Do you often feel like your conversations aren’t going anywhere? Or that you’re not connecting as deeply as you’d like? It turns out, most of us are missing a key ingredient in our communication: asking the right questions.
In today’s episode, we share a part of the conversation we had with Charles Duhigg on becoming a supercommunicator. Charles reveals why traditional conversations fail and what you can do differently to spark real engagement. He explains how asking the right questions can shift a conversation from shallow small talk to deep, emotionally resonant discussions.
Want to know how to break through the surface level and start having real conversations? Tune in for practical examples of how to ask deep questions that invite others to open up and share their honest thoughts and feelings.
In this episode you’ll learn:
- How to ask deep questions that drive real connection
- The psychology of persuasion and trust-building
- Why most “practical” conversations fail to persuade people
- How emotional conversations impact decision-making
- How to use empathy to lead tough conversations
- The role of vulnerability in creating strong relationships
- Tips for switching from a practical to an emotional conversation
- The secret to making your customers feel heard and understood
Mentioned in the Episode:
- Charles’ Book, Supercommunicators: How to Unlock the Secret Language of Connection: https://amzn.to/3Xj0ioW
- Charles’ Book, The Power of Habit: Why We Do What We Do in Life and Business: https://amzn.to/4adpO6o
- Listen to the Full Episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7yot6sWy34
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Connect with Charles Duhigg:
- Website: https://charlesduhigg.com/
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charlesduhigg/
Connect with Ralph Burns:
- LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/ralphburns
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READ THE TRANSCRIPT:
How to Become a Supercommunicator (Ask These Questions)
00:00:00:00 – 00:00:05:01
Charles Duhigg
when you are having a discussion, you’re having multiple different kinds of conversations,
00:00:05:01 – 00:00:06:10
Charles Duhigg
most of them fall into one of three buckets.
00:00:06:11 – 00:00:07:02
Charles Duhigg
practical, we’re
00:00:07:02 – 00:00:08:18
Charles Duhigg
solving problems or making plans,
00:00:08:18 – 00:00:09:10
Charles Duhigg
emotional.
00:00:09:10 – 00:00:13:01
Charles Duhigg
In which case I don’t want you to solve my emotions. I want you to empathize.
00:00:13:01 – 00:00:15:15
Charles Duhigg
one of the things that we know from studies of psychology
00:00:15:15 – 00:00:17:06
Charles Duhigg
people who are really good communicators,
00:00:17:06 – 00:00:17:21
Charles Duhigg
they ask
00:00:20:02 – 00:00:45:14
Charles Duhigg
maybe explain sort of the concept behind super communicators and sort of how you got to this point. So you’re exactly right. I mean, I obviously the folks who are listening to this are probably super communicators. They’re professional communicators, right? You know, people who communicate for a living, even if you’re just an executive in a company that has nothing to do with marketing and has nothing to do with with the internet, you’re still really a communication professional because you’re communicating through your direct reports.
00:00:45:14 – 00:01:10:15
Charles Duhigg
You’re trying to help people share a vision. And what’s interesting is we are living right now through the golden age of understanding communication like never before. Because of advances in neural imaging and data collection, we can see what’s happening inside people’s brains and inside their bodies as they’re having a conversation. And that’s been sort of transformative, because one of the big insights is that until now, we kind of assumed that people knew what they were talking about when they were having a conversation.
00:01:10:15 – 00:01:18:16
Charles Duhigg
Right. We’re having a conversation about marketing or having a conversation about where to go on vacation next week or the budget for next quarter. But actually, what researchers have found is that
00:01:18:16 – 00:01:27:00
Charles Duhigg
when you are having a discussion, you’re having multiple different kinds of conversations, and some of the conversations that most of them fall into one of three buckets.
00:01:27:00 – 00:01:39:21
Charles Duhigg
Most of them are either practical, we’re talking about solving problems or making plans, or they’re emotional. In which case I don’t want you to solve my emotions. I want you to empathize. Or they’re social, which is about how we relate to each other and laughing.
00:01:40:17 – 00:01:44:20
Lauren
Like every conversation is emotional. This month, it’s November.
00:01:44:22 – 00:02:03:05
Charles Duhigg
We’ve had quite a few of those. Yeah, yeah, it’s November is over. And then you come out of Thanksgiving and you’re you’re like, what the like? I just get to hold my breath for a little couple of weeks before I have to have another round of really, really awkward conversations. But so understanding what kind of conversation is occurring and matching the other person or inviting them to match you, that’s really powerful.
00:02:03:05 – 00:02:21:09
Charles Duhigg
And then the third type is the resourceful social side. Yeah, yeah. Which is about like how we relate to each other, how we relate to society, the identities that are important to us. A lot of the conversations with our family where we say, like, you’re not giving them the respect I deserve because you’re trying to be the parent, even though I’m your kid.
00:02:21:09 – 00:02:44:02
Charles Duhigg
Who’s that? You know, in my 40s or crazy uncle Gary, when crazy Uncle Gary is like, everyone thinks I’m crazy, but I think lizard people run the government. Like, those are oftentimes identity conversations, social conversations. And, and once we understand that, it’s a, they’re a lot easier to have coming off Thanksgiving. And you did have that conversation with Uncle Gary or Uncle Bob, in my case, it’s true story.
00:02:44:03 – 00:03:06:08
Charles Duhigg
One of the best passages from the book was just sort of pull this one out is the where wherever you stand on this in your ideology, your political beliefs doesn’t matter. The point is this is that the example that you use in this book, which is counterintuitive, it’s almost like and I think you’ve even mentioned this is like Jedi mind tricks, but actually not manipulative in this way.
00:03:06:08 – 00:03:30:03
Charles Duhigg
Is that like, there’s a great deal of people right now which are highly relevant in the fact that they’re suspect of vaccines? And I actually just read in Massachusetts, of all places, like the bluest of blue states, maybe the exception of California, where you live, is there 10% of people are reluctant or have questions or are not going to give their kids vaccine.
00:03:30:03 – 00:03:46:23
Charles Duhigg
So it’s a divisive issue. And you actually talk about this like how, I believe it was a pediatrician, maybe an internist. Yeah. How they talk about this. Maybe I could just sort of talk about that. I thought a little transformative. I was like, I had to listen to it 2 or 3 times because in preparation for Thanksgiving this week.
00:03:47:01 – 00:04:05:10
Charles Duhigg
Yeah. No, it’s and it’s really interesting. And so, yeah, there was a bunch of experiments. It was done at the beginning of Covid to try and figure out, because there’s a lot of people who are vaccine skeptical. That doesn’t mean that they’re like anti-vaxxers, but it means that they they have questions and they’re concerned and they might choose not to get their kids vaccinated for all kinds of things or get vaccinated themselves.
00:04:05:10 – 00:04:28:06
Charles Duhigg
And what’s interesting is that when doctors at the beginning of the pandemic, when the vaccine first came out, and even before then, when doctors had conversations with these patients who were vaccine skeptical, they figured it was a practical conversation. They figured, this patient just needs to hear the evidence, right? If I tell them the science, if I give them the papers, and that almost never worked like it, you could never persuade someone.
00:04:28:06 – 00:04:48:10
Charles Duhigg
The vaccines are safe by giving them data. And what was happening there was that the physicians thought they were in a practical conversation. But for the patients, this was really emotional, right? They’re talking about I’m worried I’m going to put a poison in my kids. I’m worried that I can’t trust the government. And like, I look at the government and they lie about all these things, I think.
00:04:48:14 – 00:05:07:14
Charles Duhigg
And so why aren’t they lying about this? You’re just some like, you went to some fancy school and you have an MD, and I didn’t go to college. And I think you’re looking down on me. And so I’m going to be distrustful of you. Those are all emotional conversations. And so what the physicians realized was we can’t have a practical conversation until we match each other on this emotional level.
00:05:07:16 – 00:05:23:14
Charles Duhigg
And so oftentimes what doctors will do is they’ll say, tell me how you feel about vaccines. And they just give the person all the space in the world to bring up all their concerns. And they don’t say, no, that’s wrong. Or let me show you the study. They say, I understand exactly why you feel that way. Like I, I would feel exactly the same way.
00:05:23:14 – 00:05:39:00
Charles Duhigg
And I’ve and I’m worried about my kids the same way that you’re worried about your kids. And you’re right, like the government does. Let us put crap in our bodies. Right? There’s not enough, like, organic rules, whatever it is. So we’re going to get aligned on this emotional level. You’re going to you’re going to see that I’ve heard you and that that I’m someone who can empathize with you.
00:05:39:06 – 00:06:02:20
Charles Duhigg
And then I’m going to say something like, can I tell you why I decided to give my kids the vaccine? Right? Which is a way of asking, can we move from an emotional to a practical conversation? Can I totally surprise at this? Yeah. Personalized. Personalized. Yeah. Personalized. But but instead of having to to think about this on a purely emotional level, do I have your permission to move us into sort of the practical questions?
00:06:02:21 – 00:06:21:02
Charles Duhigg
And what they found is that works perfectly. That doesn’t mean every single person gets a vaccine, but it means at least they’re listening to what you have to say. They’re absorbing what the arguments you’re trying to make. And most most of the time they agree to get the shot. If if that’s the thing that you’re, you’re advocating for.
00:06:21:04 – 00:06:48:03
Charles Duhigg
And so a big part of this is recognizing when you’re talking about crazy Uncle Gary or when you’re talking about politics, the goal is not to convince the other person that you are right and they are wrong. The goal is not to convince them that you’re smart and that they should respect you or even like you. The goal is simply to understand how they see the world, to show them that you understand how they see the world, and then to speak in such a way that they can understand how you see the world.
00:06:48:08 – 00:07:16:11
Charles Duhigg
And if you do that, even if you walk away deciding you’re going to vote for different people, you don’t agree on who should be president, you are going to feel connected to each other. You’re going to feel a little bit closer to each other. And oftentimes that’s all that we need to coexist peacefully. The interesting part to that, and I was sort of expecting that when I reread it, read listen to it, I forget, which I did, at this point is there is no like closing question like, so what do you say?
00:07:16:13 – 00:07:36:07
Charles Duhigg
Right. There was not. Right. Yeah. No, there was there was not a call to action. Right. There’s not the closure question, which I had and I think this is different because like in advertising, we’re very explicit that we’re trying to convince someone of something, right, where we’re not necessarily in advertising, we’re not looking to have a conversation. We’re a dialog.
00:07:36:07 – 00:07:57:10
Charles Duhigg
We’re looking to kind of have a little bit of a monologue. Right? You my, my ad puffs up. But most of the conversations that happen in real life are conversations where they are dialogs. It. If there’s not a back and forth, then, then it’s really not a conversation. And one of the hallmarks of a good conversation is oftentimes it doesn’t end because you’ve gotten to the end of the conversation.
00:07:57:10 – 00:08:19:10
Charles Duhigg
It ends because you’ve run out of time. And so so you don’t have to have the final question or the killer closure, because oftentimes you feel so close that it’s easy for people to just kind of continue it, pick it up again. Yeah. What I find really interesting about this is that we’ve had another like I think of super communicators is a way of connecting.
00:08:19:10 – 00:08:41:15
Charles Duhigg
And I think there’s persuasion. There’s a there’s a persuasive part of this to a certain degree. We add another guest on here or in class. There is also a that he has written multiple books on this. And his last book was very similar to how you’re positioning this right now. And I think this is super important if you’re a manager, salesperson, marketer.
00:08:41:21 – 00:09:04:00
Charles Duhigg
I can also relate this to how marketing is actually done right now. Was this creative diversification thing that we’ve been talking about here for the Meta Andromeda update is that you make the subject the prospect, feel like it’s their idea. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And that that is what or in class says and flip the script. He’s like, you don’t sell them.
00:09:04:00 – 00:09:14:11
Charles Duhigg
You make them feel like they sold themselves. That’s exactly right. It’s exactly the same principle, which in it is exactly the same. And and so let’s talk about how to do that. Right. Because
00:09:14:11 – 00:09:21:19
Charles Duhigg
one of the things that we know from studies of psychology is that people who are really good communicators, consistent super communicators, they
00:09:21:19 – 00:09:23:14
Charles Duhigg
ask more questions than the average person.
00:09:23:15 – 00:09:44:15
Charles Duhigg
They ask like 10 to 20 times as many questions as the average person. And what’s interesting is that some of those questions are just invitations to kind of participate, right? Like, oh, what do you think about that? Or yeah, did you see that movie? But some of the questions are what are known within psychology as deep questions. And a deep question is something that asks me about my values or my beliefs or my experiences.
00:09:44:16 – 00:10:07:04
Charles Duhigg
And that can sound kind of intimidating, but it’s as simple as if you meet someone who’s a doctor instead of saying, oh, what hospital do you work at? You can ask them, oh, what made you decide to go to medical school? Right? That second question, that’s a super easy question to ask, but it’s a deep question because it invites the other person to tell you about their experiences to tell you about their values, what they enjoy about their work, why they want to be a healer, and then you’re having a real conversation.
00:10:07:09 – 00:10:28:13
Charles Duhigg
And once you’re having that real conversation, that’s when people are engaged and they start to sell themselves, right? Then you can ask the quite the deep question like, tell me, tell me what’s bugging you about your marketing right now. Like, what’s the thing that’s driving you crazy, right? And now they’re starting to describe their problem to you. And you say like, well, have you thought about have you thought about this solution that we’re experts in now?
00:10:28:13 – 00:10:49:14
Charles Duhigg
They’re convincing themselves that this is the right answer, and that’s so much more effective. And so we like to we like to work with and we like to buy from, and we like to sell to people who we like. And the way that we like people is through conversation, real conversation. And this this is the thing that I wish I had had a desk at this park that weekend.
00:10:49:20 – 00:11:05:19
Charles Duhigg
Was that because in the passage in the book, you say sell, shallow questions can become deep very quickly, just like what you said, you know, start off with, hey, where’d you go to medical school? Like, I know a lot of doctors. And then it’s like, sort of ends up there. Oh, I went to Harvard. Like. Oh, great.
00:11:05:19 – 00:11:20:13
Charles Duhigg
Well, I worked in and around the Harvard area for years and years, and then it’s like, then where do you go? Yeah, exactly. Whereas if you ask a why question or you say, oh, Harvard, how’d you like it? How did you like, how are you so close to people at Harvard? Like, is it still a big part of your life?
00:11:20:15 – 00:11:39:05
Charles Duhigg
Yeah, like those are real questions and they’re just as easy to ask, but they bring you to a real place. Cocktail party questions like are even more like, this is like, you know, you meet somebody and I tell you this before we hit record here today, it’s like, you know, where do you live? Can then all of a sudden you can ask a deeper question, which would be what?
00:11:39:05 – 00:11:52:07
Charles Duhigg
Then all of a sudden your deep like a great falls. Yeah. Like what do you like about the Heights. Like why, why did you decide to move to the Heights? Right. Oh, it’s because you move there. Because like, the community is so great. That’s that’s funny. I live in the valley for the same reason. Like. Like what? You know.
00:11:52:07 – 00:12:10:00
Charles Duhigg
Do you do you belong to a synagogue? Do you belong to church? Like there’s all these questions that like, give us an insight, a window into who this person really is. And the truth matter is, and we all know this. We love being asked real questions, right? Everybody loves being asked real questions. Nobody wants to have a boring conversation like, oh, you’re kids go to this school like kids go to that school.
00:12:10:04 – 00:12:29:01
Charles Duhigg
They want to be asked like, you know, when your kids are like they’re applying for college right now, is it driving you crazy? Because it’s driving me crazy, right? Like that’s a real conversation. Nobody really wants small talk. Like nobody wants surface conversations. Although I do know a couple of people who like surfacing conversations. But it’s interesting because there’s been a bunch of studies looking at this.
00:12:29:04 – 00:12:46:02
Charles Duhigg
So there’s something called the Fast Friends procedure. And what’s interesting about the fast rate, it’s a it’s it’s 36 questions that studies have shown. If people go back and forth asking these 36 questions and it takes about 45 minutes, they feel very, very close to each other, like so close that they’ll even if they don’t know each other’s names and they were strangers before.
00:12:46:02 – 00:13:06:19
Charles Duhigg
They’ll seek each other out to try and get together. Some people actually end up getting married after doing this, and there was a theory that you had to start pretty shallow and then get deep. And what they discovered was, that’s actually not true. That pretty much you can get deemed by the second or third question. So it’s weird if I come up to you and I ask, for instance, like, oh, just out of curiosity, when’s the last time you cried in front of another person?
00:13:06:19 – 00:13:20:05
Charles Duhigg
By the way, my name is Charles. Nice to meet you. Right. Yeah. That’s that’s not going to go over so well, but if I come up, ask you like I know. Right? Right. Yeah. What do you do for a living? Oh, I’m a doctor. Oh. Why did you decide to become a doctor? Oh, you know, because, like, I really wanted to be a healer.
00:13:20:05 – 00:13:39:02
Charles Duhigg
I imagine that’s tough. Like, do you find yourself, like, getting teary sometimes with with patients because you probably get attached to them. That’s three questions. And I’m basically asking you, when’s the last time you cried in front of yeah, but yeah, I should like the other. The nice thing about it is that if you’ll notice, each of those questions was posed as an invitation rather than a mandate.
00:13:39:04 – 00:13:59:09
Charles Duhigg
So instead of saying, tell me when you last cried, I’m saying, oh, what’s this like? And you could very well say, yeah, actually, like sometimes it’s really emotionally challenging. Or you could say, you know, I’m able to like, kind of leave my work at work and come home and like, I find it doesn’t. If they didn’t want to get deep with you, that’s totally fine.
00:13:59:09 – 00:14:27:07
Charles Duhigg
And they’ll let you know. The point is that, you know, you’re a super communicator. You know this tactic, you know how to do it, and you can invite people to get deep with you and they can choose to say yes or no. It’s so good. And, in a couple of your examples there, people go back and hit rewind here, they’ll actually hear you asking that first question, and then the deeper question then and then relating it back to yourself quickly, but not too much because otherwise if it’s a monologue in an interview.
00:14:27:08 – 00:14:45:04
Charles Duhigg
Right? That’s the nice thing about deep questions is that when you ask someone a deep question and they answer it, it’s very natural to answer your own question. So why do I become a doctor? Oh, my dad got sick when I was a kid, and I. And I wanted to be a healer. Oh, that’s funny, I’m a lawyer, and it’s because I saw my uncle get arrested, right?
00:14:45:06 – 00:15:02:21
Charles Duhigg
And now I can ask another deep question. You’re exactly right. We’ve all been at that party where someone asks us where we went on vacation and we realize about 30s into answering the question that they don’t care. They just want to tell us where they went on vacation. Yes. And and but that’s easy to avoid if we’re asking genuine questions that we’re really interested in.
00:15:03:01 – 00:15:25:22
Charles Duhigg
And deep questions almost always are genuinely interesting. So great quote I heard once. I’m going to butcher this, but it was the former prime minister of Britain that says, like, I went to the party and I met him as Disraeli, Benjamin Disraeli. He said the difference between him and every other prime minister I’ve ever met is that when I met the other prime ministers, I felt that they were the most important people in the world.
00:15:26:00 – 00:15:44:15
Charles Duhigg
Whereas when I met Disraeli, I felt like I was the most important person in the world. Yeah, yeah, Bill Clinton has that same capacity, right? Yeah. It’s just this, this guy. And actually and I’m going to say this as, as someone who’s not necessarily a fan of this person, but actually Donald Trump does too. Yeah. Like like when you’re we I’ve gone to a number of rallies.
00:15:44:15 – 00:16:02:06
Charles Duhigg
I’ve met him and been in the room and he meets other people. He kind of turns that laser beam on you and it feels special. Yeah, I noticed that about, like, George Bush, too, apparently. Yeah. And I’ve never met him, but, I mean, I could see what you’re saying. I was like, you know, it’s a reason why he’s where he’s at.
00:16:02:06 – 00:16:14:05
Charles Duhigg
It’s not just because of the outward appearance and there’s something else going on there. So if tactic one is ask more questions and ask deep questions, then tactic two is
00:16:14:08 – 00:16:22:20
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