in and around, like I said, like, late, spring, early summertime. So this is comparing. I wish this was over there.

00:39:38:09 – 00:40:09:05
Scott Desgrosseilliers
You guys can change that sometime. Anyway, this is comparing May to October and then versus November to today. As a matter of fact. So what we are looking here, we’re looking inside wicked reports inside. What the hell is this one calls command central mission control. Mission control, new customer value. We see this is comparing the two so we can see our costs have increased, but our revenue is increased.

00:40:09:07 – 00:40:35:03
Ralph Burns
Okay, 44% cost. Obviously, our ad spend has increased. We have scaled up quite a bit. Like in present day, our Ncac has come down. Now it’s down to new cost to acquire new customers. 109 I said it was under 120. And this is to basically yesterday. So this isn’t even counting like I. To be more fair, I should probably show this like from 30 days ago where the new customer ratios are up 40%.

00:40:35:03 – 00:41:02:00
Scott Desgrosseilliers
My old eyeballs here, new customers are up 42%. And then what’s your Ncac is down? Down three. Then it and then the revenue is up. How much? 40 revenue is up 44%. And what’s the cost? Of all the all the bejesus out of it over to the left there. Yeah, I mean that’s oh you can’t see it. That’s what you’re.

00:41:02:02 – 00:41:19:17
Ralph Burns
This is just an orgy of good news. Right. So costs are up 37%. However, a new customer. Yeah. To acquire cost. Customer acquiring a customer is up. Yeah, but then costs down. That’s the whole point when you would want you want cost to go as high as you possibly can because you’re making a lot of this is $1,000 products.

00:41:19:17 – 00:41:43:22
Scott Desgrosseilliers
They’re making 9 to 1. Yeah. 9 to 1. I need to get into premium. So far so good. Yeah. Anyway, I love this fabulous product. And great era client of ours. So this is one of the things that and so I’d look at reports that you can actually see, you can see this is part of our this is, this is why we need a programmatic like a native advertising little.

00:41:43:23 – 00:42:02:18
Ralph Burns
Yeah. It’s under other which stinks for now. That’s that’ll be changing now that we see how good it’s going with other channels, as an other channel becomes prominent enough, it earns a seat at the channel table. I see. So if we just clicked into the other channel, this is the reason why we need a connected TV. We need it to blow.

00:42:02:18 – 00:42:23:01
Scott Desgrosseilliers
We need all these other channels anyway. We even see their direct mail like they do direct mail. These guys are like a marketing machine and we now can even track that inside. Yeah, but you can see connected TV, which we just started adding in and started spending on, which is now incrementally like adding to the result here.

00:42:23:02 – 00:42:44:10
Ralph Burns
But these are all the native ads. These are the native ads down here. So you can go into the individual channels and you can see like this is up to present day. This is a preview of, you know, part two of the case study. But anyway, the point is this is that you can go into the individual channels here and see exactly what the activity here and everything here is looking up now costs down here.

00:42:44:10 – 00:43:12:10
Scott Desgrosseilliers
Google ads is down, of course, which is what we want. YouTube spend is up, influencers is up. Facebook obviously meta is up, Amazon spend down dramatically. But all of these are combining together. We even see the AI assistance line here which is fantastic is a new feature set. Wicked pretty cool. Like this is the number that we really want which is the top line Mur.

00:43:12:10 – 00:43:28:16
Ralph Burns
This is blended Row. As I wish you guys would actually change this to, no change in the ugliest name. Yeah, change it right there. Yeah. All right, we’re. There you go. Look at that. I can just apply change to the same thing. Yeah, it’s the same thing. So it’s blended mirror, which is basically all of the channels together.

00:43:28:16 – 00:43:57:06
Scott Desgrosseilliers
How much are you spending? How much are you getting back in revenue? And it also includes, of course, your, text SMS measures email here. Last click email obviously. And then organic. Where’s your organic hair? I guess that’d be on a different channel. Down. Maybe you have you probably don’t show or yet go into the filters and include organic.

00:43:57:06 – 00:44:27:01
Ralph Burns
A lot of people don’t want to see organic. So you’ll actually have even more revenue. All right. So we’ve now sorted all these columns where we now include organic. Hopefully there’s your organic down there. So we’ve gotten 364 clicks. Organic searches oddly enough have increased 122%. Yeah. Our total sales have increased 176%, and our revenue has increased 128%.

00:44:27:03 – 00:44:53:20
Scott Desgrosseilliers
Now, we know that that or those organic sales, as well as the Amazon sales, as well as the Google Ads sales are coming from top of funnel from here, from our programmatic native connected TV, from Facebook, from meta platforms, probably from influencers and affiliates, to a certain degree from YouTube ads as well, maybe even less so on the Microsoft ads.

00:44:53:20 – 00:45:23:18
Ralph Burns
You can see we’ve increased TikTok dramatically here. It’s definitely a channel that we want to explore. The point is this is that you’re getting organic sales down here that came from that top of funnel spend. And as a result of that, all of the channels working together. Now that we’ve added in organic the media efficiency ratio, or I put $1 in, how many dollars do I make out on all of my media equals $1 in $9.74 comes back out.

00:45:23:18 – 00:45:53:03
Scott Desgrosseilliers
And that’s what this metric right here shows. And you can sort of see over time exactly how this has worked, since the time where we made a lot of the dramatic changes. As I said, this is the time stop that we’re using here is basically November 1st when we added in more meta, spend more YouTube, spend more native spend, and flipped the script on bottom of funnel versus top of funnel.

00:45:53:05 – 00:46:33:01
Ralph Burns
And the changes just continue to move in the right direction here. So this has been a really valuable recording. All right. So the principles that we’ve talked about here, on today’s show is what this means for every direct to consumer brand that’s spending at least $50,000 a month, like Scott, like what? What does this mean? Like, what are the action steps if you’re a director of marketing, a marketing manager, how do you apply this to your business, especially if you’re DTC and you’re whether you have a, you know, CPG product or whether you have a high end e-commerce brand or whether you have a service brand or whether you have the software like Horowitz,

00:46:33:03 – 00:46:51:05
Scott Desgrosseilliers
about it doesn’t matter. It applies to all of them, is first, get aligned on your overall goal, your marketing, and then measure what is that current overall goal doing with a source of truth? It could be many options. Once you have that, determine where you’re trying to get to.

00:46:51:05 – 00:47:01:19
Ralph Burns
When you have the source of truth and you’re aligned on where your your overall goal is, the strategy and the tactics that you take have to support that.

00:47:01:21 – 00:47:24:03
Scott Desgrosseilliers
And they never end up meaning go spend more because Facebook’s retargeting Roas looks good inside of Facebook. It’s just never the case because that’s not aligned with your overall goal. All of the platforms are doing their own homework, their grading, their own homework. Yeah, and everyone’s giving themself an A-plus. And I mean, we know that’s not the case.

00:47:24:13 – 00:47:42:19
Ralph Burns
And so your job is to get A to B, you have to get aligned on the right strategy first and then you’ve got to use you got to get a source of truth that you trust and will act on. But use that source of truth effectively. Don’t go then use it. Just like just go and say, oh, they’re going to measure it perfectly based on that overall multi-touch.

00:47:42:19 – 00:48:04:16
Scott Desgrosseilliers
And I’m going to use that, use that as my guidance, because then you’d still spend on brand and Amazon, because those are always performing the best based on any click based only model. Right. What you gotta do is use the right either attribution when we get you into tactics, but you got to use things that move your spend in a way that moves your overall North Star metric in the direction you want to go.

00:48:04:18 – 00:48:08:00
Ralph Burns
And if it’s and that’s not happening, you’ve got to change your approach.

00:48:08:00 – 00:48:16:11
Scott Desgrosseilliers
Yeah, I would say this is the biggest challenge with brands right now that have a performance marketing mindset is

00:48:16:11 – 00:48:28:16
Ralph Burns
that there is a certain part to this where there is a bit of an unknown like we were talking about before with their sweet and wicked reports, we track the click.

00:48:28:18 – 00:48:48:09
Scott Desgrosseilliers
However, what you need to understand is that if you have an impression without a click, how do you read into your secondary metrics to know that you’re going to make the right decisions to shift, allocate, spend from the bottom of funnel channels to the top of funnel channels. So you use a tool like Wicked Reports to give insights to that.

00:48:48:09 – 00:49:11:03
Ralph Burns
But then there’s a certain amount of strategy and understanding of the brand and really understanding what are the other metrics that I can view that will give me better insights so I can make these big changes? So like if you’re cutting an Amazon spend by 91%, you better know what you’re doing. And the only way to have that is to have really good click data.

00:49:11:05 – 00:49:32:17
Scott Desgrosseilliers
And when you see Amazon revenue going up 33% like we did in this case, like sometimes your best channels, like your best channels, the ones that are reporting the best numbers might actually be your biggest problem in a lot of cases. And those are the ones that you should look at as the ones that you should really think about.

00:49:32:17 – 00:49:58:00
Ralph Burns
What strategically can I do in order to change the result? Knowing what the result is? The result here is growth and lower impact and increase, media efficiency ratio. And the working channels that, being able to look at all the individual channels that you’re working. I’m not just talking about your paid media channels. We’re also talking about your organic channels, as we saw on our screen share here today.

00:49:58:02 – 00:50:21:04
Scott Desgrosseilliers
Are they actually just harvesting demand that’s created elsewhere? And you really have to ask yourself that question, where can I spend or where can I spend my time or my resources? Everyone has limited resources in order to create the results that you’re ultimately looking for, which is in this case, lots of new customers, better media efficiency ratio, and lower cost to acquire those customers.

00:50:21:04 – 00:50:41:00
Ralph Burns
Amen. That’s a perfect close. Well, obviously, Scott, I’m not even going to say your name, but I am going to say you need to grow. Oh, where can people find you as the confessed co-host today? If you can find me in Marblehead, Massachusetts.

00:50:41:02 – 00:50:59:04
Scott Desgrosseilliers
This is a lovely spot. So I actually I’m over in Salem today. Morgan. Salem, mass. In my office. If you can find me a wicked sports.com, that’s best. I’m also pretty active on LinkedIn. Wicked reports. Scott should track me down, and, that’s where I’m at. Why don’t you just get wicked, Scott on all your handles? Like that’s the best?

00:50:59:04 – 00:51:28:02
Ralph Burns
No. Ever. No. There might be a good Instagram personal, but I don’t have Instagram personal. Actually I should. Yeah. And also my search for wicked stuff on here. All right, we will leave links in the show notes for everything that we talked about here today. Obviously a lot of this is blurred out. So I can’t give you all the details here, but I think, you know, understanding the concepts like how you actually, you know, scratch that itch and it’s an itch that’s very, very prevalent.

00:51:28:02 – 00:51:51:04
Scott Desgrosseilliers
A lot of businesses, when you increase ad spend and you get worse results, that’s really what this whole thing is about. And thankfully, we were able to remedy the problems that this client had, which was five missed forecasts. And then we just shifted budget with deep insights. And all of a sudden they’re on a growth trajectory. Just, absolutely amazing.

00:51:51:04 – 00:52:17:15
Ralph Burns
So always helps to have a great product. They’ve got a great product too, obviously. But, everything together is really working, to, to achieve the goals of the client. So anyway, we’ll leave links in the show notes over at Perpetual traffic.com. Make sure that you do check out the video on perpetual traffic.com/youtube on behalf of my incredibly, smart, wicked smart, guest host today, wicked Scott.

00:52:17:19 – 00:52:27:06
Ralph Burns
Till next show. See ya. See ya.

Episode 791: 5 Missed Forecasts. Then One Budget Shift. Then 4 Straight Hits.

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5 Missed Forecasts. Then One Budget Shift. Then 4 Straight Hits.

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