Stop guessing what’s working! Grab your Marketing Performance Indicators™ checklist now: https://perpetualtraffic.com/mpi
Are you making six-figure ad spend decisions with incomplete data? If you can’t confidently explain which marketing channels are actually driving revenue, you’re probably wasting budget without realizing it.
In today’s episode, I’m reviewing a real case study from one of our discovery calls: a nine-year-old, $13 million premium home wellness brand selling $10,000 to $20,000 systems. Their nCAC had climbed to $2,800 in the US, nearly double what they’re paying in Canada, and most of their calls happen on the phone.
I’m breaking down exactly what’s driving that number up. I’ll also walk through what we’ll fix first, how we’ll shift budget without tanking revenue, and why 30 creatives a month is the new baseline.
If you want this kind of thing done for your business, head over to tiereleven.com/apply
What you’ll learn:
- How rising nCAC signals a scaling problem in Meta Ads and Google Ads
- Why high-ticket products require creative diversification to convert
- How offline conversion tracking improves attribution accuracy
- Why relying on Google demand capture eventually limits business growth
- The importance of matching landing pages with ad creative
- Why low-fi video ads often outperform polished brand commercials
- How to structure top, middle, and bottom-of-funnel creative strategy
- Why importing CRM and phone sales data strengthens ad optimization
- How dedicated landing pages improve high-consideration conversion rates
- The strategy for gradually shifting the budget from Google
Mentioned in the Episode:
Previous Episode with Scott Desgrosseilliers from Wicked Reports: https://perpetualtraffic.com/podcast/episode-791-5-missed-forecasts-then-one-budget-shift-then-4-straight-hits/
Examples of Facebook ads:
Tier 11’s Data Suite: https://www.tiereleven.com/what-we-do/data-suite
Partner With Tier 11’s Marketing Team: https://www.tiereleven.com/apply
Listen to Previous Perpetual Traffic Episodes: https://perpetualtraffic.com/
Wicked Reports Attribution Tool: https://www.wickedreports.com/
Listen to this episode on your favorite podcast channel:
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We appreciate your support!
Visit our website: https://perpetualtraffic.com/
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Connect with Ralph Burns:
- LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/ralphburns
- Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/ralphhburns/
- Hire Tier 11 – https://www.tiereleven.com/apply-now
Thanks so much for joining us this week. Want to subscribe to Perpetual Traffic?
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READ THE TRANSCRIPT:
They Were Spending $115K a Month Without Knowing What Worked
00:00:00:00 – 00:00:08:02
Ralph
Hey, if you’re spending six figures a month on ads and you still can’t tell exactly which dollar produced which sale, well, this episode is for you.
00:00:10:04 – 00:00:15:07
Ralph
Hello and welcome to the Virtual Traffic Podcast. This is your host Ralph Burns, founder and CEO of tier 11.
00:00:15:07 – 00:00:19:12
Ralph
Today we’re going to be talking through that problem as well as the solutions
00:00:19:12 – 00:00:22:21
Ralph
that, we proposed for this business.
00:00:22:23 – 00:00:35:11
Ralph
Give you a little bit of a background as to what this business is. It’s nine year old, premium home wellness brand name shall remain, nameless at this point in time, about $13 million in revenue,
00:00:35:11 – 00:00:39:21
Ralph
actually headquartered in Canada. They have markets in the US and Canada.
00:00:39:21 – 00:00:43:01
Ralph
They’ve got about a 12 to 14 person team.
00:00:43:01 – 00:00:44:22
Ralph
They do do a lot of their own marketing.
00:00:44:22 – 00:00:47:02
Ralph
They don’t have a performance team internally.
00:00:47:02 – 00:00:50:05
Ralph
Co-Founder personally handles all the creative direction,
00:00:50:05 – 00:00:55:06
Ralph
and the filming. So there is a lot of being done by the founders themselves.
00:00:55:06 – 00:00:56:02
Ralph
customer is a
00:00:56:02 – 00:01:00:00
Ralph
high average order value, high consideration B2C purchase,
00:01:00:00 – 00:01:07:04
Ralph
The average order value is anywhere between 10 and $20,000. So these are very premium pieces of equipment used outdoors.
00:01:07:04 – 00:01:11:23
Ralph
Like I said, the home wellness industry can’t say specifically exactly what it is. You might be able to sort of
00:01:11:23 – 00:01:13:06
Ralph
piece this together here,
00:01:13:06 – 00:01:13:17
Ralph
obviously a
00:01:13:17 – 00:01:21:22
Ralph
very high consideration purchase. They do have a B2B channel selling, to hospitality as well as to spa accounts as well.
00:01:22:00 – 00:01:28:02
Ralph
But we’re really going to be focusing in on today’s show is about their business to consumer market or B2C
00:01:28:02 – 00:01:28:17
Ralph
market.
00:01:28:17 – 00:01:32:07
Ralph
And they, are really struggling to scale.
00:01:32:07 – 00:01:34:14
Ralph
So a couple of different problems that they’ve had.
00:01:34:14 – 00:01:37:03
Ralph
First off, this is probably something that you’re experiencing right now,
00:01:37:03 – 00:01:40:06
Ralph
rising Ncac which is cost to acquire a new customer.
00:01:40:06 – 00:01:46:14
Ralph
If you’re not familiar with that term, we’ve done many, many, many shows here on marketing performance indicators.
00:01:46:14 – 00:01:50:23
Ralph
You can grab a copy of that marketing performance indicator checklist
00:01:50:23 – 00:01:57:08
Ralph
over at Perpetual traffic.com/mpi or tier 11.com/mpi.
00:01:57:08 – 00:02:05:19
Ralph
you can follow along with this here. But Ncac was a real problem. Cost to acquire a new customer for this type of business. This is a high consideration purchase.
00:02:05:19 – 00:02:06:21
Ralph
Like I said, this is
00:02:06:21 – 00:02:08:22
Ralph
an eight figure purchase. So
00:02:08:22 – 00:02:11:17
Ralph
Most of their customers are new customers.
00:02:11:17 – 00:02:16:02
Ralph
like some of the case studies that we’ve done here on this show, and you have a high consideration purchase
00:02:16:02 – 00:02:24:01
Ralph
something that’s over a we usually say an average order value of over $200 is sort of on the higher end as far as e-commerce is concerned.
00:02:24:01 – 00:02:27:17
Ralph
Anything from a thousand to multiple thousands.
00:02:27:17 – 00:02:33:01
Ralph
And we’ve talked on the show many times about those high AOF types of clients that we work with
00:02:33:01 – 00:02:34:00
Ralph
here at year 11.
00:02:34:00 – 00:02:38:20
Ralph
That needs a lot of consideration, that needs a lot of convincing in the news feed and
00:02:38:20 – 00:02:46:11
Ralph
and in the advertising before they actually click and go to the page, which is one of the most important things in today’s digital marketing landscape.
00:02:46:11 – 00:02:51:19
Ralph
like I said, many times, there’s a direct relationship or a direct correlation between
00:02:51:19 – 00:02:53:00
Ralph
price of your product
00:02:53:00 – 00:02:57:15
Ralph
and number of touches, number of impressions, number of
00:02:57:15 – 00:03:01:17
Ralph
ads, number of creatives that you need to put in front of
00:03:01:17 – 00:03:03:10
Ralph
your ideal customer
00:03:03:10 – 00:03:08:15
Ralph
in order for them to ultimately consider to buy your product and ultimately purchase.
00:03:08:15 – 00:03:14:01
Ralph
So an example of this that we’ve talked about here multiple times is
00:03:14:01 – 00:03:18:00
Ralph
we have a lot of clients that are in the beauty space that are under $100.
00:03:18:00 – 00:03:22:19
Ralph
For the average order value, you might need only ten or maybe 20 impressions or
00:03:22:19 – 00:03:24:00
Ralph
10 or 20,
00:03:24:00 – 00:03:29:02
Ralph
top of funnel or middle of the funnel ads in order to ultimately make the sale.
00:03:29:02 – 00:03:34:11
Ralph
But with a $4,000 hammock or a $25,000 outdoor kitchen,
00:03:34:11 – 00:03:41:17
Ralph
you might need dozens, if not 20, 30, 40 touches before they even consider clicking to your website.
00:03:41:17 – 00:03:42:13
Ralph
And a lot of cases,
00:03:42:13 – 00:03:45:20
Ralph
or even doing a Google search for your name or your product name.
00:03:45:20 – 00:03:48:03
Ralph
So that’s why it’s so important now
00:03:48:03 – 00:03:52:09
Ralph
to have great amounts of creatives, particularly video, especially if you’re
00:03:52:09 – 00:03:59:07
Ralph
selling over that 100 $200 range. You’re trying to sell people using social media especially,
00:03:59:07 – 00:04:02:03
Ralph
and trying to get out of that Google rat race.
00:04:02:03 – 00:04:05:06
Ralph
That’s what we see with a lot of clients that come to us, is that
00:04:05:06 – 00:04:13:12
Ralph
they’re spending a tremendous amount of money on Google, and you’ll see that in this example here, which we’re going to be talking about, as well as another case study that we’ll be talking about in future show
00:04:13:12 – 00:04:19:12
Ralph
is that 70, 80% sometimes of their spend for their overall media spend is on Google.
00:04:19:12 – 00:04:20:02
Ralph
And
00:04:20:02 – 00:04:21:19
Ralph
in that market, we’re talking about
00:04:21:19 – 00:04:24:23
Ralph
bidding for high consideration keywords. I always use the
00:04:24:23 – 00:04:28:21
Ralph
personal injury law space, which is an area where there’s a tremendous amount of competition.
00:04:28:21 – 00:04:30:01
Ralph
It doesn’t matter what year
00:04:30:01 – 00:04:30:13
Ralph
bidding on.
00:04:30:13 – 00:04:34:23
Ralph
Let’s say you’re bidding on a keyword like high end plunge pools or,
00:04:34:23 – 00:04:39:04
Ralph
high end outdoor hammocks. We’ve used the hammock example many times here
00:04:39:04 – 00:04:43:12
Ralph
on perpetual traffic. Those keywords are going to cost you 20, 30, $40 a click,
00:04:43:12 – 00:04:45:03
Ralph
which is really expensive.
00:04:45:03 – 00:04:48:11
Ralph
So plus you’re competing against everybody else that’s in that space
00:04:48:11 – 00:04:53:12
Ralph
and you’re really commoditize your brand by just using Google.
00:04:53:12 – 00:04:59:11
Ralph
So that’s why we do a lot of this in our discovery calls. And a lot of this in our strategy sessions with clients,
00:04:59:11 – 00:05:02:01
Ralph
is that we try and get them to shift away from that
00:05:02:01 – 00:05:04:17
Ralph
very bottom of funnel demand capture
00:05:04:17 – 00:05:08:03
Ralph
platforms like Google, and shift them over to more
00:05:08:03 – 00:05:15:22
Ralph
attention grabbing and demand creation platforms like meta and now programmatic with our programmatic division.
00:05:16:00 – 00:05:23:17
Ralph
So if you can combine the two together, you can really shift the majority of your budget over to these top of funnel middle of funnel channels
00:05:23:17 – 00:05:27:13
Ralph
I said, YouTube is another one of those TikTok to a lesser degree.
00:05:27:13 – 00:05:30:18
Ralph
But Google is largely relegated to the
00:05:30:18 – 00:05:37:07
Ralph
brand name keywords and most of our successful clients here brand name meaning they’re googling your name, they’re googling the name of your product,
00:05:37:07 – 00:05:42:07
Ralph
and those are brand searches which should not cost you 20, 30 or $40 a click.
00:05:42:07 – 00:05:43:04
Ralph
They should cost you
00:05:43:04 – 00:05:49:04
Ralph
in the single dollar range. If not, maybe the 10 to $20 range, depending on what your market is.
00:05:49:04 – 00:05:52:08
Ralph
So same challenge here with these guys. So
00:05:52:08 – 00:05:58:03
Ralph
they have Ncac costs. Like I said, you can get Ncac and all the marketing performance indicators over at
00:05:58:03 – 00:06:00:05
Ralph
two 11.com/mpi,
00:06:00:05 – 00:06:01:23
Ralph
there are Ncac and the United States
00:06:01:23 – 00:06:06:13
Ralph
was about $2,800, $2,800 to purchase a new customer.
00:06:06:13 – 00:06:09:22
Ralph
And in the Canadian market it was $1,700.
00:06:09:22 – 00:06:14:04
Ralph
almost a two fold difference in the U.S. market versus the Canadian market.
00:06:14:04 – 00:06:19:18
Ralph
One of the reasons is, is because of their mix was largely on Google, which is going to cost you more
00:06:19:18 – 00:06:24:00
Ralph
in the U.S. markets, typically, versus Canada. Obviously, it depends on your individual market.
00:06:24:00 – 00:06:24:10
Ralph
So
00:06:24:10 – 00:06:27:00
Ralph
same brand paying nearly double to acquire,
00:06:27:00 – 00:06:31:19
Ralph
in one market versus the other, which is one of the problems that they definitely had.
00:06:31:21 – 00:06:35:01
Ralph
They also had a problem with attribution. So a meaningful,
00:06:35:01 – 00:06:37:01
Ralph
a large share of their revenue
00:06:37:01 – 00:06:38:10
Ralph
is closed by phone.
00:06:38:10 – 00:06:42:23
Ralph
So this might be your business if you’re selling 10 to $20,000
00:06:42:23 – 00:06:46:07
Ralph
pieces of equipment in this particular case, in the health and wellness space,
00:06:46:07 – 00:06:47:13
Ralph
or if you’re selling
00:06:47:13 – 00:06:52:19
Ralph
$30,000 kitchens, you probably need a sales person to make that sale.
00:06:52:19 – 00:06:54:03
Ralph
That’s not usually,
00:06:54:03 – 00:07:01:13
Ralph
the book of schedule calls. So a lot of these types of businesses are e-commerce. Yes, but they’re also lead generation at the same time. So
00:07:01:13 – 00:07:03:08
Ralph
the combination of those two things
00:07:03:08 – 00:07:17:20
Ralph
gets confusing from a digital marketing perspective, because as soon as you go offline and the salesperson is actually on a zoom call and then enters the sale into your CRM, you need a way to be able to link that back to the platform and give the platform.
00:07:17:20 – 00:07:18:12
Ralph
In this case,
00:07:18:12 – 00:07:19:22
Ralph
they’re largely using Google,
00:07:19:22 – 00:07:22:20
Ralph
recommendations to shift most of that budget over meta.
00:07:22:20 – 00:07:34:02
Ralph
the be able to link that data through an offline conversion is extremely important. And we’re not doing this. So that’s one of the problems that they had. So really didn’t know which platform was pulling for them.
00:07:34:02 – 00:07:37:15
Ralph
They’re doing some paid social traffic obviously like I said on meta.
00:07:37:17 – 00:07:44:17
Ralph
But the majority of their spend really is on Google. And this is a problem that we see often times, with these types of businesses.
00:07:44:17 – 00:07:50:05
Ralph
Google’s a great way to start. Google is an absolutely fabulous way of using high value keywords,
00:07:50:05 – 00:07:55:12
Ralph
high intent based keywords for your niche to prove that you actually have a product that is meaningful.
00:07:55:12 – 00:07:57:23
Ralph
However, as a long term growth strategy,
00:07:57:23 – 00:07:58:12
Ralph
faulty.
00:07:58:12 – 00:08:03:04
Ralph
So and that’s the reason why we’ve shifted. And even John Moran, who used to be known as a Google guy
00:08:03:04 – 00:08:06:00
Ralph
now our chief strategist here at tier 11.
00:08:06:00 – 00:08:09:14
Ralph
The majority of our spend now is really is 80, 20,
00:08:09:14 – 00:08:12:08
Ralph
meta top of funnel, like I said, programmatic as well.
00:08:12:10 – 00:08:15:18
Ralph
Then Google is that remaining 10 to 20% in most cases.
00:08:15:18 – 00:08:19:05
Ralph
So like I said, most of the is most of the sales actually happen
00:08:19:05 – 00:08:28:19
Ralph
by phone or through a manually created draft order is what they call it, which falls outside of the ad attribution platform. So
00:08:28:19 – 00:08:30:20
Ralph
in many cases, there’s no way
00:08:30:20 – 00:08:31:10
Ralph
to
00:08:31:10 – 00:08:37:01
Ralph
have meta determine the sale if the sale is done manually in an offline way,
00:08:37:01 – 00:08:39:14
Ralph
unless you do offline
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Ralph
conversions, which is one of the recommendations that we make here.
00:08:42:16 – 00:08:50:23
Ralph
Sometimes that is just a Zapier integration from the CRM back into the database. But even if you’re not optimizing for the sale, let’s say you’re actually
00:08:50:23 – 00:08:58:00
Ralph
optimizing your advertising for booking a schedule call or book a schedule call. We have numerous clients that are in the health care space,
00:08:58:00 – 00:09:00:06
Ralph
two in particular, that I think of right off the bat.
00:09:00:06 – 00:09:01:16
Ralph
They sell
00:09:01:16 – 00:09:03:14
Ralph
thousand dollar plus
00:09:03:14 – 00:09:05:08
Ralph
programs and treatments
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Ralph
for a variety of different conditions.
00:09:07:02 – 00:09:12:19
Ralph
Ones in the refractory depression niche. Another one is in sort of the physical therapy niche,
00:09:12:19 – 00:09:14:18
Ralph
and another one is actually in the spa space.
00:09:14:18 – 00:09:15:06
Ralph
So
00:09:15:06 – 00:09:17:16
Ralph
in each one of those cases, sometimes the
00:09:17:16 – 00:09:21:18
Ralph
the actual sale is manually entered by a salesperson or maybe by a consultant.
00:09:21:18 – 00:09:22:18
Ralph
So that information is
00:09:22:18 – 00:09:23:17
Ralph
really important to have
00:09:23:17 – 00:09:36:06
Ralph
because you want to be able to pipe that back into the platforms, but you oftentimes don’t want to optimize for it. And that’s sort of the question that the growth strategists here at year 11 figure out in very short order, as well as our tech team, to be able to optimize the advertising
00:09:36:07 – 00:09:42:21
Ralph
we can actually make good decisions on which platforms are working together in order to create the sale.
00:09:42:21 – 00:09:47:12
Ralph
So in this case, they were making six figure monthly ad spend decisions
00:09:47:12 – 00:09:49:03
Ralph
without seeing where any of the money
00:09:49:03 – 00:09:51:09
Ralph
was actually really working in their ads.
00:09:51:09 – 00:09:55:03
Ralph
Another issue is that they have misdirected traffic. So paid social traffic
00:09:55:03 – 00:10:04:02
Ralph
was landing on their home page in many cases and not specific pages or not pages that were specific to the advertising
00:10:04:02 – 00:10:08:10
Ralph
and just sort of a generalized information page. So even when people would click,
00:10:08:10 – 00:10:09:11
Ralph
they would typically click
00:10:09:11 – 00:10:11:17
Ralph
and just gather more information.
00:10:11:17 – 00:10:15:14
Ralph
The vast majority of folks, though, remember, when you’re running on
00:10:15:14 – 00:10:19:21
Ralph
programmatic, let’s say native advertising, we’ve used the example for the very high end,
00:10:19:21 – 00:10:21:07
Ralph
dog product niche.
00:10:21:07 – 00:10:23:14
Ralph
We can’t say their name either, but very,
00:10:23:14 – 00:10:24:10
Ralph
very high end.
00:10:24:10 – 00:10:27:00
Ralph
They’re selling a $1,200 pet accessory.
00:10:27:00 – 00:10:31:04
Ralph
So the majority of the spend in that case is
00:10:31:04 – 00:10:33:14
Ralph
on ads that have no click whatsoever.
00:10:33:14 – 00:10:38:22
Ralph
a lot of people will just scroll and watch the video and never actually click. They’ll hover over
00:10:38:22 – 00:10:42:16
Ralph
the videos that we do. There’s creative diversification strategy that we deploy.
00:10:42:16 – 00:10:44:11
Ralph
And we’ve talked about here many times on the show.
00:10:44:11 – 00:10:45:17
Ralph
Oftentimes you don’t get a click.
00:10:45:17 – 00:10:50:19
Ralph
but when they do clicks they have dedicated pages that are specific to that ad. So
00:10:50:19 – 00:10:54:19
Ralph
when you’re sending most of your traffic to a generic home page, it’s a good place to start.
00:10:54:19 – 00:11:02:00
Ralph
But it’s also another potential choke point for you because you really do want your ads to match the experience that they have.
00:11:02:00 – 00:11:03:03
Ralph
Once they actually do, click.
00:11:03:03 – 00:11:07:04
Ralph
I will say this, however, a lot of brands get caught up on that after the click
00:11:07:04 – 00:11:13:13
Ralph
when in fact only 1 to 2% or maybe 3%, let’s say 5% of visitors actually click.
00:11:13:15 – 00:11:17:03
Ralph
Think about it that way. If you have 100% of your traffic, 100 people see your AD
00:11:17:03 – 00:11:18:02
Ralph
95
00:11:18:02 – 00:11:20:08
Ralph
stop watch, never click
00:11:20:08 – 00:11:22:02
Ralph
five actually do click.
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Ralph
You’re only serving the five that do click.
00:11:23:21 – 00:11:24:20
Ralph
Now those people
00:11:24:20 – 00:11:25:21
Ralph
ostensibly have
00:11:25:21 – 00:11:26:16
Ralph
higher intent
00:11:26:16 – 00:11:27:10
Ralph
on your product.
00:11:27:10 – 00:11:33:05
Ralph
That could very well be the case. However, what are you going to do about the 95%? That’s where most of the market actually exists.
00:11:33:05 – 00:11:36:09
Ralph
And that market is what we call is in the zone of indifference.
00:11:36:09 – 00:11:41:06
Ralph
They really haven’t made a decision. They’re not really maybe interested in this particular case,
00:11:41:06 – 00:11:44:13
Ralph
This premium home wellness system brand,
00:11:44:13 – 00:11:48:13
Ralph
they’re not really in the market for it. So that’s how you actually gather their attention is
00:11:48:13 – 00:11:50:04
Ralph
through creative diversification
00:11:50:04 – 00:11:52:15
Ralph
in the news feed to interrupt them,
00:11:52:15 – 00:11:56:07
Ralph
get their attention, and then continue to show them different ways in which
00:11:56:07 – 00:12:02:17
Ralph
they might actually consider then maybe taking the next step, which is to click and actually check you out or do a Google search.
00:12:02:17 – 00:12:05:12
Ralph
Or if you sell on Amazon, head on over to Amazon and maybe even
00:12:05:12 – 00:12:06:07
Ralph
buy your product
00:12:06:07 – 00:12:07:04
Ralph
at that point in time.
00:12:07:04 – 00:12:09:23
Ralph
like I said, a bit of misdirected traffic here. So
00:12:09:23 – 00:12:13:21
Ralph
also the next problem that they had is they have that what we refer to was a creative bottleneck.
00:12:13:21 – 00:12:18:09
Ralph
This is sort of a quality problem, not a supply problem. They actually have a fair amount of creative,
00:12:18:09 – 00:12:22:01
Ralph
and they’ve got actually a backlog of really strong footage. But
00:12:22:01 – 00:12:23:05
Ralph
this is very
00:12:23:05 – 00:12:25:00
Ralph
typical in a lot of
00:12:25:00 – 00:12:26:06
Ralph
businesses that are
00:12:26:06 – 00:12:27:17
Ralph
dedicated to
00:12:27:17 – 00:12:34:21
Ralph
their brand, which they should be first and foremost is if you’re too brand centric and you’re too focused on your brand,
00:12:34:21 – 00:12:39:16
Ralph
you might miss some of the best opportunities to market that brand because you’re stuck
00:12:39:16 – 00:12:40:09
Ralph
in this.
00:12:40:09 – 00:12:45:20
Ralph
Endless loop of yes, I want to sell more of my stuff, but I want everything to look perfect.
00:12:45:20 – 00:12:49:22
Ralph
Sometimes the best brands that perform on
00:12:49:22 – 00:12:55:12
Ralph
meta, for example, or the best performance brands, are the ones that use what we refer to as low fi
00:12:55:12 – 00:12:56:02
Ralph
or.
00:12:56:02 – 00:12:57:23
Ralph
More raw video
00:12:57:23 – 00:13:02:22
Ralph
and this runs counter to a lot of brands that want to have a very appeal,
00:13:02:22 – 00:13:05:04
Ralph
a beautiful appeal and a beautiful
00:13:05:04 – 00:13:07:03
Ralph
impression to would be clients.
00:13:07:03 – 00:13:07:16
Ralph
So
00:13:07:16 – 00:13:09:01
Ralph
in this case,
00:13:09:01 – 00:13:16:01
Ralph
the founder was getting involved in some of the editing of some of the videos, and that was definitely a choke point. And the team was really wary
00:13:16:01 – 00:13:19:13
Ralph
of outside script writers who might not know the market,
00:13:19:13 – 00:13:23:12
Ralph
thinking that, you know, an agency might lean on AI to create the brand voice.
00:13:23:12 – 00:13:35:15
Ralph
So they were very squeamish about this sort of thing, but it was hampering their growth. At a certain point, you really do have to sort of let go of some of that. There is a balance between the two, and we have plenty of brands that we work with here at year 11 that
00:13:35:15 – 00:13:37:16
Ralph
are brand first for sure, like
00:13:37:16 – 00:13:38:11
Ralph
very important to them.
00:13:38:11 – 00:13:39:07
Ralph
The founder is
00:13:39:07 – 00:13:40:00
Ralph
very involved,
00:13:40:00 – 00:13:41:23
Ralph
which is great. We love that.
00:13:41:23 – 00:13:45:21
Ralph
However, you also have to look at what’s going to convert, what’s going to be best for the business,
00:13:45:21 – 00:13:48:19
Ralph
how are you going to achieve your goals? And oftentimes it’s not
00:13:48:19 – 00:13:57:18
Ralph
with beautiful super Bowl style ads, they’re often just shot with an iPhone very granular, very grainy, very low fi,
00:13:57:18 – 00:13:59:09
Ralph
and we’ll leave some links in the show.
00:13:59:09 – 00:14:00:21
Ralph
Notes are examples of that as well.
00:14:00:21 – 00:14:05:05
Ralph
And last but not least, one of the big problems was trust. They had a prior agency,
00:14:05:05 – 00:14:07:01
Ralph
left them burned very,
00:14:07:01 – 00:14:09:15
Ralph
you know, this this sort of came out in the call itself.
00:14:09:15 – 00:14:15:18
Ralph
They were shuffled around by this team. This is probably you like you start with an agency and
00:14:15:18 – 00:14:16:10
Ralph
they put
00:14:16:10 – 00:14:21:22
Ralph
all stars on it first, and all of a sudden, the next thing you know, you’re dealing with, like, a second or third or fourth tier,
00:14:21:22 – 00:14:26:04
Ralph
you know, base level person who maybe is new to media buying or new to creative
00:14:26:04 – 00:14:29:06
Ralph
and so they were shuffled around that way or you’re shipped.
00:14:29:07 – 00:14:36:21
Ralph
Nothing wrong with offshore. Oftentimes there’s a negative connotation with that. So they had this issue with previous agency that they did work
00:14:36:21 – 00:14:49:08
Ralph
with that, a lot of turnover, really slow execution, and low confidence and just sort of outside help. So coming to us was sort of a big step for them. So there’s definitely that issue that you’re probably facing if you’re considering.
00:14:49:08 – 00:14:56:07
Ralph
Figuring out a better way to market your company, whether it’s internally or whether it’s through an agency, this is definitely an issue that we face, quite a bit.
00:14:56:07 – 00:14:59:03
Ralph
like I said, the biggest problem here is Ncac escalation.
00:14:59:03 – 00:15:02:09
Ralph
They’re up at $2,800, which you would figure if
00:15:02:09 – 00:15:10:21
Ralph
you know you’ve got a 10 to 15, maybe even $20,000 purchase, it’s actually not a bad Ncac number. But that number has continued to rise.
00:15:10:21 – 00:15:15:15
Ralph
It probably has a lot to do with the fact that they’re overreliant on the Google ad platform.
00:15:15:15 – 00:15:17:19
Ralph
Sort of the demand capture platforms, especially
00:15:17:19 – 00:15:18:23
Ralph
as opposed to
00:15:18:23 – 00:15:25:05
Ralph
demand creation platforms like top of funnel with meta programmatic as well as on YouTube.
00:15:25:05 – 00:15:30:05
Ralph
So the stakes are pretty high with this business. So they’re spending 115 and $120,000
00:15:30:05 – 00:15:30:18
Ralph
a month
00:15:30:18 – 00:15:32:23
Ralph
for a national ad campaign,
00:15:32:23 – 00:15:39:21
Ralph
and running it largely on instinct, without really any solid data they’re relying on in platform metrics.
00:15:39:21 – 00:15:47:20
Ralph
CPA as well as Roas, specifically on meta as well as on Google, and not really knowing a lot of those platforms are double counting.
00:15:47:20 – 00:15:51:00
Ralph
Every platform wants to take credit for the last click. Every
00:15:51:00 – 00:15:54:03
Ralph
every platform wants to take credit for the sale as much as possible.
00:15:54:03 – 00:16:00:07
Ralph
What they need and the what we immediately would diagnose here is, first off, you’ve got a gap in attribution
00:16:00:07 – 00:16:01:15
Ralph
and that needs to be
00:16:01:15 – 00:16:03:23
Ralph
filled as soon as possible. So
00:16:03:23 – 00:16:10:10
Ralph
fortunately they’re running on Shopify, which is a really easy integration with tier 11 data suite or Wicked Reports.
00:16:10:10 – 00:16:14:03
Ralph
know, even if you’re using any sort of outside attribution platform like,
00:16:14:03 – 00:16:26:02
Ralph
triple well or North Beam or I wouldn’t say Google Analytics, don’t even bother with Google Analytics. It’s very good at seeing how people travel within your website, but horrible on traffic
00:16:26:02 – 00:16:29:10
Ralph
because there’s just too much direct, unattributed unknown that’s on
00:16:29:10 – 00:16:31:13
Ralph
Google Analytics. Don’t even consider those.
00:16:31:13 – 00:16:37:03
Ralph
I mean, any platform is better than no platform. So the reason I mention those other ones is because we’ve used both of those.
00:16:37:03 – 00:16:40:12
Ralph
actually investors in North Beam. So I feel it’s a really good platform.
00:16:40:12 – 00:16:40:18
Ralph
But
00:16:40:18 – 00:16:42:15
Ralph
for businesses this size,
00:16:42:15 – 00:16:45:13
Ralph
the 7 to 100 million range,
00:16:45:13 – 00:16:49:19
Ralph
the best solution that we’ve found is wicked reports. First off,
00:16:49:19 – 00:16:56:04
Ralph
just doing a major upgrade on their interface, which is tremendous as Scott, the CEO who’s been on the show here plenty of times,
00:16:56:04 – 00:16:59:10
Ralph
but also we add in our own edge tech server onto that.
00:16:59:10 – 00:17:01:02
Ralph
We call that tier 11 data suite.
00:17:01:02 – 00:17:08:01
Ralph
And then we layer in edge tag technology on top of that. So the data that we get inside the interface of the tier 11 data suite is
00:17:08:01 – 00:17:10:02
Ralph
now 100% match when there is a click. And
00:17:10:02 – 00:17:10:12
Ralph
that,
00:17:10:12 – 00:17:13:15
Ralph
none of that data that you see inside the tier 11 data suite is modeled.
00:17:13:15 – 00:17:16:19
Ralph
Whereas with Triple Well and with North Beam,
00:17:16:19 – 00:17:23:03
Ralph
vast majority of those clicks that you see are actually modeled clicks, which is helpful.
00:17:23:03 – 00:17:29:14
Ralph
Don’t get me wrong, it’s better than nothing. However, if you can get actual data, that’s what tier 11 data Suite does
00:17:29:14 – 00:17:35:14
Ralph
in concert with Wicked Reports is our partner on that. So that’s the first thing that we’ll do is we’ll install that. So
00:17:35:14 – 00:17:40:03
Ralph
you’ll now be able to see exactly where the click is coming from on all platforms
00:17:40:03 – 00:17:41:00
Ralph
your online data suite.
00:17:41:00 – 00:17:43:00
Ralph
And we can reports do not track
00:17:43:00 – 00:17:44:02
Ralph
views through conversions.
00:17:44:02 – 00:17:47:12
Ralph
However that is going to change within wicked reports I am told
00:17:47:12 – 00:17:52:23
Ralph
within the next six months. So there is going to be additional features I think, that are really going to differentiate,
00:17:52:23 – 00:18:01:09
Ralph
us even more so we can do a lot without that view conversion. But when you actually do have the click capturing it, nearly 100% of the time,
00:18:01:09 – 00:18:05:12
Ralph
then with an actual click, not a models click like the platforms do,
00:18:05:12 – 00:18:08:14
Ralph
it really is enables you to be able to make very
00:18:08:14 – 00:18:10:07
Ralph
well educated decisions
00:18:10:07 – 00:18:11:17
Ralph
on media spend
00:18:11:17 – 00:18:13:05
Ralph
ads ad sets
00:18:13:05 – 00:18:17:16
Ralph
less so with audiences, to a certain degree, campaigns, all of that
00:18:17:16 – 00:18:18:16
Ralph
sort of thing. So
00:18:18:16 – 00:18:22:14
Ralph
what are the other parts to this is, like I said, there’s phone sales and draft orders.
00:18:22:14 – 00:18:25:00
Ralph
Those are all invisible in the ad platform. So
00:18:25:00 – 00:18:32:18
Ralph
The ad platform itself is optimizing for a book scheduled call in some cases, or an opt in and other cases
00:18:32:18 – 00:18:37:20
Ralph
you’d want to figure out in the continuum of events, from the actual click to the website,
00:18:37:20 – 00:18:42:23
Ralph
to the application, to the next best step prior to
00:18:42:23 – 00:18:46:05
Ralph
the actual sale of the product. Usually is
00:18:46:05 – 00:18:59:20
Ralph
A booked call that is attended so a booked scheduled attended call. Oftentimes in a scenario like this with an e-commerce brand high consideration, we’re talking, you know, tens of thousands of dollars here potentially
00:18:59:20 – 00:19:01:09
Ralph
far as the average order value.
00:19:01:09 – 00:19:05:08
Ralph
Usually that’s the event that we try and optimize for. Obviously, our growth strategist
00:19:05:08 – 00:19:05:15
Ralph
would,
00:19:05:15 – 00:19:08:21
Ralph
dive deep into that as well as our tech folks,
00:19:08:21 – 00:19:12:21
Ralph
insight tier 11 and determine exactly which event we want to optimize for.
00:19:12:23 – 00:19:17:20
Ralph
However, having said that, we still want to import the data for the actual sale
00:19:17:20 – 00:19:19:04
Ralph
from those phone orders.
00:19:19:04 – 00:19:21:15
Ralph
And I believe these guys were on HubSpot,
00:19:21:15 – 00:19:23:09
Ralph
I’d have to go back and check my notes, but
00:19:23:09 – 00:19:33:14
Ralph
Any CRM can be imported. The data from that CRM can be imported back into the platforms. It might not be the event that you’re optimizing your ads for,
00:19:33:14 – 00:19:34:00
Ralph
but
00:19:34:00 – 00:19:35:04
Ralph
that information is
00:19:35:04 – 00:19:40:20
Ralph
very helpful for the platform to be able to optimize and find more people like those people
00:19:40:20 – 00:19:44:16
Ralph
you want buyers you don’t want people that just click and fill out forms and never buy.
00:19:44:16 – 00:19:47:08
Ralph
You want the algorithm to target within
00:19:47:08 – 00:19:50:00
Ralph
the audience that it’s targeting with your creative
00:19:50:00 – 00:19:50:22
Ralph
and your ads.
00:19:50:22 – 00:20:01:09
Ralph
Using creative diversification, you want the algorithm to know which people are the ones that look like people, that are the ones that have bought from you before. So you want to add in that data, you want to type that in.
00:20:01:15 – 00:20:07:07
Ralph
We usually do that either with a Zapier integration or a direct integration. Some cases it’s a download.
00:20:07:07 – 00:20:09:00
Ralph
physical download that we then upload
00:20:09:00 – 00:20:11:02
Ralph
into the platforms themselves. So at least
00:20:11:02 – 00:20:12:10
Ralph
meta and then
00:20:12:10 – 00:20:17:04
Ralph
if we’re running ads on programmatic, the same sort of thing happens there. Same thing happens over on Google.
00:20:17:04 – 00:20:33:12
Ralph
So that was what we would do with the attribution gap immediately. The second thing we would do is we would look at all the individual pages that they’re sending traffic to and analyze exactly which page and which ad are the ones that are getting the most either clicks, views, impressions,
00:20:33:12 – 00:20:35:22
Ralph
and also potential sales
00:20:35:22 – 00:20:37:10
Ralph
through the platform itself.
00:20:37:10 – 00:20:40:03
Ralph
So we’ve shown the number of different landing pages.
00:20:40:03 – 00:20:43:02
Ralph
Most of the traffic was actually going to the home page.
00:20:43:02 – 00:20:43:16
Ralph
And
00:20:43:17 – 00:20:49:05
Ralph
Most of the ad creative did not match what was being said on the home page,
00:20:49:05 – 00:20:57:22
Ralph
and in many cases the home page. As we were analyzing this is you had to do multiple scrolls to actually get to the
00:20:57:22 – 00:20:59:04
Ralph
application box,
00:20:59:04 – 00:21:05:03
Ralph
which sometimes is a good thing, sometimes it’s not. In most cases you want this to be above the fold.
00:21:05:03 – 00:21:07:21
Ralph
Now, the argument could also be made that
00:21:07:21 – 00:21:19:00
Ralph
someone who clicks on your ad and then checks you out scrolls down to three thumb scrolls. Am doing this in a mobile phone here, or a click on a scroll on a desktop.
00:21:19:00 – 00:21:25:12
Ralph
That individual is more interested in potentially buying or more interested in your product. That argument could be made.
00:21:25:12 – 00:21:27:18
Ralph
So this is something that we would definitely need to test.
00:21:27:18 – 00:21:32:01
Ralph
We would need to test the application at the top of the page, middle of the page, bottom of the page,
00:21:32:01 – 00:21:35:15
Ralph
and also send traffic specifically, especially on programmatic
00:21:35:15 – 00:21:47:23
Ralph
And on all the native platforms, as well as anything that we would do for connected TV. If we actually did do that here, we would send it to a dedicated landing page, dedicated sales page specific to those platforms.
00:21:47:23 – 00:21:55:18
Ralph
So the last thing we would do here, after we do those first two things, are probably we would do this immediately upon onboarding
00:21:55:18 – 00:22:02:02
Ralph
is have a real deep dive, look into all of their creatives, all of their video specifically.
00:22:02:02 – 00:22:06:15
Ralph
And, we’ll leave links in the show notes to a couple of clients that we’ve worked with in the past.
00:22:06:15 – 00:22:22:22
Ralph
So you can get a better idea of how do you actually sell a $4,000 hammock? How do you sell a $25,000 outdoor kitchen? I can’t name specifically what this brand is, but this is a premium home wellness system. It’s an outdoor system very similar to those two other products
00:22:22:22 – 00:22:28:10
Ralph
in the same space. So the creatives that I’m going to put over are perpetual traffic.com.
00:22:28:12 – 00:22:31:18
Ralph
Definitely check that out. You’ll see exactly what we’re talking about here. And
00:22:31:18 – 00:22:36:11
Ralph
both really good examples of true creative diversification where we’re using
00:22:36:11 – 00:22:41:12
Ralph
founders ads explaining the difference between their brand and why they started their brand.
00:22:41:12 – 00:23:00:20
Ralph
the story behind why they started it, what their mission is, all of that those are sort of founders story videos as well as lifestyle. This could be your life. Look at how your life could be if you lived in this outdoor kitchen. Note see how much fun you’d be having with all of your friends. A nice wide angle shot.
00:23:00:20 – 00:23:07:21
Ralph
We’ll show you links in the show. Notes of what exactly what I’m talking about. Those are very good. Top of funnel awareness style
00:23:07:21 – 00:23:09:15
Ralph
ads or creative
00:23:09:15 – 00:23:17:02
Ralph
that engage people, get them interested in the brand so that once they sort of stop the scroll and watch the video, even with the sound off,
00:23:17:02 – 00:23:22:05
Ralph
the algorithms will then be able to serve more ads similar to that with different types of angles to it.
00:23:22:07 – 00:23:26:01
Ralph
What’s different about your brand versus the competition?
00:23:26:01 – 00:23:28:20
Ralph
We refer to those as us versus them type of ads.
00:23:28:20 – 00:23:31:11
Ralph
Maybe it’s a product demo ad.
00:23:31:11 – 00:23:37:21
Ralph
we have a company that sells premium umbrellas for the beach, how you actually set this thing up.
00:23:37:21 – 00:23:43:13
Ralph
So product demo and then people actually enjoying their day on the beach as a result of this specific product.
00:23:43:13 – 00:23:44:21
Ralph
Customer testimonials,
00:23:44:21 – 00:23:49:06
Ralph
how people love your products. Like you could do a montage of your best customers or
00:23:49:06 – 00:23:57:18
Ralph
email your customer list and give them an incentive to give you a customer testimonial with a link that’s very easily shareable. All of that sort of stuff.
00:23:57:18 – 00:24:02:00
Ralph
very good. Top of funnel, middle of funnel. We even use AI ads in some cases.
00:24:02:00 – 00:24:08:20
Ralph
We absolutely do use AI in all of our advertising. It’s not typically the most important type of ad,
00:24:08:20 – 00:24:20:09
Ralph
Like, for one of our clients who sells water bottles, an animated water bottle, talking water bottle was one of their best, highest performing or attention grabbing, highest spend ads.
00:24:20:09 – 00:24:23:09
Ralph
Another type of that is a features in benefit.
00:24:23:09 – 00:24:36:09
Ralph
You could probably think of this right off the top of your head. Like, what are the features of your product and the benefits? You can do a video about that with a talking head. Or you can do that as an image at face to camera ads, obviously doing this sort of thing. If you’re watching us over on YouTube,
00:24:36:09 – 00:24:42:06
Ralph
this is perfect for this type of environment, face to camera people talking about the benefit, either it’s,
00:24:42:06 – 00:24:45:14
Ralph
a creator that’s a paid creator that’s doing a video on it.
00:24:45:20 – 00:25:01:20
Ralph
You’ll see some of the examples that are going leave in the show notes here. But the point is this is that all of these types of ads are different types of creative that we refer to as creative diversification, none of which they’re doing right now. And when we looked at their YouTube channel, we looked at their Facebook ads.
00:25:02:01 – 00:25:02:18
Ralph
We saw
00:25:02:18 – 00:25:11:23
Ralph
a tremendous amount of content over on their YouTube channel. And then when I checked their meta ads inside their meta ads library, none of that was being used.
00:25:11:23 – 00:25:16:16
Ralph
So not even in its raw form. So they have the capability of being able to do it. They have a lot of
00:25:16:16 – 00:25:19:10
Ralph
sort of raw footage that we would then
00:25:19:10 – 00:25:30:13
Ralph
from a strategy standpoint, our growth strategies and our creative strategists would work together in order to create ways in which to take a lot of that raw video and post produce it with
00:25:30:13 – 00:25:35:19
Ralph
B-roll, with text overlays, even adding in creators as part of the content.
00:25:35:19 – 00:25:39:23
Ralph
Sort of in the lower right hand corner, you’ll see some of those ads over a perpetual traffic.com
00:25:40:01 – 00:25:41:02
Ralph
really important. So
00:25:41:02 – 00:25:44:05
Ralph
in most cases, for most brands that come to us,
00:25:44:05 – 00:25:54:08
Ralph
we find that up to 30 creatives per month is sort of the bare minimum right now in order to really be able to capture awareness top of funnel, as well as start to convince
00:25:54:08 – 00:25:55:10
Ralph
middle of the funnel.
00:25:55:12 – 00:26:02:10
Ralph
So you’re capturing the awareness for a lot of these types of ads, and then you’re getting the consideration and sort of middle of funnel.
00:26:02:10 – 00:26:15:06
Ralph
And oftentimes, John Moran talks about this many times on this show. We’ll even split out our ad sets into top of funnel, middle of funnel, even bottom of funnel, bottom of funnel ads are usually something that is a call to action.
00:26:15:06 – 00:26:16:12
Ralph
Hey get this. Today
00:26:16:12 – 00:26:34:01
Ralph
I actually purchased a product on Instagram the other day. It was one of these types of ads. It was actually a whitelisting ad. It was done through an affiliate for the products that I purchased. And on his side, he was offering a 40% discount and that was very bottom of funnel. After I consumed
00:26:34:01 – 00:26:39:00
Ralph
or watched at least a dozen or so videos, says just like a skincare products
00:26:39:00 – 00:26:39:15
Ralph
that I purchased.
00:26:39:15 – 00:26:42:11
Ralph
But anyway, I probably watched 10 or 15 of these videos. So
00:26:42:11 – 00:26:45:14
Ralph
falling into the same sort of sequence here
00:26:45:14 – 00:26:54:02
Ralph
under $100 purchase, I ended up buying $119. The thing I think it was only like a $40 purchase, but I ended up getting like a three pack, so I
00:26:54:02 – 00:26:56:18
Ralph
totally fell for this whole thing. They did creative diversification
00:26:56:18 – 00:26:59:01
Ralph
extremely well and so far I’m very happy with product.
00:26:59:02 – 00:27:00:12
Ralph
The point is this is that
00:27:00:12 – 00:27:03:20
Ralph
very bottom of funnel typically is where most brands live.
00:27:03:20 – 00:27:09:16
Ralph
And when we look at ad accounts and when we’re looking at this ad account for this, premium home wellness systems company,
00:27:09:16 – 00:27:13:06
Ralph
most of their ads, I would say 90% of their ads were very bottom of funnel.
00:27:13:06 – 00:27:14:08
Ralph
And represented a
00:27:14:08 – 00:27:19:08
Ralph
great opportunity for creative diversification and less reliance over on Google.
00:27:19:08 – 00:27:24:23
Ralph
And so that would be the last portion of our recommendations here is to slowly shift budget.
00:27:24:23 – 00:27:27:18
Ralph
leave a link in the show notes for a case study that we did
00:27:27:18 – 00:27:32:09
Ralph
with, Scott from Wicked Reports, where we shifted budget on Amazon
00:27:32:09 – 00:27:33:18
Ralph
as well as on Google.
00:27:33:18 – 00:27:36:17
Ralph
Nearly 90% of their ad spend was shifted
00:27:36:17 – 00:27:43:20
Ralph
from 60,000 and $50,000 a month and ad spend down to less than $5,000 per month on both of those platforms.
00:27:43:22 – 00:27:55:05
Ralph
All of that spend was then pushed over to top of funnel channels like native advertising, connected TV, and of course, meta. And this is exactly what we would do here. We wouldn’t do it all at once.
00:27:55:05 – 00:27:58:23
Ralph
We did that over, 4 to 5 months period, sort of slowly,
00:27:58:23 – 00:28:03:23
Ralph
because a lot of those high value keywords that you’re probably relying on in your marketing are paying the bills.
00:28:03:23 – 00:28:10:15
Ralph
You don’t want to cut it completely. You want it to be sort of a slow shift, and you need an agency that knows what they’re doing to be able to do that for you.
00:28:10:15 – 00:28:12:22
Ralph
So last but not least, volume of creative.
00:28:12:22 – 00:28:15:16
Ralph
The biggest challenge I think we’re going to have here is
00:28:15:16 – 00:28:21:01
Ralph
founder led marketing. Oftentimes they get in their own way. And yes, there is
00:28:21:01 – 00:28:23:23
Ralph
I’m guilty of this as well as a founder. So
00:28:23:23 – 00:28:29:16
Ralph
In their desire to maintain a very high level of professionalism on their brand,
00:28:29:16 – 00:28:32:22
Ralph
they oftentimes sacrifice the performance side
00:28:32:22 – 00:28:33:18
Ralph
of the marketing.
00:28:33:18 – 00:28:34:07
Ralph
And
00:28:34:07 – 00:28:37:22
Ralph
these guys in this business is a performance marketing company.
00:28:37:22 – 00:28:41:17
Ralph
They sell in a very competitive space, very high end purchase,
00:28:41:17 – 00:28:44:08
Ralph
and oftentimes it’s the less pretty ads.
00:28:44:08 – 00:28:44:17
Ralph
It’s,
00:28:44:17 – 00:28:49:20
Ralph
in the affiliate world, the better the better, which means the more out your ads are.
00:28:49:20 – 00:28:52:04
Ralph
Oftentimes those are the most effective ads.
00:28:52:04 – 00:28:58:12
Ralph
that’s something that we would have to work on with these guys, but they definitely have the raw materials in order to do it. Really super great product.
00:28:58:12 – 00:29:04:17
Ralph
Really excited to work with them. Premium home wellness systems. Space 10 to $20,000,
00:29:04:17 – 00:29:07:14
Ralph
getting an income of $2,800 in the US.
00:29:07:14 – 00:29:22:03
Ralph
I would say within six months we could have that cost to acquire a customer. If we follow the playbook that we talk about here. And, hopefully they’ll do another case study here on the show to explain exactly what those shifts were and how we did it, and what the results were.
00:29:22:03 – 00:29:27:12
Ralph
So I hope you enjoyed this week’s show. Make sure that you subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts
00:29:27:12 – 00:29:39:20
Ralph
on whatever platform they love most. Leave us a comment. Leave us a rating and a review. We’d love to hear those. We’ll read those out on air here as well. And of course, all the links and all the references that I talked about
00:29:39:20 – 00:29:43:02
Ralph
are available over on the show notes at Perpetual Traffic Ecom.
00:29:43:02 – 00:29:45:06
Ralph
And of course, if you need our help for any of this,
00:29:45:06 – 00:29:49:18
Ralph
can head on over to tier 11.com/plier. Just check us out at two 11.com.
00:29:49:18 – 00:29:54:07
Ralph
Happy to help you scaling growth through metrics that matter and growth that scales.
00:29:54:07 – 00:29:55:10
Ralph
So until next show, see yah!
