Are you drowning your leads with follow-up after follow-up? It’s a mistake many service-based businesses make, thinking more is better. But in reality, too much follow-up could be killing your sales instead of helping them.
In today’s episode, we dive into a common problem many health and wellness businesses face: low conversion rates after generating quality leads. Lauren shares an in-depth example from one of her clients who was generating tons of leads but only achieving a 5% booking rate. We explore why this happens and how you can fix it.
From the crucial need for accurate data tracking to the importance of defining a “qualified lead,” we outline the tweaks to your sales funnel that will boost lead conversions and significantly reduce your marketing spend.
In this episode:
03:01 Case study of high leads and low conversion rates
07:06 Sample lead qualification and conversion framework
17:59 Estimating the value of opt-ins
21:45 The correct sequence of contacting leads
27:25 Episode wrap-up and call-to-action
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- LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurenpetrullo
- Consult Mongoose Media – https://mongoosemedia.us/
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READ THE TRANSCRIPT:
The Singular Fatal Mistake Service Businesses Make with Opt-Ins, MQLs & SQLs
00:00:00:00 – 00:00:09:17
Ralph
Everyone’s like, oh, well, if I got somebody to opt in to my lead magnet, that’s a lead. It’s not. No, this is a real problem for a lot of service based businesses.
00:00:09:18 – 00:00:21:12
Lauren
So these are all the different things and all the different data points that you should have on your website. I’m sharing screen now of data that is mission critical to better optimization.
00:00:21:14 – 00:00:32:23
Ralph
Hello and welcome to the Perpetual Traffic Podcast. This is your host, Ralph Burns, founder and CEO of tier 11. Alongside my Flower in Hair, South American co-host.
00:00:33:01 – 00:00:41:23
Lauren
Lauren E piccolo, founder of Mongoose Media. Like, I’m neither South American nor is this a flower in my hair. It’s a microphone on my glasses.
00:00:42:01 – 00:01:05:01
Ralph
Well, for those of you who are listening, you’re going to have to go over to the YouTube channel to see Lauren’s brand new mic, which essentially looks like because her pixel here, her video is so pixelated because she’s in Medellin, Colombia right now that you know the Wi-Fi is any better there than it is here, where it is, is like, it looks like you actually have flowering hair from what I can see.
00:01:05:01 – 00:01:15:00
Ralph
But, so we are going to power through this today with your microphone and or the flower that just so happens to be a mic.
00:01:15:02 – 00:01:20:03
Lauren
Because we’re going to talk to you on. So it looks like a flower. I look like I’m going to go salsa.
00:01:20:03 – 00:01:46:04
Ralph
This thing you absolutely do with the pink dress. It’s a good look. So. But today, we are going to get right into a down and dirty episode here, which I know if you are a brick and mortar business that books appointments for a service that you provide, like let’s say you are a local chiropractor, let’s say you’re a, you know, a hair salon for that matter.
00:01:46:04 – 00:02:16:08
Ralph
Yeah. In in this case, we’re talking about in the health and wellness space, both Lauren and Gerald Levin both have lots of clients in this space. Everyone seems to for like, put all the focus on the ad, when in fact it’s everything that’s after the ad, which is the stuff that really makes the biggest difference. Like especially with Andromeda, now you can get lots of leads, you can target the right type of customer, but what do you do with them when they actually come in?
00:02:16:10 – 00:02:42:18
Ralph
And a lot of businesses, at least in my experience, and having done this for ten years, is more follow up is better, you know, and what the common wisdom dictates, when in fact it’s actually the opposite in many cases, if you actually follow up too much and it’s not in alignment with your overall branding and what the ultimate goal is for your business, you might end up losing those leads and end up paying more to acquire a customer.
00:02:42:20 – 00:03:01:04
Ralph
Whereas you might be getting cheap leads that just don’t convert. So that’s what today’s episode is all about. And Lauren, you are the subject matter expert here today, so get right into exactly what it is with a flower in your hair. The problem that you found for a client of yours and how you guys are solving.
00:03:01:04 – 00:03:24:22
Lauren
It to jump into, like, the two long, most important pieces of this is, client. You know, they’re spending over $50,000 a month, so they’re generating, you know, anywhere between 20 and 70 qualified leads a day. All five being that they, are looking for assistance within the next seven days. Right. We want to go for those low hanging fruit.
00:03:25:00 – 00:03:52:08
Lauren
And so while we’re doing all this mass lead generation for various different offers, landing pages, phone calls, lead forum for a whole variety of ways that we’re getting people to opt in. We noticed that their conversion rate from becoming a lead into becoming a booked appointment was less than 5%, and that’s something that we need to address immediately.
00:03:52:08 – 00:04:10:14
Lauren
Right? Like you don’t want to have 5%, you want to at least 20% of the folks that are saying, I have pain right now to say I’m willing to do something about it right now, of course, we have information about them. This is us based. So we do know what their credit score is. We do know what their household income, their debt to income ratio.
00:04:10:14 – 00:04:25:11
Lauren
So we do have other qualifying factors like the assumed credit score. So if you’re listening and you’re doing this and you’re outside the United States, you likely have a lot of laws that will not allow you to do this. But there’s tons of software and lots of different options for you to get the monetary value of each lead.
00:04:25:11 – 00:04:43:23
Lauren
So when I’m talking about sales qualified leads, I’m talking about people that have enough discretionary income to invest in a high ticket medical service. So one of the first things we did when we noticed, like so much lead volume, so little conversion, especially after like so many other agencies and freelancers and vendors have worked on this account before.
00:04:44:01 – 00:05:05:00
Lauren
We went in and looked immediately to what type of data was being fed back into matter. So it’s really clear for us, like before you spend a dollar, you need to make sure that the destination you’re sending people to and the data you’re sending back in to the algorithm makes sense. And so when we started with the data back into the algorithm, we noticed that, there is no server side tracking being set up.
00:05:05:00 – 00:05:25:04
Lauren
There is no custom events there in health and wellness. Basically, you know that you have a lot of limitations. No custom conversion events, no monetary value amounts are being sent back in to denote a hierarchy of preference. What I mean that is someone is a sales qualified lead versus someone who’s booked an appointment. They are not created equal.
00:05:25:04 – 00:05:48:14
Lauren
Someone who has a sales qualified lead, who has a credit score and has the available income but did not book appointment is worse than someone with all that and did book appointments. So we had to make sure that we sent an assigned dollar value to each stage of their pipeline so that we can begin to not only send meta correct information, but then begin to optimize for what we actually want.
00:05:48:16 – 00:06:04:04
Lauren
So the first thing that we did, like I said, was look at the amount of data we were sending it. And Ralph, like within two days we were ten and 20, increasing the amount of data. Like if you look in events tool manager, it was like a like like a Nike swoosh in the right direction.
00:06:04:06 – 00:06:40:21
Ralph
Nice. So no service eye tracking, no custom events, no monetary value being assigned to the lead, no lead scoring. In essence, and even though you were entering in the qualifiers for income and a lot of other things, you were still getting a 5% booking ratio, which is incredibly low amounts. I’m I am, I guess you said 20%. I mean, geez, I would shoot for 40% plus for booking, but you have to make sure that you’re asking the right types of questions so that those people that are actually booking are qualified.
00:06:40:23 – 00:07:01:14
Ralph
So another example we’ve used before is we do a lot of work in the home improvement space, and one of the qualifiers is that they need to be a homeowner. It’s the knock out question. So every business has a knock out question. So understanding what that knock out question is making sure that is compulsory on that form is absolutely essential.
00:07:01:14 – 00:07:20:09
Ralph
I’m sure it sounds like there’s multiple fields on this form here. So there’s more than just that one qualifier. So let’s get into the visual of this. If we can hear and if you’re not watching over on our YouTube channel, I highly recommend that you do this because we’re going to do a little screen sharing here with a, not a lucid chart.
00:07:20:11 – 00:07:22:17
Ralph
One of these other charts and draw.
00:07:22:17 – 00:07:29:09
Lauren
That I oh, it’s free. It’s inside the Google platform. It’s the same place as you do Google Sheets and Google Docs. I love draw that. I oh.
00:07:29:11 – 00:07:46:20
Ralph
What? Why am I paying for lucid chart? That’s my real question. So draw Danielle shout out to them. But definitely check this out over a perpetual traffic ecom fort slash YouTube. So take us through, this whole sales funnel here and where you sort of saw the points of inflection and the areas in which to improve.
00:07:46:22 – 00:08:08:17
Lauren
Yeah. So what we have here is like, you know, whether you have people coming in organically or paid near you go to a landing page. And what we have is a lead form with at least one conditional question. Like you can see, we have standard events, we do custom conversions in GTM, all that stuff. But what I want to draw your attention is the most important thing, that when you have a conditional question, you use homeowner, do you own a house right now?
00:08:08:19 – 00:08:36:02
Lauren
If they do not and you do not have a no thank you page, you are just optimizing for a waste of time, right? You need a conditional question that leads to a no thank you page, to which you do not have any standard events, whether using complete registration, lead or whatever that event is that you’re sending back. You have it absent from that thank you page, because then you can build custom audiences using URL contains this one and build a negative lookalike audience as well.
00:08:36:02 – 00:08:49:01
Lauren
So it’s just additional ways where you’re saying, meta, anyone that makes this page we’re not saying is a lead versus we are in the thank you page, and then we are then building negative lookalike audiences. So that made us begins to know who we do not want.
00:08:49:03 – 00:09:22:12
Ralph
And most importantly, you’re building positive data that you’re piping back into meta in this case. And we must have talked about this at least 100 times. The data that you actually capture on your page is absolutely essential. We’ve talked about acquiring new customers, creating custom event specifically around that or returning customers. In this particular case, it is a sales qualified lead because they filled out that lead form with the other questions, but also most importantly filled out the conditional question, the most important question correctly.
00:09:22:12 – 00:09:29:11
Ralph
So they land on the right page, send that signal back to the algorithm so you find more of those people more quickly.
00:09:29:11 – 00:09:55:16
Lauren
Yeah. And now I’m just switching to a different draw. Yeah. So this is like latency. This is like what we do. These are my numbers I’m being hyper transparent. You can put whatever you want in them. But I talked about the importance of so remember it’s before you spend a dollar. It’s data and destinations. So we’re talking about the data right now where it’s here’s a dollar amount that we’re saying into at Mongoose Media, we use complete registration to denote someone who’s a subscriber.
00:09:55:18 – 00:10:23:08
Lauren
Because for us there’s a subscriber and then it will eat a subscriber is someone that is interested in what we have to say. A lead is someone who’s interested in what we have to sell. And then for us we say is sales qualified. Lead is someone that we’re interested in selling to. So I don’t use the lead standard event until and only when someone has given some significant sign that they are interested in what we have to sell that could be visiting service fees, signing up for discovery call, whatever that is.
00:10:23:08 – 00:10:31:14
Lauren
But in a just lead acquisition play, if you’re doing lead magnets or whatever that is, I use complete registration because they’re not leads me they’re subscribers.
00:10:31:16 – 00:10:56:18
Ralph
Yep. Yeah, I love that. And this is a categorization which I think has been bastardized over the course of the like the last ten years. Everyone’s like, oh, well, if I get somebody to opt in to my lead magnet, that’s a lead. It’s not. Sorry. That’s a subscriber. Very well. What I say is it’s an opt in. It’s not a marketing qualified lead.
00:10:56:18 – 00:11:16:14
Ralph
I mean it’s basically it’s all the same. So, you know, if your agency is saying, hey, look at all these leads that we’re getting you. And it’s really it’s no opt ins to your lead magnet which is erroneously labeled to begin with. Thank you. Ryan dice. You can say it. You could tell them I said that. The point is, this is that that doesn’t really matter now because you can’t sell to those people.
00:11:16:14 – 00:11:28:18
Ralph
I love the hierarchy of. All right, you’re either a subscriber. You’re either somebody that I can. You know, sell, and then somebody who’s interested in me selling to them, which is the ultimate goal, which is a sales qualified lead. Correct.
00:11:28:20 – 00:11:39:13
Lauren
So we like we say subscribers, if opt in, they want to hear what we have to sell. I say marketing qualified leads. They want to hear what we have to sell and then sales qualified leads. They’re people that we want to sell to.
00:11:39:15 – 00:11:40:11
Ralph
Yeah I love.
00:11:40:11 – 00:12:07:18
Lauren
It. So I have on the screen now is our pipeline path. So this is a perfect with my custom conversion. So if you see anything that’s highlighted purple and you’re watching that those are custom conversions. Everything else is a standard event. And when I’m talking about standard event I’m sharing screen. Now of developers. There’s 17 standard events. And so these are all the different things and all the different data points that you should have on your website that correspond to purchase starting trial, submit application view content.
00:12:08:00 – 00:12:18:00
Lauren
There’s a donation one like donate. If you have a nonprofit. All of this stuff is data that is mission critical to better optimization.
00:12:18:02 – 00:12:32:11
Ralph
Yeah, absolutely. And it’s handed to you anyway. You just it’s just a matter of figuring out what your hierarchy is in your business. In a service based business like this, you can use a multitude of these depending on where they are in your sales funnel.
00:12:32:13 – 00:12:47:01
Lauren
Now you could argue and say like, why do you use complete registration versus lead? Because in my pipeline path, I do have lead, but a lead is someone who has booked a call or not booked a call, or at least shown interest in booking a call. So we have a two step form. So you have to give your information and then you get access to the calendar.
00:12:47:06 – 00:13:10:14
Lauren
But I have complete registration because if we look back onto the screen I’m on the metas developers standard events. If you go down like you’ve 17 centered events, you also have object properties. And so with complete registration there’s an object property. It’s a boolean which means it’s binary. Yes or no, true or false. And you can do that to enhance a complete registration.
00:13:10:16 – 00:13:45:15
Lauren
And so if you’re looking at my pipeline path page view is the first event that triggers because your megapixels on every page. And I view content as the next or progressing from left to right from page view to purchase number one. Page view number two view content. They visited a page. That’s important to me. If we’re reading what meta describes as view content, they say a visit to a web page you care about for example, a product page or landing page view content tells you if someone visits a page’s URL but doesn’t tell them what they do on that page, right?
00:13:45:15 – 00:14:01:22
Lauren
So view content is something. Again, so many times we audit accounts is a neglected standard event that as soon as you do you get to tell me at this data, someone who’s visit a product display page versus someone who’s visited a privacy policy page, they’re different.
00:14:02:00 – 00:14:17:20
Ralph
Right? Makes sense. So they view content once again like that’s a PDF. It’s a product page. This in e-commerce language. But here it is the landing page. Landing page something of higher value than just a home page or a collection page or just.
00:14:17:21 – 00:14:35:14
Lauren
About us page. Important pages that denote a hierarchy of someone is better than a page view, which could be someone who is viewing your privacy policy, right? I don’t want to optimize for privacy policy viewers own. Ultimately for people looking at important pages.
00:14:35:16 – 00:15:02:17
Ralph
Right. And you mentioned an important one, though about us is a very important page. It’s one of the most viewed if you actually go into your Google Analytics and you go in the back and you’ll probably see that you’re About Us page is probably one of your most viewed page because they’re like, I am considering these people. I’ve probably visited the website and when we track leads, opt ins, and any other action, we usually we always look at where they come from.
00:15:02:17 – 00:15:15:00
Ralph
A lot of times it is the About Us page. You so because it’s almost like the last thing that they do before they click, they’re like, oh, these guys seem to know what they’re doing. Or maybe they don’t. Maybe they bounce off it. So that’s an important page.
00:15:15:02 – 00:15:32:11
Lauren
They’re important and you can have. Do you want a standard event that tells me that this is an important page to me. So then we got so we go page you view content. Then next I have complete registration. So I do this on the thank you page. So when we’re looking at on the screen we have a lead from Conditional Questions a thank you page.
00:15:32:11 – 00:15:54:04
Lauren
This event is lead. We use complete registration. But 99% of the world uses lead. That’s why you’re seeing it here. And then we don’t put that on the no thank you page. But in the pipeline path a complete registration for us. We say complete registration status equals false. And we say to meta, every person that submits is worth $0 US.
00:15:54:04 – 00:16:14:22
Lauren
These are our opt ins. These are our subscribers. And we’re saying meta. All of these options are worth $0 because their status is false and why they’re worth $0. Because until they’ve shown proof of life, which we have three ways that someone can show proof of life in our CRM one, they’ve answered a call. So we have our team that makes a calls us hi.
00:16:14:22 – 00:16:31:09
Lauren
Like nice to meet you. Wanted to confirm you signed up. What are you looking for? Are you a marketing doer or a marketing hire? Like what can we do to make 2026 even better? It’s starting a dialog so they show proof of life. If there’s a phone call they pick up, they leave a message, they return the call, they reply back with a text, whatever.
00:16:31:11 – 00:16:38:17
Lauren
Or in our follow up email and SMS sequences, they click or reply on one of those emails.
00:16:38:19 – 00:16:40:03
Ralph
Okay.
00:16:40:05 – 00:16:40:22
Lauren
So when I.
00:16:41:00 – 00:16:43:23
Ralph
Say they’re not a spam lead they’re actually engaging.
00:16:43:23 – 00:17:07:20
Lauren
Always. It depends. Disclaimers there’s bots and stuff. This is an imperfect world. But like let’s assume. Yes. When we’ve got proof of life they’ve replied they’ve clicked, they’ve engaged the dialog. Now we’ve changed their complete registration status from false to true. And we say meta. Hey everyone that’s an active subscriber is worth $3 to us. And this tells them meta, do not get any more of these $0.
00:17:07:21 – 00:17:14:19
Lauren
Fine. Me more of these proof of lifers because there were $3 to me of it.
00:17:14:21 – 00:17:17:22
Ralph
All right. So next step after that.
00:17:18:00 – 00:17:35:20
Lauren
So then like then we have some other like custom conversion that we have to consume to be blooming us in our pipeline. But if you look underneath this perfect no custom conversions page view view content, complete registration. Then there’s lead. So complete registration as a subscriber that says I’m a person, what you have to say and then a lead is I’m interesting what you have to sell.
00:17:35:20 – 00:17:59:23
Lauren
So this could be someone who signs up or like says I’m interested in a discovery call or is engaging with us and says, I’m looking to hire for services so we can manually or automatically update them from being in opt in to being a lead. And we then tell them to like, yeah, leads are worth $40.
00:18:00:01 – 00:18:12:15
Ralph
And that number comes from where? And this is a this is a mongoose example I’m I am yeah. Okay. So in the case of our homes,
00:18:12:17 – 00:18:13:22
Lauren
The health and wellness.
00:18:14:00 – 00:18:28:09
Ralph
Yeah. In the case of our health and wellness client. Yes. What would the monitor. How do you backtrack. How do you figure that out for the the brick and mortar business that’s trying to get. Yeah. From that a great question.
00:18:28:09 – 00:18:48:19
Lauren
So the thing that’s fun is I never we like on board. We have to know what each value is in the pipeline. And the thing is we’ve yet to meet someone who already knows all the different stages of the pipeline. So a lot of the times we start with gut and we say, okay, how much are you currently paying per lead, per opt in, per appointment schedule?
00:18:48:19 – 00:19:12:22
Lauren
Because after lead is the appointment schedule lead. Some of that is interesting what you have to sell. Schedule the easy appointment schedule. But schedule is someone that actually put time on their calendar, right? So they put time on their calendar. So then we say, how much are you willing to pay per appointment schedule? Like say you have 1000 of them knowing that at least a third of them are going to like no show.
00:19:12:23 – 00:19:30:20
Lauren
Like you have to tell me in your gut, what do you think it’s worth? And then we actually go back and check and look at the last 90 days and six months worth of data, and then we do a year over year comparison and say, okay, cool, you didn’t spending $90,000 a month on ads. You generated 600 actual scheduled appointments.
00:19:30:20 – 00:20:00:21
Lauren
90,000. Divide by 600. You’re real. Your baseline value of a schedule call is X. So then that’s what you’re paying for it right now. So once we established like what are you paying. And then it’s like but what do you actually want it to be. Because it’s not the schedule. The schedule like is what you’re optimizing for. Most of the time, business owners and marketing leaders know the value of a purchase, right?
00:20:00:21 – 00:20:18:17
Lauren
Where they’re like, hey, I’m I’m super happy with the purchase all day long on my you’ll see that I have a dynamic value to whatever the purchase is, because they may sign a contract for 100,000. They may sign a contract for 40,000. It doesn’t matter like that’s based off of whatever the value of the contract is, but everyone should know the value of each purchase.
00:20:18:17 – 00:20:41:16
Lauren
Then you can say, how many schedules does it take to lead to a purchase? Okay. Then you you go backwards from that. And if you start with like take my numbers, you can see that there’s a progression. I have scheduling, I’m like $400. I will pay $400 all day to get people onto my sales team’s calendar. No problem whatsoever.
00:20:41:18 – 00:21:08:02
Lauren
And then where I have the next one after schedule is submit application. I say submit application is $2,400. Now I use that as a pipeline stage where we’ve sent them a proposal, they’ve schedule call, we’ve progressed the conversation. The sales team has said yes, it’s worth spending time to send them a custom proposal. Not everyone gets that. You get on a schedule call and maybe they’re not actually interested.
00:21:08:04 – 00:21:12:15
Lauren
So we have we use this add the wish list which is feature interest.
00:21:13:08 – 00:21:33:09
Lauren
So we’re not going to send them a proposal because they’re not ready for proposal. They have a future interest in potentially working with us. So then we say meet a schedule’s worth 400. Someone who shows feature interest and is qualified, they’re worth 500. And this stacks right. So the person who’s scheduled is 400. And then they get another $500 of monetary value to signal to matter.
00:21:33:11 – 00:21:36:02
Lauren
This lead has progressed in our pipeline.
00:21:36:04 – 00:21:55:14
Ralph
Makes sense. I know we’re going to get into this in a little bit more in depth in a future episode, probably about a week or so, because this is super interesting. I think people want to see this visually. So explain to me sort of in a broad overview what the sequence of contact looks like, because that’s sort of how we started today’s show.
00:21:55:16 – 00:22:14:01
Ralph
I think you came in with like 100 and some odd touch points, when in fact it was overkill and it was actually killing the sales process. So talk to that and then we can show in a second episode is that we’ll do a part two on this. We’re actually go through it and show you exactly how this stuff.
00:22:14:01 – 00:22:16:08
Ralph
Sure. Sort of tactically.
00:22:16:10 – 00:22:39:02
Lauren
So I’ll, I’ll keep on my screen to something that like, can be helpful, at least in knowing, like when we start the comms. But when we came in, when we were looking at all the leads that we were generating, all of the people that showed interest, we saw that they were getting at sometimes nine plus messages in a 72 hour period.
00:22:39:02 – 00:23:01:11
Lauren
I’m not saying emails, phone and messages. Come on. I’m seeing nine text messages, dozens of emails over the course of a seven day period. But nine text messages in three days, plus 200 phone calls like it became abusive. And now when we looked at where the leads were coming in, there was a trigger point where it’s like, okay, great, they’ve come in, it triggers this workflow.
00:23:01:11 – 00:23:23:01
Lauren
But the challenge was that this client has had dozens of agencies, tons of different vendors, many freelancers that come in and they’ve created all these different flows that at the their system was at the end of a workflow. They had a trigger at the very, very end. So when you have a workflow lead comes in, you should always have the trigger of the workflow.
00:23:23:01 – 00:23:45:21
Lauren
At the top. They had lead comes in, here’s the information. And then at the end they trigger another flow. And so what that ended up taking was hours of looking at the bottom of every single workflow. And we were finding that leads were getting opted in, not opted in. We’re getting added to multiple different chains of workflows because of how they didn’t work.
00:23:45:21 – 00:24:23:14
Lauren
No one talk to each other, and that’s how we were seeing leads getting communication in the wrong language. We saw leads getting ghosted and getting absolutely no communication because then there were workflows that combated each other. It was a case of, I want to make this look super clean, but I’m going to make 104 folders on this. And it was a like, if anyone ever builds any type of workflows for after the click after the submission, dear God, please have the triggers be at the start of every workflow, and your trigger should end by adding a tag or adding something that another workflow might trigger.
00:24:23:19 – 00:24:27:14
Lauren
But you do not trigger inside a workflow. Another trigger.
00:24:27:16 – 00:24:53:11
Ralph
This is such a common problem, and I knew we’re going to shoot a show like a before and after in the next part. Yes. But yeah, this is like this is a case study of oh yeah, I’ve had multiple people in my back, like in my HubSpot or whatever. Your back end CRM, I think it’s so high level in this particular case, creating new flows like, hey, we’re going to add new flows to it, where then that’s like the selling point.
00:24:53:13 – 00:25:14:03
Ralph
But the point is, is less is actually more, especially if you’re missing some you’re disqualifying some you’re you’re allowing some to get in that don’t have any follow up. Like it’s just a big mess. Like this is a real problem for a lot of service based businesses is it’s not even like lack of follow up. It’s almost like too much follow up in some cases because you.
00:25:14:03 – 00:25:14:18
Lauren
Have like.
00:25:14:21 – 00:25:16:01
Ralph
Yeah, multiple.
00:25:16:01 – 00:25:28:10
Lauren
You’re setting in nine tracks messages from Friday at 9 p.m. through Sunday at 3 a.m.. Like that’s there’s no way I’m going to want to engage with your business. These now it feels like you’re desperate for talking to me.
00:25:28:15 – 00:25:34:04
Ralph
Or like you’re overly automated and it’s all like boilerplate crap on SMS or.
00:25:34:09 – 00:25:35:11
Lauren
Personalization.
00:25:35:11 – 00:25:38:04
Ralph
Lack of personalization, which is killer. Yeah.
00:25:38:07 – 00:25:51:14
Lauren
And so then that was like what we had gone in as we cleaned it up. And part of that in our on it was like what I was just showing on the screen is like, we look at every single person when they come in, we ask one main question first, which is what is their relationship to our CRM.
00:25:51:20 – 00:26:15:22
Lauren
And so then we see like, are they brand spanking new? Do we understand, have they ever unsubscribed from us before? Is this someone that’s already signed up for this exact same asset? Did they ever were they a customer? And they’re re signing up again like we we need to ask those questions before we send a single message, because I don’t want to send an existing customer a welcome flow as if they’re a stranger.
00:26:16:00 – 00:26:34:04
Lauren
And I don’t want to send someone who’s opted out before a cold message versus like, hey, it’s great to see you again, like those individuals that previously opted out. And then re opt in, you can have automations that signals your sales. This is a hyper qualified person. They’re coming back in. They already have brand familiarity and brand trust with you that the re opting in.
00:26:34:06 – 00:26:50:14
Lauren
And yeah. So in that discovery we found that workflow after workflow after workflow was triggering. And and so people who are either getting zero communications or they’re getting an abuse of amount of communications without a single level of personalization or relevance.
00:26:50:16 – 00:26:57:11
Ralph
Well, the point is, is that you cleaned it up and all of a sudden it’s what you’ve done. The results in a very short period of time. Is that what we’re saying?
00:26:57:11 – 00:26:59:17
Lauren
Let’s say five x. Is there.
00:26:59:18 – 00:27:00:12
Ralph
Five x.
00:27:00:12 – 00:27:01:01
Lauren
All right.
00:27:01:03 – 00:27:03:12
Ralph
Over inflating. There you go. Just like a month.
00:27:03:14 – 00:27:21:14
Lauren
I was like there’s moments where it’s ten x because it depends on the different echo’s sense. But it was an immediate five x pick up because what happens after the clicks are what’s the destination of your ads has such an impact on the the success of your ads. And a lot of the times we were like, Tambor, go ahead.
00:27:21:16 – 00:27:44:23
Ralph
I’ll take a 1.5 x increase, let alone A5X. So all right so we’re going to do a part two of this. And at least this is some food for thought for you. Especially if you’re in a service based business or you rely on an interaction of a human in order to close the sale. Obviously agencies are. This is especially great for and I know lots of agencies are listening that probably have an overabundance of follow ups.
00:27:45:01 – 00:28:11:12
Ralph
Hint, hint, for a lot of you out there from maybe even ourselves included here on tour 11, the point is this is that this is a critical piece to everything in marketing right now, not related to all the other stuff that we’ve been talking about for the last 12 months. Meta. Andromeda, this is everything. Afterwards, we’re sort of assuming that you’re going to optimize for that, but this is the stuff that actually really does matter and gets the sales qualified leads and ultimately leads to the growth of your business.
00:28:11:13 – 00:28:28:21
Ralph
And we’ll continue this with part two. So, wherever you listen to podcasts, make sure that you do leave us a rating and review or start to get more reviews over on Spotify. We do. We love that. Yay! Up to like 198 so far. So for those of you who have left us a rating, we are especially grateful.
00:28:28:21 – 00:28:33:19
Ralph
So on behalf of my amazing co-host, Lauren E Petrillo.
00:28:33:20 – 00:28:35:19
Lauren
So I was going to say yes.
00:28:35:21 – 00:28:37:15
Ralph
So next, when is this.
00:28:37:17 – 00:28:38:16
Lauren
Okay?
